What Does The Jewish Faith Believe About Hell Fire?

[zotah]

I was wondering if anyone knew about the belief of the Jewish faith when it came to the Belief of eternal Hell Fire.

Since they don't except the New Testament. I was wondering what they actually believe the old testiment says concerning Hell?

Comparing Luke Chapter 19-31 "There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz'arus, full of sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz'arus in his bosom. 24 And he called out, 'Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz'arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz'arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' 27 And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' 29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31 He said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'"

Rev. 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Rev. 20:10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

What is there belief.

Thanks
Zotah

:amen

 

[Adullam]

Gey Hinom (gehena) is a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem through the dung gate where refuse was burned.

 

[zotah]

Thanks Adullam for your reply,

Are you saying that Hell fire the way we as Christians believe it does not exist in the Jewish faith?

Is eternal torture and fire everlasting listed anywhere in the old testiment?

Is hell fire only a new testement understanding?

I would love to hear your or anyone elses comments?

Thanks,
Zotah

 

[Vince]

Zotah, I am a fundamentalist in every sense of the word. But over the years, I have seen that the Bible is not as crystal clear on the eternal state of the wicked as we are.

St. Augustine popularized the false doctrines of infant baptism, Calvinism, statue worship, and Mariolotry into Christianity. He did not invent any of them. He also popularized the doctrine of eternal torment.

 

[Heidi]

Jesus ushered in the kingdom of heaven and hell. Before he did that, men simply went to the grave, some to hades, the others to Abraham's side to await redemption or judgment. That's why Jesus preached to those on Abraham's (1 Peter 3:19) to release them from prison.

 

[zotah]

Thank you Heidi and Vince for your comment.

It's interesting to me how it seems to me that the Jewish faith really mostly does not believe in Hell Fire as we except the term "Ever Lasting Fire Punishment" In a real location.

If this premise is true then Hell fire was first mentioned by Jesus and before that the average Jew of that day had never even known about it before that.

I agree completely that the Hades of the old testement was called Abrahams bossum and a place of torment.

Maybe these places were mentioned in the old testament but we just don't have the books that mentioned it? For example we don't have the book of Enoch

Very Interesting at the very least.

Any one else have any differernt or more information to add to this I sure would appretiate it.

Zotah

 

[Heidi]

Thank you Heidi and Vince for your comment.

It's interesting to me how it seems to me that the Jewish faith really mostly does not believe in Hell Fire as we except the term "Ever Lasting Fire Punishment" In a real location.

If this premise is true then Hell fire was first mentioned by Jesus and before that the average Jew of that day had never even known about it before that.

I agree completely that the Hades of the old testement was called Abrahams bossum and a place of torment.

Maybe these places were mentioned in the old testament but we just don't have the books that mentioned it? For example we don't have the book of Enoch

Very Interesting at the very least.

Any one else have any differernt or more information to add to this I sure would appretiate it.

Zotah

Unfortunately as Jesus pointed out, the Jews believe that their righteousness and goodness will get them eternal bliss with God. The Jews do believe in an earthly messiah which will redeem them forever. But of course, an earthly messiah can only win battles on earth, not forever.

So this is an excellent topic because it leads one to wonder whether the Jews believe that the earth as it stands will last forever. I'm going to do some research on present-day Judaism. it's fascinating. thanks for the post.

 

[Vince]

The Old Testament word is "sheol" and refers to "the place where the dead go." In certain verses, it clearly refers to an individual grave. Other times it refers to the universal grave. Other times it clearly refers to the afterlife. There is no mention of torment in Sheol. The people in Sheol are conscious and able to observe what is going on around them. The Old Testament also taught a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.

The Greek word "Hades" is used in secular Greek literature for the afterlife. It is generally pleasantly boring, as well as gloomy. The various myths contradict, but they only have the most evil people being tormented.

The Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament) as well as the New Testament, used "Hades" for "Sheol."

 

[jasoncran]

Hades is the god of the underworld in the greek myth, he decides where the dead go, if i recall correclty.
remember the giving of the coin to sharon to cross the river styx before boarding the ferry. Think about the movie troi(troy).
jason

 

[Vince]

As a student in Catholic school, I was taught that the people in Hell would never get out. The first time I read the book of Revelation after I got saved, I was surprised by this passage:

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The people in Hell do get out, when they are raised from the dead. Since there was no one in Hell any more, and there were no longer any dead people (the saved were resurrected a few verses earlier), then what does it mean when it says that death and hell are cast into the lake of fire?

 

[guibox]

Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The people in Hell do get out, when they are raised from the dead. Since there was no one in Hell any more, and there were no longer any dead people (the saved were resurrected a few verses earlier), then what does it mean when it says that death and hell are cast into the lake of fire?

This is the symbolism of Revelation. Death and Hades/Sheol (the grave) are concepts. Being cast into the lake of fire shows their absolute destruction where in God's perfect, new universe 'there shall be no more tears or pain and there shall be no more death'.

This is one of the many reasons why the doctrine of eternal torment is erroneous and contradictory to biblical exegesis and comparison. Tradition has sinners consciously alive burning in hell. They have the 'second death' remaining in an eternal lake of fire. By sinners being alive, Christ's victory is not complete for sinners and sin still reign and are NOT destroyed. The Bible is FULL of annihilation of sinner references throughout but these are mostly ignored for ambiguous and apocalyptic texts where immortality of the soul is read into them.

Fire in the bible (and in society today) is the most destructive force possible. It is used to continually denote complete and utter destruction and annhilation. Yet, tradition has it doing the exact opposite against biblical usage of the element (maintaining a constant state of burning).

Anyway, that is anothe discussion. Back to the topic at hand...

The Hebrew belief on the afterlife has no consciousness after death and certainly not any afterlife in heaven and a burning pit upon immediate physical death. The Hebrews preached the wholism of man that man exists as a composite of body, soul and spirit which cannot exist without the other. When one dies, the rest do too. All men, both good and bad are unconscious in Sheol (the grave) (Job 10:10-14; Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10;Psalm 146:4) where they wait the resurrection of the just (Job 14:10-14; Daniel 12:1-2; John 5:28-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55).

Later Jewish faith began to change in the intertestamental period where some Hellenistic Jews began to adopt the Greek belief of the immortality of the soul and eternal torment. You can see both annihilation (the biblical Hebrew view), and eternal torment in the aprocryphal writings.

 

[Vince]

Remember that "sheol" can refer to the universal grave, an individual grave, or to Hades.

Isa 14:9 "Sheol from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you: 'Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?

Notice in verse 10 that the people in Sheol are not unconscious.

 

[guibox]

Remember that "sheol" can refer to the universal grave, an individual grave, or to Hades.

Isa 14:9 "Sheol from beneath is excited about you, To meet you at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.
10 They all shall speak and say to you: 'Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?

Notice in verse 10 that the people in Sheol are not unconscious.

Have you never heard of allegory and personification? I guess the wind 'whispering his name' and the 'trees bowing down' and 'rocks crying out praise' must be literal too.

By making 'souls' alive (which doesn't exist in the Hebrew) in Sheol, you contradict the Bible in all of the scriptures I have quoted and many more.

 

[Vince]

Guibox, you can't take verses you disagree with and say that they're symbolic.

 

[follower of Christ]

It doesnt matter what the Jews believed or believe...

Therefore, having such hope, we use great boldness of speech-- and not as Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is removed in Christ.
But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. But whenever one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
(2 Corinthians 3:12-16 EMTV)

Eternal hell vs eternal life
http://assembly-ministries.org/studies/ ... d=1&t_id=2


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[Vince]

How long is "forever"? How can "forever" be followed by "ever," as in the Biblical phrase "forever and ever"? "Forever" has to come to an end if it is followed by "ever."

 

[guibox]

Guibox, you can't take verses you disagree with and say that they're symbolic.

when the bible contradicts itself due to our interpretation, the interpretation must be considered and reanalyzed. This is what is done in this case for the biblical evidence is in favor the other way.

 

[Vince]

when the bible contradicts itself due to our interpretation, the interpretation must be considered and reanalyzed.

My friend, you are correct. The doctrine that we are unconscious after death contradicts too many Scriptures that show that the dead are conscious. Therefor, OT verse referring to unconsciousness in Sheol are referring to the grave.

 

[Vince]

Getting back to the part about "forever and ever," the Greek reads "from age to age." Now, Folks, I'm a fundamentalist, and I make no apologies for it. But the doctrine of "eternal torment" is a lot weaker than most Christians realize.

 

[Hawkins]

Getting back to the part about "forever and ever," the Greek reads "from age to age." Now, Folks, I'm a fundamentalist, and I make no apologies for it. But the doctrine of "eternal torment" is a lot weaker than most Christians realize.

Do you mean that the Bible we read on a daily basis is not legitimate enough? God speaks through the Bible, whether it's in Greek or not.

More likely, sinning will be destroyed forever and ever, together with the burning of Satan and his angels. Forever and ever in this sense means forever and ever.