What does the term Immaculate Conception mean?

[JLB]

When I was growing up, I heard this term and immediately thought it referred to Jesus being born of a virgin and thus being born sinless.


As I studied I found out different.


From the Catholic Encyclopedia —


The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body.

"...in the first instance of her conception..."
The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the fatherhad the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply (conceptio seminis carnis, inchoata), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying gracewas given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul.

"...was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin..."
The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was in her soul. Simultaneously with the exclusion of sin. The state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam — from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death.


Wikipedia —

The Immaculate Conception is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that the Virgin Mary was free of original sin from the moment of her conception.[1][Notes 1] It proved highly controversial in the Middle Ages, but revived in the 19th century and was adopted as Church dogma when Pope Pius IX promulgated Ineffabilis Deus in 1854.[2][3]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception


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JLB

 

[Mungo]

A point worth considering.
Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior"
(Lk 1:46-47)

Mary needed a saviour to preserve her from the effects of original sin, as the quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia shows.

If Mary had not been saved in this way then Jesus would have needed a Saviour to preserve him from the effects of original sin.

Mary was granted this unique privilege by God. He thus made her a holy dwelling, most fitting for the Holy One whom she would one day bear in her womb. This doctrine upholds the holiness and deity of Christ.

 

[JLB]

If Mary had not been saved in this way then Jesus would have needed a Saviour to preserve him from the effects of original sin.

This totally false.

Jesus was free from sin because He was born of a virgin and did not have an earthly father who passed on the tainted bloodline from Adam.


You are implying Mary was “saved” before Christ.


There is no scripture to support that Mary was born sinless.




JLB

 

[Mungo]

This totally false.

Jesus was free from sin because He was born of a virgin and did not have an earthly father who passed on the tainted bloodline from Adam.

Jesus got his human nature from Mary.

You are implying Mary was “saved” before Christ.

"The Most Holy Virgin Mary was, in the first moment of her conception, by a unique gift of grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin." (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, 1854)

There is no scripture to support that Mary was born sinless.

If by sinless you mean personal sin then we are all born sinless.

If by sinless you mean original sin then that has already been dealt with.

 

[JLB]

"The Most Holy Virgin Mary was, in the first moment of her conception, by a unique gift of grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Redeemer of mankind, preserved free from all stain of original sin." (Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus, 1854)

Please use scripture to validate your claim that Mary was born sinless and therefore saved before she gave birth to Christ.


Mary had an earthly father, and therefore was br in sin like all humans who have an earthly father.



JLB

 

[JLB]

If by sinless you mean original sin then that has already been dealt with.

I mean born without sin.

 

[Mungo]

I mean born without sin.

We are all born without sin. no baby has committed a sin in the womb.

 

[JLB]

We are all born without sin. no baby has committed a sin in the womb.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


Babies are born with sin in their bodies, being passed on from Adam.

 

[JLB]

We are all born without sin. no baby has committed a sin in the womb.

So what makes Mary different that you should pray to her?

 

[Mungo]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


Babies are born with sin in their bodies, being passed on from Adam.

Can we please distinguish between "personal sin" that someone commits and "original sin", which is the effects of the original sin committed by Adam, that we inherit.

A baby in the womb has not and cannot commit personal sin.

A baby in the womb inherits the effects of original sin, the fallen nature that Adam bequeathed us.

 

[Mungo]

So what makes Mary different that you should pray to her?

Can we keep to the topic please. We already have a thread on praying to Mary.

 

[JLB]

Can we keep to the topic please. We already have a thread on praying to Mary.

What makes Mary different than others since you claim all babies are sinless?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Can we please distinguish between "personal sin" that someone commits and "original sin", which is the effects of the original sin committed by Adam, that we inherit.

A baby in the womb has not and cannot commit personal sin.

A baby in the womb inherits the effects of original sin, the fallen nature that Adam bequeathed us.

I agree.

What makes Mary to be sinless having no “original sin”?

 

[Mungo]

I agree.

What makes Mary to be sinless having no “original sin”?

What makes Mary born without the effects of original sin is the Immaculate Conception as you described in the OP.

 

[JLB]

What makes Mary born without the effects of original sin is the Immaculate Conception as you described in the OP.

You will need to show me where the scripture teaches us that Mary was born of Immaculent Conception without original sin.

 

[Mungo]

You will need to show me where the scripture teaches us that Mary was born of Immaculent Conception without original sin.

Can you show me where scripture teaches us that Mary was not born of Immaculate Conception without original sin?

 

[JLB]

Can you show me where scripture teaches us that Mary was not born of Immaculate Conception without original sin?

I did.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


Babies are born with sin in their bodies, being passed on from Adam.

 

[Mungo]

I did.

No you did not show that.

"Babies are born with sin in their bodies, being passed on from Adam"

where does scripture say that?

Rom 5:12 doesn't say that..

 

[JLB]

No you did not show that.

"Babies are born with sin in their bodies, being passed on from Adam"

where does scripture say that?

Rom 5:12 doesn't say that..

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


How does a person come to have original sin, passed on to them if not from their earthly father?


Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. Romans 5:18

• through one man’s offense judgment came to all men

The bloodline from Adam contained sin and death, and therefore judgement that comes to all men through procreation, through their earthly father, which is why Jesus was born of a virgin, and therefore did not pass on the sin from Adam into His physical body.


Jesus was born sinless in His physical body because He has no earthly father.

His physical body was not made by procreation like the rest of mankind, but was prepared by God Himself.


Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
Hebrews 10:5


Unless you believe Mary was born of a virgin and had a physical body prepared by God that contained no sin from Adam, then Mary was born with the same sin in her body that the rest of mankind has.




JLB

 

[Mungo]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— Romans 5:12


How does a person come to have original sin, passed on to them if not from their earthly father?


Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. Romans 5:18

• through one man’s offense judgment came to all men

The bloodline from Adam contained sin and death, and therefore judgement that comes to all men through procreation, through their earthly father, which is why Jesus was born of a virgin, and therefore did not pass on the sin from Adam into His physical body.


Jesus was born sinless in His physical body because He has no earthly father.

His physical body was not made by procreation like the rest of mankind, but was prepared by God Himself.


Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
Hebrews 10:5


Unless you believe Mary was born of a virgin and had a physical body prepared by God that contained no sin from Adam, then Mary was born with the same sin in her body that the rest of mankind has.




JLB

Rom 5:12 is referring to personal sin not the effects of original sin.

"The bloodline from Adam contained sin and death"
Scripture doesn't say that. You just made that up.