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What happens to our tithes and offerings

should we worry about how tithes and offerings are managed?

  • yes

    Votes: 4 50.0%
  • no

    Votes: 5 62.5%

  • Total voters
    8

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Member
What happens to our titles and offerings

Particularly what happens to our tithes? Should this be a concern to anyone? Maybe and maybe not. I see there is a distinction between tithe and offering - and even how they may be used...and how they are generated.

A family friend told us a long time ago: I refuse to give huge amount of money to churches. The pastors are being enriched with our money. For this reason she seldom contributes anything 'money', I presume. But particularly, she gives very poor offering. If she had known how the money is used...perhaps she......


I think there ought to be a standard, a Godly standard how the money should be used...and probably the expenditure made known to all - how it has been used (what is that term???). Just my thought.
 
Tithes
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1 Tim 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Offerings
2 Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

I have valued the following teaching on giving and hope it is of comfort to all who struggle with this. The following is a portion of a lesson of a marriage seminar given by Pastor Gene Hawkins titled "Circles of Responsibility".

“Do not give out of necessity, or of having to. Necessity also means out of your need also.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. "But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:"

Now I'd like to illustrate this point in the way that God has given us to handle money. Now there are different ministers that I have talked to that when I say you must put your family before the ministry, the first thing I hear is oh no, God has to be first. I will agree wholeheartedly God has to be first, but there is a difference in God and ministry. This is the distinction that we have to make and scripture is very plain on this matter. I'd like to illustrate it with money.

The first area of responsibility that we have with money is in the tithe. God plainly tells us there in Malachi chap. four that if you spend the tithe and don't give it to God, then you have robbed God. The first fruit belongs to God and that's the same thing with our own personal lives. We must dedicate the first part of ourselves; our love, our adoration, our affection, and our devotion. All of that must be given to God Himself. I'm not talking about the ministries He has given us to do; I'm talking about God as a person and dedicating these things to God as to who He is. So our first responsibility with money is to give the tithe directly to God. Now men may receive it, but it is God that we are giving it to.

The second area of responsibility and you can compare this with (1 Tim. 5:8) "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." After the tithe has been given to God, then that money must be dedicated and earmarked for the family, and what I am saying is this: it is not right to give money to the church that rightfully belongs to fulfilling the needs of the family. Now there are some ministers and again I have a problem with the way some of these professional fundraisers get money because they are not scriptural. They try to get people to step out by faith, and if you give this money I guarantee the Lord will bring it back to you. I want to tell you a very simple operation concerning money. If God gives you money for a certain thing and you don't spend it on what He gave it to you for, you're going to have a need in that area. So if He gives you the money to pay your rent and you become very spiritual and say oh we'll give it to the church; don't be surprised if your rent ain't paid. God isn't bound to pay your rent after He gave you the money to pay your rent and you proceeded to give it somewhere else. We cannot do that all in the name of: well the Lord is surely going to come in for this. So it's not right to give money to the church which rightfully belongs to the family. It cannot be given to other members of the body of Christ when our own family is suffering and needs that money.

I want to notice one more example here that Jesus gave in this area where that you don't give money to the church that properly belongs to the family. Back in the time of the Jews in (Mark 7:11) Jesus was denouncing the Pharisees because they were taking gifts of money and giving it to the temple and they called it Corban, but the money they were giving was money they should have been giving to take care of their parents. So they were shirking their responsibility to their parents to take care of them, and they were giving it to the temple and Jesus said that is not right. You need to give that money where it belongs and take care of your parents first.

The third area of money is the church or household of faith. (Gal. 6:10) "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, (The context of this is in regard to money, so as we have opportunity let us do good unto all men but with this proviso: this takes the priority above all men and it is this) especially unto them who are of the household of faith. So we have this money and we give our tithe to the Lord, we meet the needs of the family and then if we have other monies we are free to help other members of the body of Christ.

Here last year I doing some work for a neighbor of mine trying to get his house done and I had money in addition to what I normally take from the church; it was just all free and clear, and there arose a medical need in a family of the church who didn't have any insurance. The Lord spoke to my heart and He said I want you to give this entire two week check which amounted to a sizeable sum of money to them; okay, no problem, I did not rob my wife of anything to give that money to those people. That was mine free and clear; I wasn't taking it away from anybody else and I gave it to that family. I didn't look for any big increase or windfall and haven't seen it; it was given simply because God said to do it and it was mine to do with as He said to do it, but I did not rob from the family in order to do that.

Right after the Oklahoma bombing I felt deeply moved and grieved and we didn't have a whole lot of money; we did send an offering from the church, but I felt like I wanted to do something in a personal way so I talked to my wife and didn't demand of her but asked, would be alright with you if we forego our date-night for a month and the money we would have spent on our date-night we will give to these people down in Oklahoma after the bombing? fine she said, wonderful. So that's exactly what we did, but we didn't rob anybody else in order to do that, and so this is what I'm saying: don't ever take anything away from the family and give it to the church. It belongs to them and that includes our time and everything.

Now then, the forth area regarding money. ((Gal. 6:10) "Let us do unto good to all men." Once we've taken care of the immediate needs of the church, then we are free to give to all men if we have any left. This refers to the rest of the world and those without the household of faith; these are the last in our order of responsibility to help and that means with our time, with our money, with our commitment or anything of this nature. The world gets what's left as exactly as it should in our lives before the Lord. So we must establish the right priorities in our marriages, because if we don't we are going to be robbing from the family which rightfully belongs there.”
 
Tithes
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1 Tim 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Offerings
2 Cor 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

I have valued the following teaching on giving and hope it is of comfort to all who struggle with this. The following is a portion of a lesson of a marriage seminar given by Pastor Gene Hawkins titled "Circles of Responsibility".

“Do not give out of necessity, or of having to. Necessity also means out of your need also.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8. "But this I say, He which sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which sows bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:"

Now I'd like to illustrate this point in the way that God has given us to handle money. Now there are different ministers that I have talked to that when I say you must put your family before the ministry, the first thing I hear is oh no, God has to be first. I will agree wholeheartedly God has to be first, but there is a difference in God and ministry. This is the distinction that we have to make and scripture is very plain on this matter. I'd like to illustrate it with money.

The first area of responsibility that we have with money is in the tithe. God plainly tells us there in Malachi chap. four that if you spend the tithe and don't give it to God, then you have robbed God. The first fruit belongs to God and that's the same thing with our own personal lives. We must dedicate the first part of ourselves; our love, our adoration, our affection, and our devotion. All of that must be given to God Himself. I'm not talking about the ministries He has given us to do; I'm talking about God as a person and dedicating these things to God as to who He is. So our first responsibility with money is to give the tithe directly to God. Now men may receive it, but it is God that we are giving it to.

The second area of responsibility and you can compare this with (1 Tim. 5:8) "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." After the tithe has been given to God, then that money must be dedicated and earmarked for the family, and what I am saying is this: it is not right to give money to the church that rightfully belongs to fulfilling the needs of the family. Now there are some ministers and again I have a problem with the way some of these professional fundraisers get money because they are not scriptural. They try to get people to step out by faith, and if you give this money I guarantee the Lord will bring it back to you. I want to tell you a very simple operation concerning money. If God gives you money for a certain thing and you don't spend it on what He gave it to you for, you're going to have a need in that area. So if He gives you the money to pay your rent and you become very spiritual and say oh we'll give it to the church; don't be surprised if your rent ain't paid. God isn't bound to pay your rent after He gave you the money to pay your rent and you proceeded to give it somewhere else. We cannot do that all in the name of: well the Lord is surely going to come in for this. So it's not right to give money to the church which rightfully belongs to the family. It cannot be given to other members of the body of Christ when our own family is suffering and needs that money.

I want to notice one more example here that Jesus gave in this area where that you don't give money to the church that properly belongs to the family. Back in the time of the Jews in (Mark 7:11) Jesus was denouncing the Pharisees because they were taking gifts of money and giving it to the temple and they called it Corban, but the money they were giving was money they should have been giving to take care of their parents. So they were shirking their responsibility to their parents to take care of them, and they were giving it to the temple and Jesus said that is not right. You need to give that money where it belongs and take care of your parents first.

The third area of money is the church or household of faith. (Gal. 6:10) "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, (The context of this is in regard to money, so as we have opportunity let us do good unto all men but with this proviso: this takes the priority above all men and it is this) especially unto them who are of the household of faith. So we have this money and we give our tithe to the Lord, we meet the needs of the family and then if we have other monies we are free to help other members of the body of Christ.

Here last year I doing some work for a neighbor of mine trying to get his house done and I had money in addition to what I normally take from the church; it was just all free and clear, and there arose a medical need in a family of the church who didn't have any insurance. The Lord spoke to my heart and He said I want you to give this entire two week check which amounted to a sizeable sum of money to them; okay, no problem, I did not rob my wife of anything to give that money to those people. That was mine free and clear; I wasn't taking it away from anybody else and I gave it to that family. I didn't look for any big increase or windfall and haven't seen it; it was given simply because God said to do it and it was mine to do with as He said to do it, but I did not rob from the family in order to do that.

Right after the Oklahoma bombing I felt deeply moved and grieved and we didn't have a whole lot of money; we did send an offering from the church, but I felt like I wanted to do something in a personal way so I talked to my wife and didn't demand of her but asked, would be alright with you if we forego our date-night for a month and the money we would have spent on our date-night we will give to these people down in Oklahoma after the bombing? fine she said, wonderful. So that's exactly what we did, but we didn't rob anybody else in order to do that, and so this is what I'm saying: don't ever take anything away from the family and give it to the church. It belongs to them and that includes our time and everything.

Now then, the forth area regarding money. ((Gal. 6:10) "Let us do unto good to all men." Once we've taken care of the immediate needs of the church, then we are free to give to all men if we have any left. This refers to the rest of the world and those without the household of faith; these are the last in our order of responsibility to help and that means with our time, with our money, with our commitment or anything of this nature. The world gets what's left as exactly as it should in our lives before the Lord. So we must establish the right priorities in our marriages, because if we don't we are going to be robbing from the family which rightfully belongs there.”
Thank you, Eugene.

I need clarification here: first fruit. It is different from tithe, right?

Example, I got this job today and after work they pay me hundred bucks. I should give the hundred bucks to the church - and not ten bucks? amazing. Maybe I have not payed attention to this before.

If that is the case...then my first tithe would be from the second money they pay me...that is ten bucks this time around - and not the whole money?

Thank you again.
 
Is it a command it must be the first fruit? Can it be the second or third or fourth...considering that some may go completely hungry if they have to pay all at once...from their first pay?
 
Perhaps majority of people have not understood the first fruit thing...or maybe they consider it an OT/NT issue
 
I do not know if I can justify this to you, but I have always considered the tithe of $100 to be $10, and that comes prior to any deductions; a first fruit as it were.
 
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THIS kind of blows, right out of the water, all the arguments that many preachers use to make sure you keep their church well heeled...... It's really true that God meant it when He said He wants neither our money, nor our sacrifices (what we would call, "works", these days)

Of course I, personally, believe that you should highly consider GIVING at least that same amount to take care of your facility, and pay the preacher. But that is not Biblical, just a responsibility that is up to us.
Deut 14

22 Every year be sure to save a tenth of the crops harvested from whatever you plant in your fields. 23 Eat the tenth of your grain, new wine, and olive oil, and eat the firstborn of your cattle, sheep, and goats in the presence of the Lord your God in the place he will choose to put his name. Then you will learn to fear the Lord your God as long as you live.
24 But the place the Lord your God will choose to put his name may be too far away. He may bless you with so much that you can’t carry a tenth of your income that far. 25 If so, exchange the tenth part of your income for silver. Take the silver with you, and go to the place the Lord your God will choose. 26 Use the silver to buy whatever you want: cattle, sheep, goats, wine, liquor—whatever you choose. Then you and your family will eat and enjoy yourselves there in the presence of the Lord your God. 27 Never forget to take care of the Levites who live in your cities. They have no land of their own as you have.

The Bible indicates that they were to take care of the Levites from out of the 90% they didn't tithe. The same with strangers and widows. They were to use what was left, after the tithe, to feed and clothe them.

Yes, this type of tithe (call it whatever you wish... it's STILL 10% of your income.) was initiated by God, basically, to be spent on a party for themselves (the Jewish people) in front of the Lord. (A VERY important part of this passage to take note of! This is a party in the Temple... WITH God.)

BUT, please note: In saying that, God also indicated that this was ALL they were to spend on their own partying if they had other obligations that required spending all of the remaining 90% on debts or needs.

Also….. Isn't it remarkable how often Jesus describes the kingdom of God as a wedding feast? Have you ever been to a Jewish wedding reception? It is probably one of the most extravagant blowouts you will ever attend in your life. Imagine, Jesus' first miracle was making MORE THAN 900 BOTTLES OF WINE for exactly such a party. (And, do you think there were even 100 people in that tiny town? That's an extravagant amount of partying!...... 9 or 10 bottles per adult.)

And, it seems almost impossible to count the number of times JOY and SHOUTING and THANKSGIVING and DANCING are repeated over, and over again in the Bible.
 
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should we worry about how tithes and offerings are managed?

Jesus told us not to worry, but we should give some thought to how the money is going to be used before we donate it. About 90% of what is given to local churches is used to pay the pastor's salary and for the upkeep of the church building. That's not what I want to donate to, so I don't give to local churches. My offerings go primarily to a Christian charity, but before I started supporting it, I went over their finances, which they summarize and make publicly available once a year.

The TOG​
 
I'm lost again. What is the difference, if any, between Tithe and First Fruit?

I've always thought that firstfuits were a part of the tithe. They are first pick, the best of the crop. If we were to put this into modern terms (since so few are farmers nowadays), it would simply mean gross. Like if you earned 100 dollars gross for the week, and 80 dollars take home, that you would pay the tithe on the 100, and not on the 80 only..

A family friend told us a long time ago: I refuse to give huge amount of money to churches. The pastors are being enriched with our money. For this reason she seldom contributes anything 'money', I presume. But particularly, she gives very poor offering. If she had known how the money is used...perhaps she......

I think there ought to be a standard, a Godly standard how the money should be used...and probably the expenditure made known to all - how it has been used (what is that term???). Just my thought.

My wife was like that too. Believers responsibility was to pay the tithe and if it happens to be mis-used by anyone in the church, that's between them and God and not for us to judge.

There is a standard how the money should be used. It is within the pages of scripture, and written upon the Pastors heart. As far as I understand, we are not obligated to pay tithes nowadays, but that God will still honor his promise if we choose to do so.
 
I've always thought that firstfuits were a part of the tithe. They are first pick, the best of the crop. If we were to put this into modern terms (since so few are farmers nowadays), it would simply mean gross. Like if you earned 100 dollars gross for the week, and 80 dollars take home, that you would pay the tithe on the 100, and not on the 80 only..



My wife was like that too. Believers responsibility was to pay the tithe and if it happens to be mis-used by anyone in the church, that's between them and God and not for us to judge.

There is a standard how the money should be used. It is within the pages of scripture, and written upon the Pastors heart. As far as I understand, we are not obligated to pay tithes nowadays, but that God will still honor his promise if we choose to do so.
First fruits and tithes are not money.
So in your thinking to convert them to money is not biblical.
Only if we are Jews and live too far from the Temple can we convert our tithes to money.
Are we Jews under the Law?
How far is God's Temple from where you live?
The one spoken of in the Bible does not exist.

We should instead be talking about 10% cash instead of tithe.
And taking 10% off your gross paycheck is not cash.
You can never give God first fruits and you can never give God your tithe.
And always giving 10% of your cash is legalism.
As Christians, Jesus freed us from legalism.

The biggest complaint people have against what I say is, "oh, he doesn't want to give God the money so he finds excuses".
That is so negative and untrue.
For all any of you know, I give more to God than all of you.

What you give to God is between you and God.
And how people receive and use what you give is between them and God.
 
First fruits and tithes are not money.
So in your thinking to convert them to money is not biblical.
Only if we are Jews and live too far from the Temple can we convert our tithes to money.
Are we Jews under the Law?
How far is God's Temple from where you live?
The one spoken of in the Bible does not exist.

We should instead be talking about 10% cash instead of tithe.
And taking 10% off your gross paycheck is not cash.
You can never give God first fruits and you can never give God your tithe.
And always giving 10% of your cash is legalism.
As Christians, Jesus freed us from legalism.

The biggest complaint people have against what I say is, "oh, he doesn't want to give God the money so he finds excuses".
That is so negative and untrue.
For all any of you know, I give more to God than all of you.

What you give to God is between you and God.
And how people receive and use what you give is between them and God.

Oh, I know tithes are not money. It was simply food. But we are told all throughout the bible to help the poor and needy, and widows and orpahns. I made the point because if it is upon ones heart to help out, then a conversion of thinking to cash or so forth is a practical way for most to be able to help. We are not Jews under the Law either, I said that, there is no obligation to tithe for us. But that wont stop someone with a giving heart from giving anyway. What's not biblical about having a giving heart brother?
 
Oh, I know tithes are not money. It was simply food. But we are told all throughout the bible to help the poor and needy, and widows and orpahns. I made the point because if it is upon ones heart to help out, then a conversion of thinking to cash or so forth is a practical way for most to be able to help. We are not Jews under the Law either, I said that, there is no obligation to tithe for us. But that wont stop someone with a giving heart from giving anyway. What's not biblical about having a giving heart brother?
What did I say that would make you question if I have a giving heart?
 
What did I say that would make you question if I have a giving heart?

He's right, I'm not questioning if you have a giving heart. You said that trying to convert a food tithe to a money tithe is not biblical. I think that in a practical sense that it is because money buys food nowadays and having a giving heart may help someone to buy food, and that is biblical. Nothing to do with you or your heart. :)
 
Deut.14:22-27 that I quoted above, in post #8, told the Jews to convert their crops (or whatever they had) into cash money, and put that in their pockets for easier traveling..... then to buy whatever they wanted with that cash.
 
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Some people make a distinction between tithes and offerings. If they do, fantastic. If--like me--they don't, fantastic. In any case, if you're giving money to your church, you should be concerned where exactly it is going and how it is being spent. I imagine people would be pretty upset if they found out their money was going to the pastor's family so they could afford that trip to Disneyland they take every month, or so the staff could have weekly massages. Believe it or not, I've heard of tithes being abused in that way. To me, it is responsible stewardship to know where your money is going and what it's being used for, if you're able to feasibly find out. I don't buy a beer from the liquor store and ask how they plan to spend the money I gave them for it, but when I can find out from the church or the government how my money's being spent, I'm interested.
 
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