What happens when you knowingly disobey the word of God?

[CORE]

What happens when you knowingly disobey the word of God?

You sin...

There is a remedy for that, lets not complicate things...lol:naughty

 

[yunig320]

1 John 1.9 is a good basis for considering this.

But the believer learns instinctively to follow the Lord in his or her conscience.

Blessings.

Hi Farouk, I really like that verse and I understand what it says. But my question refers to those instances when you just continue sinning, even when you know you are wrong and dont repent and just find an excuse for what you are doing. What happens then?? I think Brother Mike got really close to the answer there. I think is like a process that ultimately ends in death :/

It needs to be made clear, amidst speculation, that someone who lies and dies in sin and unbelief was never a truly born again believer in the first place, whatever the person might have once professed.

The promise to true believers at the end of Romans 8 is very clear.

I see... Thanks!

 

[yunig320]

I do not believe in OSAS, but once a child of God it would take an act of faith to willfully and knowingly leave God and the promise. You can't sin your way to hell is what I am saying once saved.

I had posted this, but for some reason it did not come up. I really enjoyed reading this. Great explanation and example! I have a question though.. What are OSAS??

 

[yunig320]

I hear my Pastor say sometimes that it is the worst thing to know the word of God and knowingly disobey it and stray in the opposite path. But I am curious to know what exactly happens when Christians do this thing? Does it mean they lost God forever? I know the Bible mentions a lot of men who repented after disobeying and were able to enjoy God in their lives again, but to what extent is this possible?

Any so-called pastor that attempts to make the scriptures into a legalistic code, to earn salvation by works, is not a true minister of the New Covenant.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Our odbedience is based upon the "law of faith" not "law of works" we believe in our hearts and we act according to what we believe, not in trying to keep a written code or standard. Now the word itself will judge the heart of honest men as to if they are in obedience to what they believe. The New Covenant is based upon the heart not a written code, OLD OR NEW.

I get what you are saying George, but I think that maybe I didnt phrase the question right. It's not about what my Pastor said, it's about when someone who already KNOWS Christ as their Lord and Savior, deliberately sins and continues to do it, even if somewhere inside there is some type of remorse, but not sincere repentance. What happens then? And that was the question I never got answered every time he would talk about when people who know the truth deliberately disobey the word of God. I guess I just never asked the right questions.

 

[George Muller]

I hear my Pastor say sometimes that it is the worst thing to know the word of God and knowingly disobey it and stray in the opposite path. But I am curious to know what exactly happens when Christians do this thing? Does it mean they lost God forever? I know the Bible mentions a lot of men who repented after disobeying and were able to enjoy God in their lives again, but to what extent is this possible?

Any so-called pastor that attempts to make the scriptures into a legalistic code, to earn salvation by works, is not a true minister of the New Covenant.

2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Our odbedience is based upon the "law of faith" not "law of works" we believe in our hearts and we act according to what we believe, not in trying to keep a written code or standard. Now the word itself will judge the heart of honest men as to if they are in obedience to what they believe. The New Covenant is based upon the heart not a written code, OLD OR NEW.

I get what you are saying George, but I think that maybe I didnt phrase the question right. It's not about what my Pastor said, it's about when someone who already KNOWS Christ as their Lord and Savior, deliberately sins and continues to do it, even if somewhere inside there is some type of remorse, but not sincere repentance. What happens then? And that was the question I never got answered every time he would talk about when people who know the truth deliberately disobey the word of God. I guess I just never asked the right questions.

Well the New Testament has some clear warnings on these things, such as those who commit sexual immorality, those who walk in hypocricy and seek to judge and condemn others, those who walk in the flesh etc... And God is not mocked in none of these things, He is not weak and he will judge each believer according to what they have done in the body. Also we see that the issue with a believer is the flesh, that has no ability to work righteousness. We also see that legalism only increases sins power in the flesh and produces sinful desires, pharisees and white-washed religion. The answer to to point the believer to the Spirit of God within them, and to teach a believer to walk in the Spirit. Trying to use fear and guilt and legalistic codes is not the answer. Faith working by love is the only biblical standard that is accepted that can produce true righteousness.

The answer has always been, to understand the true gospel and the power of Gods grace.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[Brother Mike]

George:

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I think what happens when we disobey God needs to be categorized.

Let me make this statement. If you known Jesus for a couple years but have Porn, drug, or whatever issue. It is extreme pride to say that you know better. That you know your doing wrong and so on. If you knew you were doing wrong, you would not be doing it. One more time.

If you knew you were doing wrong, you would not be doing it.

To say you know better, is to say I already have all the light I need about sin, about grace and I know what I am doing and I want to sin anyway. Once you know better and believe that, you know then there is no more light or information your going to receive on it. It's pride to think you know everything about the sin your trapped in. It's pride to say you know everything about that disobedience to God. Once you confess these sins and disobedience that you know better, then your in trouble. Someone that knows already, can not be corrected. Knowing your disobedience is also knowing the outcome of it, and to continue to do it, means you knowingly accept the outcome which is death.

Joh_9:39 And Jesus said, [COLOR="red"[U]]For judgment I am come[/U] into this world, that [B]they which see not might see[/B]; and that [B]they which see might be made blind.[/B] [/COLOR]

Those that say the don't see, get the most grace. Those that say we already see and know, are really made blind and they won't see.
[B]
Joh_9:41[/B] Jesus said unto them, [COLOR="red"]If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.[/COLOR]

If you say and confess you know that your doing wrong, then not only can you not be corrected because you already know, but your sin remains. Just feeling bad about what you allow, and knowing you should not be doing drugs, watching porn, drinking like a fish, is not knowing, because you don't have a concept of the consequences, or that it is sin. You just know its not good.

it's pride and the devil that convinces you that your such a know it all bible expert after being saved for 5 years that you have full grasp and understanding of sin and despite your vast knowledge of the grace of God and your vast knowledge of what sin brings, you know and sin anyway.

How many after baking something for 2 hours in the Oven just reach in with their hands and take it out? Do we not first get some oven gloves to use then take it out?
How many clean the grass out from under their lawn mower with their hands without first shutting the mower off and stopping the blade from turning?

Many however will open their water heater, see the warning sign to shut power off to it and adjust the temperature with the power on anyway. After all, they will be careful not to hit the part that will shock them despite the warning. I no longer do this, I always shut the power off to it, don't ask me how I know.

Knowing about something is not knowing everything their is to know about it.

What should you know?

The grace of God and your advocate with the Father are for ever working on your behalf to give light and work in you forever no matter what spiritual state your in. No matter the sin, your NOT GUILTY!!! and as a sheep just wonders from the pen, always gets herded back in. It's the stubborn sheep that won't come back to the pen and say they know better but will stay outside anyway.

When stuck in a sin, or disobedience never say you know better. Go to God and thank him for his love, and grace and ask for light. Make it real to me Lord like it's real to me about not putting my hands under a mower to clean grass without shutting it off first. Never confess your Guilty, never confess you know better. Confess instead that your born again, a child of God and your going to see it, and make it out.

Jesus said the truth shall make you free. If your having issue with a sin then it's very clear you don't have all the information you need to break out of it. Saying you know means no more truth can be given as you already know. Jesus warned about this, saying "YOU KNOW"

Whom much is given, much is required. There is a place when God has given you the light to know. Don't violate that, or else it's time to be corrected. If you ignore the correction then you can get to the place of being self deceived, and soon judgment. Once again I am not talking about stupid sins your trapped in. Being free of things is a process and sometimes that takes years as God gives you light and steps to follow that you can handle by the flesh.

Mike.

 

[yunig320]

George:

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I think what happens when we disobey God needs to be categorized.

Let me make this statement. If you known Jesus for a couple years but have Porn, drug, or whatever issue. It is extreme pride to say that you know better. That you know your doing wrong and so on. If you knew you were doing wrong, you would not be doing it. One more time.

If you knew you were doing wrong, you would not be doing it.

To say you know better, is to say I already have all the light I need about sin, about grace and I know what I am doing and I want to sin anyway. Once you know better and believe that, you know then there is no more light or information your going to receive on it. It's pride to think you know everything about the sin your trapped in. It's pride to say you know everything about that disobedience to God. Once you confess these sins and disobedience that you know better, then your in trouble. Someone that knows already, can not be corrected. Knowing your disobedience is also knowing the outcome of it, and to continue to do it, means you knowingly accept the outcome which is death.

Joh_9:39 And Jesus said, [COLOR="red"[U]]For judgment I am come[/U] into this world, that [B]they which see not might see[/B]; and that [B]they which see might be made blind.[/B] [/COLOR]

Those that say the don't see, get the most grace. Those that say we already see and know, are really made blind and they won't see.
[B]
Joh_9:41[/B] Jesus said unto them, [COLOR="red"]If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.[/COLOR]

If you say and confess you know that your doing wrong, then not only can you not be corrected because you already know, but your sin remains. Just feeling bad about what you allow, and knowing you should not be doing drugs, watching porn, drinking like a fish, is not knowing, because you don't have a concept of the consequences, or that it is sin. You just know its not good.

it's pride and the devil that convinces you that your such a know it all bible expert after being saved for 5 years that you have full grasp and understanding of sin and despite your vast knowledge of the grace of God and your vast knowledge of what sin brings, you know and sin anyway.

How many after baking something for 2 hours in the Oven just reach in with their hands and take it out? Do we not first get some oven gloves to use then take it out?
How many clean the grass out from under their lawn mower with their hands without first shutting the mower off and stopping the blade from turning?

Many however will open their water heater, see the warning sign to shut power off to it and adjust the temperature with the power on anyway. After all, they will be careful not to hit the part that will shock them despite the warning. I no longer do this, I always shut the power off to it, don't ask me how I know.

Knowing about something is not knowing everything their is to know about it.

What should you know?

The grace of God and your advocate with the Father are for ever working on your behalf to give light and work in you forever no matter what spiritual state your in. No matter the sin, your NOT GUILTY!!! and as a sheep just wonders from the pen, always gets herded back in. It's the stubborn sheep that won't come back to the pen and say they know better but will stay outside anyway.

When stuck in a sin, or disobedience never say you know better. Go to God and thank him for his love, and grace and ask for light. Make it real to me Lord like it's real to me about not putting my hands under a mower to clean grass without shutting it off first. Never confess your Guilty, never confess you know better. Confess instead that your born again, a child of God and your going to see it, and make it out.

Jesus said the truth shall make you free. If your having issue with a sin then it's very clear you don't have all the information you need to break out of it. Saying you know means no more truth can be given as you already know. Jesus warned about this, saying "YOU KNOW"

Whom much is given, much is required. There is a place when God has given you the light to know. Don't violate that, or else it's time to be corrected. If you ignore the correction then you can get to the place of being self deceived, and soon judgment. Once again I am not talking about stupid sins your trapped in. Being free of things is a process and sometimes that takes years as God gives you light and steps to follow that you can handle by the flesh.

Mike.

Once again Brother Mike. I dont know who you are, but God continues to speak through you straight to my soul. Thank you so much!

 

[yunig320]

OSAS= "Once Saved Always Saved."

The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. We all sin. But the Lord is faithful and just and merciful. If we repent of our sin truly within our heart and ask forgiveness, he will forgive us, and we are once again seen as spotless before God. Many believe that our conscience is the Holy Spirit guiding us. I tend to believe this. If we go against our conscience, we quench the Spirit of God, and our heart it hardened, as noted already. It is a vicious process which gets worse and leads us further into sin and away from God. If we listen and obey, or catch ourselves if you will, and make amends for the sin and ask forgiveness, all is well, and we are to continue obeying and not going against our conscience (The Holy Spirit). If we do, our heart is further hardened and it becomes easier to sin. Then we make excuses, and sin more, more hardening of the heart. Eventually, one day we wake up without a conscience...we have been given over to a reprobate mind unto death and from such, I believe there is no repentance. That may take an awful long time though because God is faithful and patient with us, not willing that any should perish. I feel as if the biggest danger to us is in the belief that there are small sins which don't amount to much. Little white lies and so forth. This is a huge deception because sin is sin to God. The one who tells a little white lie is just as guilty as the one who slays 1000 christians. Be careful to not open the door to this deception. Walk with honor and within conscience. Ask forgiveness daily and live for the Spirit and not for the flesh. Then conscience and discernment grow stronger and a renewing of the heart & mind will begin to take place, which will allow one to to discern righteousness and error more readily. Praise God in all things and continue to pray for wisdom and understanding. The beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. Understanding is to flee from evil.

Thanks a lot Edward!

 

[Deborah13]

I can't stress enough that disobedience to God brings entrance to the enemy. Obedience to God brings protection and peace. It brings prosperity and health. Choose which one you want, the blessing or the cursing. It's our choice.

Remember, I am not talking about baby Christians stuck in some stupid sin. I am talking about the ones that know the will of God, and won't do it. Saul was a good example of this.

Good post Michael in my opinion anyway.