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Webers_Home
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Webers_Home
Guest
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†. John 3:3 . . I assure you: no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.
†. John 3:4 . . Nicodemus said to him: How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?
†. John 3:5 . . I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you: You must be born from above.
†. John 3:8 . .The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes-- so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
†. John 3:9 . . Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can this happen?
†. John 3:10 . . Jesus answered and said to him: You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?
01) Is it supernatural?
02) Is it a ritual?
03) Is it a rite of passage?
04) Is it a spiritual awakening?
05) Is it joining a church?
06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?
07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must?
08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation?
09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air?
10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?
Cliff
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†. John 3:3 . . I assure you: no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.
†. John 3:4 . . Nicodemus said to him: How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot re-enter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?
†. John 3:5 . . I assure you: no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.
†. John 3:6 . .What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you: You must be born from above.
†. John 3:8 . .The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes-- so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
†. John 3:9 . . Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can this happen?
†. John 3:10 . . Jesus answered and said to him: You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this?
01) Is it supernatural?
02) Is it a ritual?
03) Is it a rite of passage?
04) Is it a spiritual awakening?
05) Is it joining a church?
06) Is it baptism performed by clergy in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost?
07) Why should people not be surprised that a birth from above is a must?
08) If a must, rather than an option; then why wasn't I told about a birth from above while in catechism for First Holy Communion and Confirmation?
09) Are people born from above invisible like thin air?
10) Why did Rabbi Nicodemus not get it?
Cliff
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mint-debian
Member
Compare John 3:7-8 with Ecclesiastes 11:5.
"earthly things" (John 3:12) "under the sun" and "upon the earth" (Ecclesiastes).
All the Lord is saying is:
That part of John chapter Three is about resurrection, His own being announced in just the prior chapter. (Thus inspiring a Pharisee, who believes in resurrection, to visit Him "by night" John 3:2).
Unless a person understands that we have two bodies, he will not understand resurrection. (I Corinthians 15:40)
Certain angels chose not to be born of woman. Do you know what will happen to them? See Jude 1:6.
They won't see the Kingdom of God, or much of anything else.
The Lord, as the "only" exception, did not have a body that "saw corruption".
Nicodemus didn't get it for the same reason many don't: he endeavored to make "heavenly things" out of "earthly things".
"earthly things" (John 3:12) "under the sun" and "upon the earth" (Ecclesiastes).
All the Lord is saying is:
1. Your spirit must be created by God
2. You must be born in the water of the womb
You can't return to a place you didn't come from, including the Son of Man (John 3:13 (properly rendered), Ecc 12:7).2. You must be born in the water of the womb
That part of John chapter Three is about resurrection, His own being announced in just the prior chapter. (Thus inspiring a Pharisee, who believes in resurrection, to visit Him "by night" John 3:2).
Unless a person understands that we have two bodies, he will not understand resurrection. (I Corinthians 15:40)
Certain angels chose not to be born of woman. Do you know what will happen to them? See Jude 1:6.
They won't see the Kingdom of God, or much of anything else.
The Lord, as the "only" exception, did not have a body that "saw corruption".
Nicodemus didn't get it for the same reason many don't: he endeavored to make "heavenly things" out of "earthly things".
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tim-from-pa
Member
It's at the time of resurrection. That which is flesh is flesh, and that which is spirit is spirit. We are raised spiritual bodies, Paul stated.
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Adullam
Member
It is the power to become a son of God. We are birthed into the spiritual reality by being regenerated in our hearts by the deposit of the Spirit.
Most claim this as a permanent salvation. It is a salvation...but we must be guided by the Spirit and run the race according to the Spirit to fulfill our new calling in Christ.
Most claim this as a permanent salvation. It is a salvation...but we must be guided by the Spirit and run the race according to the Spirit to fulfill our new calling in Christ.
Butch5
Member
W
Webers_Home
Guest
--
I came into existence as a first-Genesis human. In other words: I came into existence via the sixth day of creation. But now, thanks to John 3:3-8, I also exist as a second-Genesis human.
†. 2 Cor 5:17-18 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
The in-Christ me is invisible for the moment.
†. John 3:8 . . The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Science can track storms like Isaac; but after it dissipates; where will Isaac's air go? Nobody knows because while it's easy to track a storm; it's not so easy to track air; especially since air is invisible.
What I'm saying is: there are two human races. There's Adam's race, and there's Christ's race. Adam's race is 110% sinful.
†. 1 John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Christ's race is 110% sinless.
†. 1 John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Hence the Lord's statement:
†. John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again.
In other words; in order to become sinless; people have to undergo another Genesis all over again; and this is not optional: no, it's a must.
Buen Camino
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I came into existence as a first-Genesis human. In other words: I came into existence via the sixth day of creation. But now, thanks to John 3:3-8, I also exist as a second-Genesis human.
†. 2 Cor 5:17-18 . . If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
The in-Christ me is invisible for the moment.
†. John 3:8 . . The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.
Science can track storms like Isaac; but after it dissipates; where will Isaac's air go? Nobody knows because while it's easy to track a storm; it's not so easy to track air; especially since air is invisible.
What I'm saying is: there are two human races. There's Adam's race, and there's Christ's race. Adam's race is 110% sinful.
†. 1 John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Christ's race is 110% sinless.
†. 1 John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Hence the Lord's statement:
†. John 3:7 . .You should not be surprised at my saying you must be born again.
In other words; in order to become sinless; people have to undergo another Genesis all over again; and this is not optional: no, it's a must.
Buen Camino
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watchman333
Member
Art thou Christians on this forum and knowest not these things? Nicodemus could not understand for the same reason most Christians do not understand. BORN AGAIN here is a bad translation from the Greek. The Lord was actually telling Nicodemus that unless a man be BEGOTTEN FROM ABOVE he cannot see the kingdom of God. Man=anyone. Born=begotten. Again=from above. The Greek is anothen, from above. I understand the Christian church teaches born again as an epiphany, an awakening to Christ, and I do not have a problem with that. I do have a problem with too many Christians not seeming to care what Christ was really telling Nicodemus here. We are all, every one of us, no exceptions, born from above. We must be born of woman to achieve the kingdom. No one will ascend to the new heaven on earth unless they have descended through this flesh life first. That is what our Beloved was telling Nicodemus, and that is what I'm saying here, but you may not want to recieve my witness, for if I tell you of earthly things, and you believe not, how should you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
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Webers_Home
Guest
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Jesus, of course, didn't speak with Nicodemus in koiné Greek but in either Aramaic or Hebrew so it's far more likely that Nicodemus understood the Lord a lot better than the internet's armchair linguists whose competency extends no further than a lexicon.
Buen Camino
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Anothen is an ambiguous word, and has been variously translated by competent linguists as: from the top to the bottom (Mtt 27:51) from the beginning (Luke 1:3) from above (John 3:31) and; all over again (Gal 4:9).
Jesus, of course, didn't speak with Nicodemus in koiné Greek but in either Aramaic or Hebrew so it's far more likely that Nicodemus understood the Lord a lot better than the internet's armchair linguists whose competency extends no further than a lexicon.
Buen Camino
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WOW! I have been a Christian for a lot of years--born again in Jr. High and fully surrendered to Christ in 1970. But some of you guys have some really novel ideas. Or I should say this doesn't seem to be the gospel that Paul preached if I understand you right. A birth from the higher mind within you? Show me that one in Scripture! Try good old fashiond repentance and receiveing Christ as your Lord and Savior! To THEM He gave the right to become children of God
And by the way, some armchair linguists have more understanding than some seminary professors. In fact one of my pastors led the esteemed president of his seminary to the Lord and the guy is now born again. And yes, this occured in Oregon, good neighbor.
This all leads me back to the maxim: "Those who think they know it all upset those of us who do!"
And by the way, some armchair linguists have more understanding than some seminary professors. In fact one of my pastors led the esteemed president of his seminary to the Lord and the guy is now born again. And yes, this occured in Oregon, good neighbor.
This all leads me back to the maxim: "Those who think they know it all upset those of us who do!"
Everyone can agree that the Messiah scolded Nicodemus for not knowing the concept of being “born again†or “born from above.†But hardly anyone stops to think why this Pharisee, “ruler of the Jews†and Torah teacher was scolded for not knowing. The reason is simple: to be “born againâ€was not a new idea, but was given and explained to us within the instructions given at Sinai!
In John 3, Messiah tells us that we must be born TWICE once through water, and once through the spirit. So where in the Torah is this taught? The first part is in Ex 20:8 where we are instructed to observe the Sabbath in remembrance of the Creation. We were all born of water at the Creation (scientists will tell us that all living things come from water, and our bodies are composed of 96% water.)
But it is when we get redemption that we are “born again†and our souls are saved. This concept is revealed to us in the repetition of the instruction to observe the Sabbath in Deut 5:12-15. But instead of telling us to remember the Creation, we are told in v 15 to “remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.†The deliverance out of Egypt is a picture of redemption = being “born again!â€
Therefore, as New Covenant believers, we should be observing the Sabbath in celebration of our redemption!
In John 3, Messiah tells us that we must be born TWICE once through water, and once through the spirit. So where in the Torah is this taught? The first part is in Ex 20:8 where we are instructed to observe the Sabbath in remembrance of the Creation. We were all born of water at the Creation (scientists will tell us that all living things come from water, and our bodies are composed of 96% water.)
But it is when we get redemption that we are “born again†and our souls are saved. This concept is revealed to us in the repetition of the instruction to observe the Sabbath in Deut 5:12-15. But instead of telling us to remember the Creation, we are told in v 15 to “remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.†The deliverance out of Egypt is a picture of redemption = being “born again!â€
Therefore, as New Covenant believers, we should be observing the Sabbath in celebration of our redemption!
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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The water of John 3:5 isn't for bathing, nor for washing, nor for baptizing, nor for farming and irrigation; no, rather, it's specifically for drinking.
†. John 4:10-14 . . Jesus replied; If you only knew the gift God has for you and who I am, you would ask me, and I would give you living water.
. . But sir, you don't have a rope or a bucket; she said; and this is a very deep well. Where would you get this living water? And besides, are you greater than our ancestor Jacob who gave us this well? How can you offer better water than he and his sons and his cattle enjoyed?
. . Jesus replied; People soon become thirsty again after drinking this water. But the water I give them takes away thirst altogether. It becomes a perpetual spring within them, giving them eternal life.
Ergo: the water of John 3:5 is eternal life. So then, people who don't have eternal life; have not yet undergone a second birth as per John 3:3-8 and are in grave danger of missing out on the kingdom of God.
Not only that; but according to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son: people who don't have eternal life; don't have His son; viz: they are quite christless.
†. 1John 5:11-12 . .And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life; whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.
Some Christians find 1John 5:11-12 impossible to accept because their minds have been long conditioned to think that people (the lucky ones) obtain eternal life in the next life sometime after their demise. But if that were true, then nobody in this life would have Christ; and that situation would be very critical.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Christless-ness is easy to remedy.
†. Rev 21:6 . . He said to me: It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
†. Rev 22:1 . . He showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say: Come! And let the one who hears say: Come! And let the one who is thirsty come-- let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Buen Camino
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The water of John 3:5 has been controversial for years. Some insist it's ritual baptism. Others insist it's amniotic fluid. Ironically; its chemistry is so simple that it's just amazing how many Bible students cannot identify it correctly when Jesus himself, in the very next chapter of John, told a promiscuous, pagan woman, precisely what the water is; though of course the explanation went right over her head.
The water of John 3:5 isn't for bathing, nor for washing, nor for baptizing, nor for farming and irrigation; no, rather, it's specifically for drinking.
†. John 4:10-14 . . Jesus replied; If you only knew the gift God has for you and who I am, you would ask me, and I would give you living water.
. . But sir, you don't have a rope or a bucket; she said; and this is a very deep well. Where would you get this living water? And besides, are you greater than our ancestor Jacob who gave us this well? How can you offer better water than he and his sons and his cattle enjoyed?
. . Jesus replied; People soon become thirsty again after drinking this water. But the water I give them takes away thirst altogether. It becomes a perpetual spring within them, giving them eternal life.
Ergo: the water of John 3:5 is eternal life. So then, people who don't have eternal life; have not yet undergone a second birth as per John 3:3-8 and are in grave danger of missing out on the kingdom of God.
Not only that; but according to God's testimony as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to His own son: people who don't have eternal life; don't have His son; viz: they are quite christless.
†. 1John 5:11-12 . .And this is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has the life; whoever does not have the life, does not have His son.
Some Christians find 1John 5:11-12 impossible to accept because their minds have been long conditioned to think that people (the lucky ones) obtain eternal life in the next life sometime after their demise. But if that were true, then nobody in this life would have Christ; and that situation would be very critical.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Christless-ness is easy to remedy.
†. Rev 21:6 . . He said to me: It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.
†. Rev 22:1 . . He showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
†. Rev 22:17 . .The Spirit and the bride say: Come! And let the one who hears say: Come! And let the one who is thirsty come-- let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Buen Camino
/
M
Mitspa
Guest
1Pe 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Eph 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1Pe 1:24
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
1Pe 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Eph 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Joh 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Its the New Birth, it is being begotten again by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
All for whom Christ died, were also raised up with Him in the Heavenly Places Eph 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
This Heavenly place is above where Jesus sits at the Right hand of God Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
This is where the New Birth comes from, it comes from above where Jesus Christ sits at the Right Hand of God as a Result of His Resurrection as Our Head, so everone whoeveryoneith Him Eph 2:6 are in time begotten again by or because of His Resurrection from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3 !
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
All for whom Christ died, were also raised up with Him in the Heavenly Places Eph 2:6
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
This Heavenly place is above where Jesus sits at the Right hand of God Col 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
This is where the New Birth comes from, it comes from above where Jesus Christ sits at the Right Hand of God as a Result of His Resurrection as Our Head, so everone whoeveryoneith Him Eph 2:6 are in time begotten again by or because of His Resurrection from the Dead 1 Pet 1:3 !
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xino
Member
Humans are flawed! There is no way we can be sinless.
"Let everyman be a lair"
which is the same as 1 John 1:8-10 that you posted.
and to read 1 John 3:9 CONTRADICTS the bible.
Because we always sin everyday, we are human and that is why we have to keep repenting to Jesus for forgiveness of sins.
What that passage was talking about is in conjunction to Romans.
How we were a slave to sin, like whatever we used to do as a sinfull -habbit-. For an example if you were always a thief who loves to steal things. Until you repent and you are born-again, that habbit of stealing will stop.
And the only usual sins you will be doing are just sins such as lying, anger, bad thoughts in the head etc.
But the conviction you were convicted with was the stealing which is a sin, that will cease.
there is no way one can live in this world and be sinless, you have to live on the mountains to be cut off from the world to be living a sinless life.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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†. 1 John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
†. 1 John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
What do you see there? Well; what you are supposed to see are essentially two very different human races each with its appropriate nature-- a race born of the earth with human nature, and a race born of heaven with divine nature: Adam the first man and Christ the last man; viz: old man and new man. In other words: born-again Christians, until they die, exist as the old man and the new man both at the same time; viz: they exist with human nature and with divine nature both at the same time; and the two natures are in constant conflict with one another because one is sinful while the other is not.
Buen Camino
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Compare the two statements below; bearing in mind that both were penned by the very same inspired writer.
†. 1 John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
†. 1 John 3:9 . .Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
What do you see there? Well; what you are supposed to see are essentially two very different human races each with its appropriate nature-- a race born of the earth with human nature, and a race born of heaven with divine nature: Adam the first man and Christ the last man; viz: old man and new man. In other words: born-again Christians, until they die, exist as the old man and the new man both at the same time; viz: they exist with human nature and with divine nature both at the same time; and the two natures are in constant conflict with one another because one is sinful while the other is not.
Buen Camino
/
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