What is a man?

[Butch5]

This may require another thread. I get my understanding of what a person is from Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

I understand that man consists of the elements of the earth. That he is infused with God's breath or spirit, same word. I believe that this combination of the man and the breath of God became a living soul. So, a soul is the whole person, body and breath of God. The spirit or breath in man is not man but God's. And man is simply a flesh being. So, I don't believe that man is immortal. I believe that when a man dies, the breath or spirit that God put in the man returns to God because it is something of God. When the breath leaves the soul the soul ceases to exist as it consists of two things the breath of God and the body. When one part is gone the soul ceases. I believe the body returns to the dust. So, that means when a man is dead, he is dead. He's not in Heaven or being tormented somewhere. He's not in a state of limbo. He's dead.

wondering

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Is this more about what man is, or what happens when we die?

Jesus teaches about heaven and hell, rewards from God in the next life, and punishments for wickedness. Jesus even talks about being born again of the spirit, and being spared of the second death. These things are either reliable and from Jesus, or they aren't and we have to question too much of what is in the gospels to rely on them.

Butch5, I'm not trying to discourage you from being a Christian, but I think your conclusions are wrong about heaven and hell. I say that based on what Jesus taught in the gospels,

As for what a person is. Oh geez, that's a big topic too. Said to be fearfully and wonderfully made, and made in the image of God. Yet we are also corrupted by sin and lean towards sin and evil throughout our being. So much so that God had to send Jesus to rescue us, because we can't rescue ourselves from our condition.

I've seen a lot of good come out of people. And some from the same people, I see a decent amount of bad too. "No one is perfect" is a catch phrase acknowledging our errors and asking for grace on people's mistakes and wrongs. And that sentiment is supported in the bible many times through encouraging people to be humble, forgive because we need forgiveness too, and a few other places too. Yet even with this condition there is more to mankind. God calls us out to be better. "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," sort of thing. In my opinion this being better then we are, is something that requires God's involvement in our life.

 

[Butch5]

Is this more about what man is, or what happens when we die?

Jesus teaches about heaven and hell, rewards from God in the next life, and punishments for wickedness. Jesus even talks about being born again of the spirit, and being spared of the second death. These things are either reliable and from Jesus, or they aren't and we have to question too much of what is in the gospels to rely on them.

Butch5, I'm not trying to discourage you from being a Christian, but I think your conclusions are wrong about heaven and hell. I say that based on what Jesus taught in the gospels,

As for what a person is. Oh geez, that's a big topic too. Said to be fearfully and wonderfully made, and made in the image of God. Yet we are also corrupted by sin and lean towards sin and evil throughout our being. So much so that God had to send Jesus to rescue us, because we can't rescue ourselves from our condition.

I've seen a lot of good come out of people. And some from the same people, I see a decent amount of bad too. "No one is perfect" is a catch phrase acknowledging our errors and asking for grace on people's mistakes and wrongs. And that sentiment is supported in the bible many times through encouraging people to be humble, forgive because we need forgiveness too, and a few other places too. Yet even with this condition there is more to mankind. God calls us out to be better. "Be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect," sort of thing. In my opinion this being better then we are, is something that requires God's involvement in our life.

The thread is about what a person is and if they live on after death. What I've said aligns with both Scripture and what Jesus said. Our preconceptions may lead us to other conclusions. When I talk about what a person is I'm not referring to character or actions, only to the actual make up of a living person.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

The thread is about what a person is and if they live on after death. What I've said aligns with both Scripture and what Jesus said. Our preconceptions may lead us to other conclusions. When I talk about what a person is I'm not referring to character or actions, only to the actual make up of a living person.

I'll have to look the verses up, but I know Jesus talks about living after we die.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Here are two verses to consider. The way I understand it they are talking about a life after death.

Mathew 6:19-21
19Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 21 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.

John 14:1-8
14 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. 2 There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

5 “No, we don’t know, Lord,” Thomas said. “We have no idea where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

One more to look at is in Luke 20:27-40, where a group of Sadducees challenged Jesus about the reserection.

But the main point I want to address is verses 37-38

Luke 20:37-38
But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”

 

[Butch5]

I'll have to look the verses up, but I know Jesus talks about living after we die.

Yes, He does. It is in the Resurrection. My point is that I believe that man is dead between death and the Resurrection. He is not alive or in a state of limbo. He is dead.

 

[Butch5]

Here are two verses to consider. The way I understand it they are talking about a life after death.

Mathew 6:19-21
19Don’t store up treasures here on earth, where moths eat them and rust destroys them, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 Store your treasures in heaven, where moths and rust cannot destroy, and thieves do not break in and steal. 21 Wherever your treasure is, there the desires of your heart will also be.

John 14:1-8
14 “Don’t let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, and trust also in me. 2 There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? 3 When everything is ready, I will come and get you, so that you will always be with me where I am. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.”

5 “No, we don’t know, Lord,” Thomas said. “We have no idea where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. 7 If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”

The only one I see that could have to do with an afterlife is John 14. But in that passage Jesus said He would come back so that they could be with Him. He didn't say they were going where He was. He said He would come back so that they could be with Him. In the previous chapter He had just told them that where He was going they couldn't go.

33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (Jn. 13:33-34 KJV)

 

[Butch5]

One more to look at is in Luke 20:27-40, where a group of Sadducees challenged Jesus about the reserection.

But the main point I want to address is verses 37-38

Luke 20:37-38
But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—even Moses proved this when he wrote about the burning bush. Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, he referred to the Lord as ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”

The living is a class of people. It doesn't necessitate that they are alive at that time. Jesus also spoke of people as the dead, who were very much alive.

21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matt. 8:21-22 KJV)

The living and the dead are often used metaphorically and as a class of people. This passage from Luke is specifically about the Resurrection, that the dead are raised. Jesus says that Moses saying that God is the God of the Living shows that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be raised from the dead. Also, notice Luke's comment, "for they are all alive to him". He's giving it from God's perspective. From God's perspective all live. What does that mean. Well, God can give or take life at will.

 

[Christ the King]

I believe the body returns to the dust. So, that means when a man is dead, he is dead. He's not in Heaven or being tormented somewhere. He's not in a state of limbo. He's dead.

The most important part of your statement here is "you believe". There isn't anywhere in the bible that says that, it's your opinion, your belief, based on one verse which u have speculated on.
There is however countless passages that refute your belief.

Is this a theory u read about or did u devise this yourself?

 

[Butch5]

The most important part of your statement here is "you believe". There isn't anywhere in the bible that says that, it's your opinion, your belief, based on one verse which u have speculated on.
There is however countless passages that refute your belief.

Is this a theory u read about or did u devise this yourself?

It's not speculation. It's stated plainly in Scripture. I gave you Gen 2:7. Moses describes the creation of man

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

My point is that I believe that man is dead between death and the Resurrection. He is not alive or in a state of limbo. He is dead.

I see. Thank you for that explanation. I misunderstood what you were saying. Staying dead before the reserection us a possibility. The only thing I can offer to say otherwise is in Jesus's parable of the rich man and the begger after they die. Since it was a parable I don't know how much to say this is how it'll be like when we die or not.

Either way, I've wondered if we stay dead until Jesus returns. I hope we get to see Jesus and God sooner then that, but I've wondered it all the same.

 

[Christ the King]

It's not speculation. It's stated plainly in Scripture. I gave you Gen 2:7. Moses describes the creation of man

And with that one verse on the creation of man you are speculating on what happens at the death of man.

U didn't answer my question, is this your interpretation or one you read about?

 

[GodsGrace]

This may require another thread. I get my understanding of what a person is from Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)

I understand that man consists of the elements of the earth. That he is infused with God's breath or spirit, same word. I believe that this combination of the man and the breath of God became a living soul. So, a soul is the whole person, body and breath of God. The spirit or breath in man is not man but God's. And man is simply a flesh being. So, I don't believe that man is immortal. I believe that when a man dies, the breath or spirit that God put in the man returns to God because it is something of God. When the breath leaves the soul the soul ceases to exist as it consists of two things the breath of God and the body. When one part is gone the soul ceases. I believe the body returns to the dust. So, that means when a man is dead, he is dead. He's not in Heaven or being tormented somewhere. He's not in a state of limbo. He's dead.

wondering

Hi B,
I don't know that we can glean all of our understanding of man from Genesis.

Genesis is trying to explain why we're separated from God and that God created everything.

Now, if you're a fundamentalist this conversation is going to get difficult... I mean, snakes talked? Maybe they did before the fall ---maybe the snake represented evil?

My point is that we know much more today than we did even 100 years ago.

So, let's take this one by one...in line with what I've been taught by two mainline churches, and with which I agree.

Do you believe we have a physical body?
What do you believe this body consists of?

 

[GodsGrace]

I see. Thank you for that explanation. I misunderstood what you were saying. Staying dead before the reserection us a possibility. The only thing I can offer to say otherwise is in Jesus's parable of the rich man and the begger after they die. Since it was a parable I don't know how much to say this is how it'll be like when we die or not.

Either way, I've wondered if we stay dead until Jesus returns. I hope we get to see Jesus and God sooner then that, but I've wondered it all the same.

Whether we awake right after death and see God,
or whether we awaken at the resurrection,,,to us it would seem like the same thing....it would feel like no time spent inbetween.

I believe we go directly to be with God....
I wonder if this could be a separate thread?

 

[Butch5]

I see. Thank you for that explanation. I misunderstood what you were saying. Staying dead before the reserection us a possibility. The only thing I can offer to say otherwise is in Jesus's parable of the rich man and the begger after they die. Since it was a parable I don't know how much to say this is how it'll be like when we die or not.

Either way, I've wondered if we stay dead until Jesus returns. I hope we get to see Jesus and God sooner then that, but I've wondered it all the same.

You're welcome! The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a little in depth. I'm sure I'll have to address it at some point.

 

[Butch5]

And with that one verse on the creation of man you are speculating on what happens at the death of man.

U didn't answer my question, is this your interpretation or one you read about?

The title of the thread is "What is a man"? The post came from another thread that was dealing with a slightly different subject. I didn't try to prove what happens at death based on Gen 2:7. That shows what a man is. There a plenty of passages that support this position in the Scriptures. There are also plenty of passages that show when a man is dead, he is dead.

I don't know where the interpretation came from, however, that's irrelevant. What matters is whether or not it's correct.

 

[GodsGrace]

You're welcome! The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a little in depth. I'm sure I'll have to address it at some point.

I don't believe it's a parable.
Theologians think that it's truth since Jesus used actual name.
He never used person's names when speaking in parables.

This will have to be discussed because it's one of the primary reasons that it is believed by most Christians that we go immediately to be where we belong.

 

[Butch5]

Hi B,
I don't know that we can glean all of our understanding of man from Genesis.

Genesis is trying to explain why we're separated from God and that God created everything.

Now, if you're a fundamentalist this conversation is going to get difficult... I mean, snakes talked? Maybe they did before the fall ---maybe the snake represented evil?

My point is that we know much more today than we did even 100 years ago.

So, let's take this one by one...in line with what I've been taught by two mainline churches, and with which I agree.

Do you believe we have a physical body?
What do you believe this body consists of?

Yeah, we have a body that consists of the elements of the earth.

 

[GodsGrace]

The most important part of your statement here is "you believe". There isn't anywhere in the bible that says that, it's your opinion, your belief, based on one verse which u have speculated on.
There is however countless passages that refute your belief.

Is this a theory u read about or did u devise this yourself?

The 7th Day Adventists SDA....believe in soul sleep.
A person dies, body soul spirit
and is revived at the resurrection.

If I'm not mistaken...I think they're the only Christian denomination that believes this.