What is Biblical Faith?

[Panin]

[

Are you saying that biblical faith enables us today to produce and manifest the miracles of Chirst?

Brother it matters not what I say, but this is what the Bible teaches: Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Surely you know that Gal 2:20 teaches us that we are no longer alive, but now its Christ that lives in us ? Now is that verse real ? or is it not ? Now if Christ really lives in you, you have the mind of Christ too 1Cr 2:16 ...... But we have the mind of Christ. without Christ you can do nothing. But Christ in you, can do all things.

Our only problem today is that we have stopped believing it. We think it is us that must perform, but its not. We have to learn that we are dead and that its now Christ that indeed lived in and through us. His resurrection live is available to all believers.

If it doesnt matter what you say, then why do you have so much to say?

I think you should be over in africa feeding the starving. Bring a few loafs and fishes with you, ye of little faith. When you get there give me a call and I'll send you over a few more.

Dude, we haven't been resurected yet, other wise we could walk through walls n stuff too.

 

[Cornelius]

[

Are you saying that biblical faith enables us today to produce and manifest the miracles of Chirst?

Brother it matters not what I say, but this is what the Bible teaches: Mat 17:20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Surely you know that Gal 2:20 teaches us that we are no longer alive, but now its Christ that lives in us ? Now is that verse real ? or is it not ? Now if Christ really lives in you, you have the mind of Christ too 1Cr 2:16 ...... But we have the mind of Christ. without Christ you can do nothing. But Christ in you, can do all things.

Our only problem today is that we have stopped believing it. We think it is us that must perform, but its not. We have to learn that we are dead and that its now Christ that indeed lived in and through us. His resurrection live is available to all believers.

If it doesnt matter what you say, then why do you have so much to say?

I think you should be over in africa feeding the starving. Bring a few loafs and fishes with you, ye of little faith. When you get there give me a call and I'll send you over a few more.

Dude, we haven't been resurected yet, other wise we could walk through walls n stuff too.

I am already in Africa that is where I live.

The interesting thing is that God does not stop because we fail to believe something. He just moves on to the next person who does.

There are so many testimonies available of these miracles in our modern day, I cannot believe people do not know about them. Corrie ten Boom's sister , during WW2 , had one small bottle of medicine that did not run out, even though she supplied the whole concentration camp with it during the war. Another family ate of one ham, during that same war. It never ran out. In the little book "Hey God! " there are SO many miracles of food multiplying, car running without petrol, and many other things that happen to one small lady who dared to believe God .

Once in our eternal bodies, we would not need any miracles. We need them now.

 

[Panin]

.

There are so many testimonies available of these miracles in our modern day, I cannot believe people do not know about them. Corrie ten Boom's sister , during WW2 , had one small bottle of medicine that did not run out, even though she supplied the whole concentration camp with it during the war. Another family ate of one ham, during that same war. It never ran out. In the little book "Hey God! " there are SO many miracles of food multiplying, car running without petrol, and many other things that happen to one small lady who dared to believe God .

Once in our eternal bodies, we would not need any miracles. We need them now.

Your in Africa already? Thats funny.

I dont put a lot of stock in those types of stories, they sound good yes, and off course I've heard of them too, raisng the dead even.

What miracles do we need today and why?

Also what did Christ mean when he said we will do greater things than even he?

When they asked Jesus how to do the works of God, Jesus said this, the whole work of God is to believe in Him who he hath sent. This is the miracle people need today.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

we still need faith and miracles today. I will tell you what, get in some trial, some hardship and see if a miracle wouldnt do you some good lol.

If you live your life for the kingdom of God seeking him first and you have no job and cant get one, no money and you have children who are hungry - see if you dont need to ask God for a miracle.

Or if you find out you have cancer, the world wants to poison you but Jesus promises healing and deliverance from poison, thats a good time to beleive God for a miracle.

Or you have promises from God about your husband but he dies and you did not yet recieve those promises, this is a good time to believe God to raise him up from the dead to fulfill His word.

It is very very sad to me, when christians do not believe the word of other saints testimonies when they glorify God.

I would suspect if we have no place in our lives for miracles and the power of God to work through our faith, doing things in our life that we could not have done and the world could not have done-that we are living entirely too worldly of lives and are not walking by faith.

We have an entire bible of testimonies of saints. Those who lived by faith, had a whole lifetime of Gods power manifested in their lives, with many miracles following them.

If you are in prison for your faith and you still have places God desires you preach his word, would a miracle not be needed to get oyou out or break you out like the angel did peter?


If someone tries to kill you for your faith but Gods purpose is that you still need to be used of Him and he intend to keep your life safe, does he not use a miracle? When we see ppl sick, and hurting and hungry should it not be our whole hearts desire in the love and compassion of God to go to them and eliver to them the kingdom of God to set them free by His power in a miracle?

 

[DarcyLu]

Biblical faith, changes reality as we know it.

Biblical faith can change physical substance and alter it. It can change water into wine and multiply bread. It can strengthen legs so that they can walk, it can open blind eyes so that they can see again.

yes, i absolutely agree! i have seen God fix things that were broken, He causes fuel to last longer (like the feeding of the 5,000) an over abundance! He heals illnesses, marriages, lives! if people refuse to see His miracles today, they are missing out on seeing His glory, His mercies and grace.

We have a God who wants to give us more, yet we settle for less, He wants to show His glory, but we don't want to see it.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

yes, i absolutely agree! i have seen God fix things that were broken, He causes fuel to last longer (like the feeding of the 5,000) an over abundance! He heals illnesses, marriages, lives! if people refuse to see His miracles today, they are missing out on seeing His glory, His mercies and grace.

We have a God who wants to give us more, yet we settle for less, He wants to show His glory, but we don't want to see it.

amen great post!!!!

i think the thing is that many dont really know the reason for miracles over all. There can also be a sence of false humility in some people. WHere they act humble like " i dont need a miracle i dont want to bother God, i dont need it i am willing to deal with it". but they dont realize that it is Gods will to bring His kingdom IN US and to others THROUGH US. This kingdom is free of the curse so His kingdom coming IN US and through us, brings deliverance from the curse to people and that is Gods will! TO SAVE DELIVER HEAL PROVIDE! to take people out of this cursed world and transform them physically and spiritually. To not want from God what He promises and desires us to have is a false humility. REal humility casts off its own ability and leans soley on God for all things.

 

[DarcyLu]

What miracles do we need today and why?

what are you, 12 and live in a glass house? lol
all u need to do is read the newspaper and see how we need miracles and some of us get to see them because we have faith He performs them, He heals, He delivers, and He provides. take a look around.

 

[Geo]

Have anyone noticed that some translations say "faith in Jesus Christ" but the KJ says faith OF Jesus Chirst?

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

What explains the origin of that faith. It's not our own imagination running wild. We can believe in confidence because it is the faith OF Jesus Chirst. How can He fail ?

 

[DarcyLu]

I believe strongly that physical healing is available for us today in faith. And experienced it also in my own family. But we have to be careful to understand faith correctly in that regard, because there is also a counterfeit of the enemy. We can not apply faith as a force (that feels like electricity) as taught in the W.O.F. movement (Benny Hinn etc.). They apply a will force as the source, what is actually a form of magic and NOT faith in the Holy Spirit.

There is a good little book online, that details the difference between the two, if someone needs to know I can find the link.

hi Geo, if you do not mind, i would like the link to check that book out. thank you.

 

[Geo]

found it:

"wonders" happen also in pagan and all other religions. How do they work?
How to discern if a miracle in the church is genuine or witchcraft ?

The Latent Power of the Soul by Watchman Nee

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/n ... 0634.c.htm

 

[glorydaz]

found it:

"wonders" happen also in pagan and all other religions. How do they work?
How to discern if a miracle is the church is genuine or witchcraft ?

The Latent Power of the Soul by Watchman Nee

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/n ... 0634.c.htm

Watchman Nee....Yes....a wonderful brother in the Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

Have anyone noticed that some translations say "faith in Jesus Christ" but the KJ says faith OF Jesus Chirst?

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

What explains the origin of that faith. It's not our own imagination running wild. We can believe in confidence because it is the faith OF Jesus Chirst. How can He fail ?

Yes, it is the faith of Christ. The work of salvation is His alone. We are saved by grace, it's His faith that does the work...not ours. Man just loves to take credit for his own salvation. God persuades and draws and gives revelation through His word.

Man can take no credit for grace or faith...they are gifts so no man can boast.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

A measure of faith is given to all men, so we can respond to God's drawing through His word and it can be revealed to us so we can believe. We call it our faith because His faith has been bestowed on us through the Spirit. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is faith...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[DarcyLu]

found it:

"wonders" happen also in pagan and all other religions. How do they work?
How to discern if a miracle in the church is genuine or witchcraft ?

The Latent Power of the Soul by Watchman Nee

http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/n ... 0634.c.htm

thank you Geo!!!

 

[DarcyLu]

Have anyone noticed that some translations say "faith in Jesus Christ" but the KJ says faith OF Jesus Chirst?

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

What explains the origin of that faith. It's not our own imagination running wild. We can believe in confidence because it is the faith OF Jesus Chirst. How can He fail ?

this is really profound if you think about it as many (me included) tend to place the faith on US - for instance, we do not have faith for that, yet it is not that at all, it's how much do we believe Jesus lives in us and is working through us, believing it is HIS faith, how much do we believe we are conforming to His image. when Jesus tells us we can do all He can do and more, it is because He knew it was His faith we have all along and nothing of ourselves. so we could say something like healing is possible and can happen because it is His faith and He always did heal in the NT.
right?
a few years ago as a teen-ager, a Baptist pastor told me that we should be able to raise the dead and he showed me that verse and i believed it! yet, i've never had the opportunity.

 

[glorydaz]

Have anyone noticed that some translations say "faith in Jesus Christ" but the KJ says faith OF Jesus Chirst?

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

What explains the origin of that faith. It's not our own imagination running wild. We can believe in confidence because it is the faith OF Jesus Chirst. How can He fail ?

this is really profound if you think about it as many (me included) tend to place the faith on US - for instance, we do not have faith for that, yet it is not that at all, it's how much do we believe Jesus lives in us and is working through us, believing it is HIS faith, how much do we believe we are conforming to His image. when Jesus tells us we can do all He can do and more, it is because He knew it was His faith we have all along and nothing of ourselves. so we could say something like healing is possible and can happen because it is His faith and He always did heal in the NT.
right?
a few years ago as a teen-ager, a Baptist pastor told me that we should be able to raise the dead and he showed me that verse and i believed it! yet, i've never had the opportunity.

Special miracles were given during the early church age...now we have the Word of God.

God does, indeed, still work miracles, but raising the dead isn't one of them. It isn't our lack of faith that keeps that from happening, it's a matter of when God chooses to manifest certain miracles. God works within His natural order except when He's showing forth His majesty. He parted the Red Sea in order to show His power. Jesus allowed Peter to walk on the water to show forth His power. The true miracles of God we see today, or any other point in history when God doesn't have a specific purpose, will always be in accord with the natural law. He will heal a leg, but not regrow one. He will cure cancer, but not raise someone from the dead. We're not to test the Lord by saying it's a lack of faith that He doesn't allow us to defy gravity by jumping off a cliff.

 

[Cornelius]

Have anyone noticed that some translations say "faith in Jesus Christ" but the KJ says faith OF Jesus Chirst?

Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

What explains the origin of that faith. It's not our own imagination running wild. We can believe in confidence because it is the faith OF Jesus Chirst. How can He fail ?

The numeric pattern tells us that it is actually "faith in Christ" But your point is correct. We also have the faith OF Christ is indeed we are IN Christ and He is IN us. That is logical and encouraging ! We have the mind of Christ and we have the faith of Christ.

Now some will say, if that is so, why do I not do the works of Christ ?

The answer is that we only can manifest that what we believe. I believe I have the faith of Christ, but at this moment in my maturity (or lack of it) I can only believe that to a point. I see in my life, that I still lack much. But this does not stop me from pursuing that which God says I have. So I use the faith that God gave me in the beginning (a measure of faith) and with that I KEEP ON PRAYING. I keep praying that God Himself must help me to come to this place in faith, which I see in the Word.

Many give up before they even start. They give up, because of a lack of knowledge. We need true knowledge of the Word, then we need to mix it with faith (or it will not work)

The Christian walk IS a walk in the miraculous.

 

[Panin]

we still need faith and miracles today. I will tell you what, get in some trial, some hardship and see if a miracle wouldnt do you some good lol.

If you live your life for the kingdom of God seeking him first and you have no job and cant get one, no money and you have children who are hungry - see if you dont need to ask God for a miracle.

Or if you find out you have cancer, the world wants to poison you but Jesus promises healing and deliverance from poison, thats a good time to beleive God for a miracle.

Or you have promises from God about your husband but he dies and you did not yet recieve those promises, this is a good time to believe God to raise him up from the dead to fulfill His word.

It is very very sad to me, when christians do not believe the word of other saints testimonies when they glorify God.

I would suspect if we have no place in our lives for miracles and the power of God to work through our faith, doing things in our life that we could not have done and the world could not have done-that we are living entirely too worldly of lives and are not walking by faith.

We have an entire bible of testimonies of saints. Those who lived by faith, had a whole lifetime of Gods power manifested in their lives, with many miracles following them.

If you are in prison for your faith and you still have places God desires you preach his word, would a miracle not be needed to get oyou out or break you out like the angel did peter?


If someone tries to kill you for your faith but Gods purpose is that you still need to be used of Him and he intend to keep your life safe, does he not use a miracle? When we see ppl sick, and hurting and hungry should it not be our whole hearts desire in the love and compassion of God to go to them and eliver to them the kingdom of God to set them free by His power in a miracle?

Im not disputing the biblical reality of miracles, nor am I disputing that miracles happen every day in peoples life, nor am I saying that I have not experienced miracles in my own life, because I have.

That said the topic is about biblical faith, not miracles. Do we need miracles in our lives in order to have biblical faith? NO. Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not yet seen.

I take issue with the preaching of prosperity Doctines and the like. IE if you are not weathly you have no faith, or if you are not experiencing miracles you have no faith etc. This is my point that I am bringing to the table. I dont really know what you are laughing about.

Not everyone who gets cancer; believer or unbeliver is going to receive a miracle. One could then argue is the one who does and the one who doesn't more favoured or more faithful? If some one claims to have the gift of healing and many do, why then are our hospitals full of sick and dieing people?

We hear people say that "God spared me in plane crash its a miracle". Thats great, but what about the other 100 passengers that died?

That said, the mere fact that we are standing on a huge round sphere held up by nothing and that we are even here to experience life is a miracle. Everything about our existance as human beings is a miracle.

 

[Cornelius]

Special miracles were given during the early church age...now we have the Word of God.

God does, indeed, still work miracles, but raising the dead isn't one of them. It isn't our lack of faith that keeps that from happening, it's a matter of when God chooses to manifest certain miracles. God works within His natural order except when He's showing forth His majesty. He parted the Red Sea in order to show His power. Jesus allowed Peter to walk on the water to show forth His power. The true miracles of God we see today, or any other point in history when God doesn't have a specific purpose, will always be in accord with the natural law. He will heal a leg, but not regrow one. He will cure cancer, but not raise someone from the dead. We're not to test the Lord by saying it's a lack of faith that He doesn't allow us to defy gravity by jumping off a cliff.

God raised a man from the dead in a church I attended. Two doctors were present in that service and so were 2000 other people. He died during the service and the doctors took the dead man to the back. Then some other members gathered and prayed and God raised him up again.

You cannot jump off a cliff and expect God to save you, but if you fall off a cliff, you can expect Him to save you.

I met Mel Tari some years ago and in his country , during the revival, people walked on water, water changed into wine, the dead were raised. We need to wake up to the reality of what God is actually saying in His Word !

Like a Mighty Wind
by Mel Tari, 1971
Like a Mighty Wind

From the publisher’s notes:

Water turned into wine...Men raised from the dead...The ability to eat poison and not be harmed; to walk across a river 30 feet deep...

Miracles like these, performed in Biblical times, have often been written off for the 1970’s. But they are happening today (1971) as men, women and children simply believe God and act on His promises.

The place? Indonesia—a network of islands in the Pacific now in the midst of what may be the greatest revival of the 20th century.

The Indonesian Bible Society which tries to chart the results has found it impossible to keep up with the statistics. Churches in Central Java, for example, which reported 30,000 members in 1961 now number more than 100,000—almost doubling annually.

Revival began in the city of Soe on the island of Timor in the Lesser Sunda group and is continuing through the work of evangelistic teams.

One of the men who is going out is Melchoir Tari, better known as Mel, who was 18 when the revival started. Mel has now crisscrossed the United States and Europe, depending only on God to supply his needs. —Publisher's note, 1971

By 2005, the revival of those days had long since died out. There were however, still Christians in that part of the world who reported miraculous deliverance from the massive tsunami that hit that region.

Although the events related by Mel Tari happened over 30 years ago, they stand as a witness that God still works wonders — even in modern times.
[/quote ]
http://www.indwelt.com/display/08922112 ... ghty-Wind/

 

[Panin]

God raised a man from the dead in a church I attended. Two doctors were present in that service and so were 2000 other people. He died during the service and the doctors took the dead man to the back. Then some other members gathered and prayed and God raised him up again.

Two doctors brought him back to life with the aid of medical understanding. It happens every day in Hospitals. This is not necessarily a miracle.

A woman in our church was dieing of a heart problem, the church prayed for her daily, she was miraculously healed, and as a result the heart surgeon got down on his knees with our paster and received Christ. He could not deny that a miracle occured. Still she died a year later, but her last year was the result of a miracle.

Miracles can be defined and confirmed by secular science as miracles as well, but not all so called miracles are miracles.

[quote:urutmv7w]I met Mel Tari some years ago and in his country , during the revival, people walked on water, water changed into wine, the dead were raised.

[/quote:urutmv7w]

You met him and witnessed this? Or you met Him he and he told you this happened? Sorry Borther, I dont believe this. Not that Im saying it couldn't happen, I just dont believe it did. There are untold stories going around like this, I gave up on them decades ago, because there is never any documented evidence to prove it ever happened. It's all hearsay.

NAd no disrepect to Mel, but he would have earned a pretty good living criss crossing America telling stories like this and living of love offerings from the brothers in Christ.

I know I am very cynical, but I've been there and done that, with these miracles accounts in far off distant lands.

I prefer the documented accounts of missionaries preaching the gosple to lost tribes and the whole tribe ends up getting saved. The miracles we need to be focusing on is the salvation of the lost. Accounts of miracles in far of distant lands, and people not running our of petrol doesnt lead someone to salvation in Christ. It may stir peoples interest but I dont think it achieves much more than that.

 

[Cornelius]

God raised a man from the dead in a church I attended. Two doctors were present in that service and so were 2000 other people. He died during the service and the doctors took the dead man to the back. Then some other members gathered and prayed and God raised him up again.

Two doctors brought him back to life with the aid of medical understanding. It happens every day in Hospitals. This is not necessarily a miracle.

A woman in our church was dieing of a heart problem, the church prayed for her daily, she was miraculously healed, and as a result the heart surgeon got down on his knees with our paster and received Christ. He could not deny that a miracle occured. Still she died a year later, but her last year was the result of a miracle.

Miracles can be defined and confirmed by secular science as miracles as well, but not all so called miracles are miracles.

[quote:hyy72h6k]I met Mel Tari some years ago and in his country , during the revival, people walked on water, water changed into wine, the dead were raised.

You met him and witnessed this? Or you met Him he and he told you this happened? Sorry Borther, I dont believe this. Not that Im saying it count happen, I just dont believe it did. There are untold stories going around like this, I gave up on them decades ago, because there is never any documented evidence to prove it ever happened. It's all hearsay.[/quote:hyy72h6k]

You do realize that faith does not come by seeing ? It comes by hearing and that "hearing" comes through the Word of God. Some can hear the Word without ever "hearing". That is why the Bible teaches Act 28:26 saying, Go thou unto this people, and say, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall in no wise understand; And seeing ye shall see, and shall in no wise perceive:

Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, And their ears are dull of hearing, And their eyes they have closed; Lest haply they should perceive with their eyes, And hear with their ears, And understand with their heart, And should turn again, And I should heal them.



Here ...............I will prove it to you. I will give you a link with video documentation of healing and you will still not believe it is so: See for yourself:

http://www.christian-faith.com/miraclevideos/index.html