What is Election?

[Rollo Tamasi]

God has the power, the privilege, and the right to decide who receives eternal life.
He has determined that it is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we become elected.
He predestined this process before time began.

How does it work?
Romans 9:16;
"So it depends not on human will or exertion, But on God, who has mercy".

By God's grace, he has mercy on us.
We can turn to Jesus and be saved.
We become chosen.
This salvation was predestined for us.

God is great!

Comments?

 

[chessman]

God has the power, the privilege, and the right to decide who receives eternal life.


God is great!

Comments?

Amen. Likes. Double likes. Double thumbs up. What a great truth to wake up to this AM, as you and I wait:

Genesis 49:18 (ESV)
I wait for your salvation, O Lord.
Psalm 3:8 (ESV)
Salvation belongs to the Lord; your blessing be on your people! Selah​

We're just doing the best we can at life and worship as we wait on His salvation:

Exodus 15:2 (ESV)
The Lord is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation; this is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God, and I will exalt him.
2 Samuel 22:47 (ESV)
The Lord lives, and blessed be my rock, and exalted be my God, the rock of my salvation,
Psalm 35:9 (ESV)
Then my soul will rejoice in the Lord, exulting in his salvation.​

My prayer is:

Psalm 40:16 (ESV)
But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you; may those who love your salvation say continually, “Great is the Lord!”​

Sadly though, I’m pragmatic. I predict some “Yes, Great is the Lord” folks will comment that God is indeed Great, but I’m pretty darn good as well. Don’t I do a lot each and every day to earn my salvation, and keep it?

Psalm 68:19 (ESV)
Blessed be the Lord, who daily bears us up; God is our salvation.
Psalm 68:20
Our God is a God of salvation, and to God, the Lord, belong deliverances from death.​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God has the power, the privilege, and the right to decide who receives eternal life.
He has determined that it is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ that we become elected.
He predestined this process before time began.

How does it work?
Romans 9:16;
"So it depends not on human will or exertion, But on God, who has mercy".

By God's grace, he has mercy on us.
We can turn to Jesus and be saved.
We become chosen.
This salvation was predestined for us.

God is great!

Comments?

Do you see a difference between God purposely saving some, while not others, or simply knowing ahead of time who will respond to the gospel and who will not?

I think it would be good to know how 'getting elected' works for us to know what the Bible means by 'the elect'. Obviously, if God never had an election nobody could make themselves elected, so the grace of God in that regard is clear.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Being elected--being chosen.

Same thing, right?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Being elected--being chosen.

Same thing, right?

I think so, I think so, and I think so.
I was expecting you to tell me.

 

[Tristan]

There is an important distinction between God deciding beforehand and God knowing beforehand.

I personally believe (and can back up scripturally) that God knows beforehand and leaves it to us to decide whether or not to accept the gift of salvation. It is accepted by faith and faith alone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I think so, I think so, and I think so.
I was expecting you to tell me.

Honestly, I've never liked the subject. I'm a pragmatist and have never seen much value in the argument. But apparently people use it to rationalize away, for example, James' teaching that only the faith that obeys can save a person. The thinking being that the grace of salvation is so gracious and utterly outside of ourselves and what we have done, and can do that James really doesn't know what he's talking about.

But let's keep the discussion on the principles of election itself. I want to fully understand what people think that means before I chime in. For me, you have to understand how, for example, a politician is 'elected', or 'chosen' to understand election in regard to salvation. Am I wrong?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is an important distinction between God deciding beforehand and God knowing beforehand.

I personally believe (and can back up scripturally) that God knows beforehand and leaves it to us to decide whether or not to accept the gift of salvation. It is accepted by faith and faith alone.

Well, this is really where I'm at in this present time concerning the subject.

Perhaps the 'deciding' that God did for me is similar to how we 'decided' Obama was going to be our President. He ran for office and was chosen by us.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Honestly, I've never liked the subject. I'm a pragmatist and have never seen much value in the argument. But apparently people use it to rationalize away, for example, James' teaching that only the faith that obeys can save a person. The thinking being that the grace of salvation is so gracious and utterly outside of ourselves and what we have done, and can do that James really doesn't know what he's talking about.

But let's keep the discussion on the principles of election itself. I want to fully understand what people think that means before I chime in. For me, you have to understand how, for example, a politician is 'elected', or 'chosen' to understand election in regard to salvation. Am I wrong?

In that sense it never made sense.
One of my first debates eons ago was an old friend telling me he's not chosen, therefore how can he get saved?
He was very confusing.
If you need to be chosen and he's not saved, then he must not be chosen, right?

If God chose before time began who would get saved and who wouldn't, then there's nothing we can do about it, right?

I guess the hardest thing is to make sense of it all with Scripture.
Just as, "I thought once I got saved that God would heal me of everything but he didn't".

Some things are meant to test our faith I guess, I don't know.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know that Zain says that if you are disobedient you are showing yourself to not be among the elect.

 

[Tristan]

You choose whether or not to have faith and let the Holy Spirit change you. The Holy Spirit will do work through you regardless (God is the potter after all), but your salvation and election is based on your rational choice or non-choice. God just knows in advance.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

One of my first debates eons ago was an old friend telling me he's not chosen, therefore how can he get saved?
He was very confusing.
If you need to be chosen and he's not saved, then he must not be chosen, right?

How can one argue with that?

If God chose before time began who would get saved and who wouldn't, then there's nothing we can do about it, right?

The key word here being 'chose'. Why does 'chose' HAVE to mean completely and utterly apart from any conscious input whatsoever of the person being chosen?

What's wrong with faith being that which makes a person worthy to be chosen/ elected/ appointed to salvation?

I guess the hardest thing is to make sense of it all with Scripture.
Just as, "I thought once I got saved that God would heal me of everything but he didn't".

Some things are meant to test our faith I guess, I don't know.

Well, 'I don't know' is prolly one of the smartest answers there is in a theological discussion.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You choose whether or not to have faith and let the Holy Spirit change you.

Which means you chose whether or not you will retain the faith that God gives to all people he has called to salvation.

The message of Christ, with the power of faith accompanying it, is the calling that goes out into all the world. Those who hear and retain that faith are the ones who are saved. Many are called, few are chosen.

Are we on the same page?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Which means you chose whether or not you will retain the faith that God gives to all people he has called to salvation.

The message of Christ, with the power of faith accompanying it, is the calling that goes out into all the world. Those who hear and retain that faith are the ones who are saved. Many are called, few are chosen.

Are we on the same page?

YES, YES YES, YES YES!

 

[Tristan]

Precisely. It makes way more sense to me that grace is offered for everyone, and that those who chose it are few.

 

[Sinthesis]

There is a difference between being elected and being drafted. The elected have to chose to put their name on the ballot. Joining the winning party so to speak, with Jesus at the head of the ticket.

 

[Chopper]

Allen, Thank you for this thread. Not many are willing to discuss election because it's so confusing. It does not have to be that way at all. The theology of election is explained in the entire Chapter of Romans nine. In order to understand election, one has to study the entire Chapter.

The key Verse is v.27. "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved". The mystery of a remnant answers the mystery of election. God has always had a remnant of followers of His divine ways. God chooses the ones who will be His followers! He does not choose everyone, only a few. Why election? Why does He choose certain people in every generation? Good question!

Before the foundation of the world, we are told in various parts of Scripture, God chooses certain people to love Him and obey, as much as possible, His ways, commandments, Laws and so forth. You see, in every generation, God needs these "believers" to represent Him. They are the ones who will show what God is like and how mankind should live in a wicked world they live in. The "chosen" or "elect" are God's representatives born in a generation of His choice. This means that you were not born in an earlier time or a later time, you were born in this generation! He needs you to show your family, friends, workers, etc. who God is. And perhaps they will want to believe in the God you represent.

Now we come to everyone else, outside of His remnant of elect believers. They are not called to be a part of the chosen remnant, but are called to be believers in Jesus through your testimony. There is a call to Salvation that goes out through you because God is not willing that any perish, right? Guess what? You will always be a messenger of the Good News. Their Salvation is our mission. God has gifted every one of the chosen to reach our sphere of influence for Jesus. Salvation then, is their responsibility whether they will accept the free gift of Salvation or not.

I hope this helps.

 

[Deborah13]

Allen, Thank you for this thread. Not many are willing to discuss election because it's so confusing. It does not have to be that way at all. The theology of election is explained in the entire Chapter of Romans nine. In order to understand election, one has to study the entire Chapter.

The key Verse is v.27. "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved". The mystery of a remnant answers the mystery of election. God has always had a remnant of followers of His divine ways. God chooses the ones who will be His followers! He does not choose everyone, only a few. Why election? Why does He choose certain people in every generation? Good question!

Before the foundation of the world, we are told in various parts of Scripture, God chooses certain people to love Him and obey, as much as possible, His ways, commandments, Laws and so forth. You see, in every generation, God needs these "believers" to represent Him. They are the ones who will show what God is like and how mankind should live in a wicked world they live in. The "chosen" or "elect" are God's representatives born in a generation of His choice. This means that you were not born in an earlier time or a later time, you were born in this generation! He needs you to show your family, friends, workers, etc. who God is. And perhaps they will want to believe in the God you represent.

Now we come to everyone else, outside of His remnant of elect believers. They are not called to be a part of the chosen remnant, but are called to be believers in Jesus through your testimony. There is a call to Salvation that goes out through you because God is not willing that any perish, right? Guess what? You will always be a messenger of the Good News. Their Salvation is our mission. God has gifted every one of the chosen to reach our sphere of influence for Jesus. Salvation then, is their responsibility whether they will accept the free gift of Salvation or not.

I hope this helps.

Hi Chopper. What is the supporting scripture for this part of your doctrine, of two separate groups of believers? Thanks, Deb

"Now we come to everyone else, outside of His remnant of elect believers. They are not called to be a part of the chosen remnant, but are called to be believers in Jesus through your testimony. There is a call to Salvation that goes out through you because God is not willing that any perish, right? Guess what? You will always be a messenger of the Good News. Their Salvation is our mission. God has gifted every one of the chosen to reach our sphere of influence for Jesus. Salvation then, is their responsibility whether they will accept the free gift of Salvation or not."

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper. What is the supporting scripture for this part of your doctrine, of two separate groups of believers? Thanks, Deb

"Now we come to everyone else, outside of His remnant of elect believers. They are not called to be a part of the chosen remnant, but are called to be believers in Jesus through your testimony. There is a call to Salvation that goes out through you because God is not willing that any perish, right? Guess what? You will always be a messenger of the Good News. Their Salvation is our mission. God has gifted every one of the chosen to reach our sphere of influence for Jesus. Salvation then, is their responsibility whether they will accept the free gift of Salvation or not."

Deb, If you look closely at the key Scripture v.27 of Romans you will see the word "remnant". A remnant cannot include everyone, right? And in God's eyes they don't. He said "as the sand of the sea" That is everyone. Now, out of everyone, He choses a small group called a remnant. OK, what about the rest? He did not include the many. Are the many lost forever? No, in the O.T. people who were not Jewish, had the right to become proselytes. They chose of their own free will. Just like that, today we have a remnant, chose by God before the foundation of the world. His choice is not everyone, just a few, as I explained. What about those He didn't choose to be a part of the chosen remnant? They have a choice, just like the proselyte of the O.T. Today we look at the Scripture 2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) "The Lord is............not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance". So my two Scriptures that depict both groups of people are Romans 9:27 and 2 Peter 3:9. Does this answer your question? I am trying to keep this simple and to the point.

Love you Sister.

 

[Deborah13]

Deb, If you look closely at the key Scripture v.27 of Romans you will see the word "remnant". A remnant cannot include everyone, right? And in God's eyes they don't. He said "as the sand of the sea" That is everyone. Now, out of everyone, He choses a small group called a remnant. OK, what about the rest? He did not include the many. Are the many lost forever? No, in the O.T. people who were not Jewish, had the right to become proselytes. They chose of their own free will. Just like that, today we have a remnant, chose by God before the foundation of the world. His choice is not everyone, just a few, as I explained. What about those He didn't choose to be a part of the chosen remnant? They have a choice, just like the proselyte of the O.T. Today we look at the Scripture 2 Peter 3:9 (ESV) "The Lord is............not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance". So my two Scriptures that depict both groups of people are Romans 9:27 and 2 Peter 3:9. Does this answer your question? I am trying to keep this simple and to the point.

Love you Sister.

Thank you, Chopper for your reply.
Love you too, Brother.