what is hell?

[Pizzaguy]

post deleted

 

[Alabaster]

<o>:p</o>:p
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Satan has obviously blinded you with the folly of your own doctrine. If evil is only confined, then it is still in God’s presence if you don’t tell God that He cannot enter into this place of confinement. And you, a mere human being, cannot dictate to God what He can and cannot do.

I don't think you really understand what God says, or who He is. You are more than willing to deny Him than believe Him.

He will one day cast all sin, all evil, and death into the Lake of Fire He has created and which awaits that day. It will be outside of His glory.

When I take my garbage out to the curb, it's out of my presence for good. Do judges go to the prisons they send murderers to? Why would they?

God has no reason to grace His presence among those who are damned. Your arguments are absurd.

Try answering your own question: How will God put away evil and evildoers forever?

You are essentially saying God has created a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift.

That is neither here nor there. I repeat: God has created hell as a place for condemnation---far away from Him.

In this case it is you that are limiting what God can and cannot will and will not do. You have such a hardened heart that you cannot love your enemies. You cannot wait to see your enemies writhing in torment.

God sets limits for Himself, and in His perfection, He abides by His own self-imposed limitations.

How I respond to my enemies is none of your concern, nor is it germane to this discussion. God tells us we must show love to them.

I love the lost and seek always to be used to bring the light of the Gospel to them. As anyone with the love of Christ in them, I shudder to think of those millions who will be condemned by God. He doesn't look forward to it either.

Your hardened state is evident in your uncalled-for criticisms. I suggest you stick to the topic.

God may choose to not do something, but that is not the same thing as God putting limitations on Himself. Any limitations placed on God’s ability to do something, regardless of whom it is that is placing the limitation, negates God’s existence. Limit what God can do and He ceases to be the supreme omnipotent being.

God limits His dealings with mankind to the use of human beings who love His Son, Jesus Christ. That amazing trust He has in His people makes Him huge in my eyes.

<o>

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BTW: Your condescending attitude is neither appreciated, nor called for. I don’t accept your doctrine, but that is no reason to treat me like a child or a fool.

What doctrine is that? Salvation vs Damnation?

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour?




I am not condescending. However, you appear very anti-God and belligerence is simmering just beneath your posts. I will always stand against that.

You have shown no intelligent argument for anything, but are merely doling out gratuitous scorn. Not attractive.

 

[betteroffdead]

post deleted

Whose post?

 

[betteroffdead]

I don't think you really understand what God says, or who He is. You are more than willing to deny Him than believe Him.

My conversation with you is ended. Your hostility towards me simply because I may not accept your doctrine speaks volumes against your doctrine.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

[Alabaster]

[/B]

My conversation with you is ended. Your hostility towards me simply because I may not accept your doctrine speaks volumes against your doctrine.ffice:office" /><o>:p></o>:p>

What doctrine is that? That God burns with wrath against wickedness and desires to punish it?

That's your prerogative, but I see hostility against my Father in your posts. I think that hurts His heart very much.

 

[betteroffdead]

If the Bible really says that sinners will suffer eternal physical hellfire, and such language in the Bible is not simply figurative, is there any documentation outside of the Bible that eternal hellfire for sinners is what 1<SUP>st</SUP> and 2<SUP>nd</SUP> century Christians believed? What documentation do we have apart from the Bible that eternal hellfire is what Christians have always believed?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
Is there any documentation outside of the King James Bible that eternal hellfire is what the King James Translators believed? How do we today know that the AKJ is an accurate translation and not simply the product of the personal (and possibly false) doctrines of its translators?

 

[betteroffdead]

I want to ask everyone here a point blank question:
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Do you want unrepentant sinners to suffer eternal torment in physical hellfire?<o:p></o:p>

A simple yes or no answer is all I am asking for. I am not asking for any kind of explanation for why you answer the way you do.<o:p></o:p>

 

[handy]

Do you want unrepentant sinners to suffer eternal torment in physical hellfire?

No.

But, since I'm the chatty type, I'll go ahead and explain why...no, I don't want unrepentant sinners to suffer eternal torment in physical hellfire, because my Lord doesn't desire this. He doesn't desire anyone to suffer eternal torment in hellfire, which was why He sent His Son, that no one need to.

Unfortunately, there are those who will reject the only way to NOT suffer eternal hellfire, because they would much rather grasp to their sin rather than repent...hence the "unrepentant" status.

Now, because I'm honest, I'll admit, would I want them to suffer if it weren't for God? Yeah...yes I would. I would because I have suffered from those who are unrepentant in their sin. The world has suffered because of them. People have been tortured, hurt beyond repair, murdered, etc.

If it weren't for God, I would be irrepairably damaged because of what I've suffered at the hands of unrepentant sinners...would I desire their eternal torment? I'd have to say I would, but since God repaired me, and since He does not desire this...then I don't desire it either...but I do recognize God's justice when His mercy and grace is rejected and trampled upon.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Do you want unrepentant sinners to suffer eternal torment in physical hellfire?<o></o>

No. And I'm unsure of what I believe in so far as eternal suffering.

I'd like to see Drew make his case - and I hope he can convince me that the 'lost' are annihilated.

 

[Alabaster]

I want to ask everyone here a point blank question:
ffice:office" /><o>:p></o>:p>
Do you want unrepentant sinners to suffer eternal torment in physical hellfire?<o>:p></o>:p>

A simple yes or no answer is all I am asking for. I am not asking for any kind of explanation for why you answer the way you do.<o>:p></o>:p>

Because the Lord Himself says He doesn't wish for anyone to perish, I must follow His lead.

2 Peter 3:9 NLT
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.

 

[Alabaster]

If the Bible really says that sinners will suffer eternal physical hellfire, and such language in the Bible is not simply figurative, is there any documentation outside of the Bible that eternal hellfire for sinners is what 1^st and 2^nd century Christians believed? What documentation do we have apart from the Bible that eternal hellfire is what Christians have always believed?
ffice:office" /><o>:p></o>:p>
Is there any documentation outside of the King James Bible that eternal hellfire is what the King James Translators believed? How do we today know that the AKJ is an accurate translation and not simply the product of the personal (and possibly false) doctrines of its translators?

You have to trust that God is perfectly able to preserve and conserve His word. If one cannot depend on the inerrant, living written word He lovingly provided, then what does one stand on?

 

[betteroffdead]

Note what God told Adam and Eve in Genesis 2:17:
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But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Since Adam and Eve did not physically die on the day they ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the immediate death that God warned them about had to be spiritual death, i.e. their souls died the day that Adam and Eve sinned.
<o:p> </o:p>
So when did simple death for the soul as punishment for sin become eternal torment for the soul as punishment for sin, and what right did God have to change the rules in the middle of the game? If physical torment for all eternity is the penalty for sin, why didn’t God tell Adam and Eve that their souls would suffer eternal torment if they disobeyed Him?
<o:p> </o:p>

 

[Pizzaguy]

Whose post?

I deleted my own post.

I'd rather watch this thread than participate in it. For now.

 

[Alabaster]

what right did God have to change the rules in the middle of the game? If physical torment for all eternity is the penalty for sin, why didn’t God tell Adam and Eve that their souls would suffer eternal torment if they disobeyed Him?
<o>:p></o>:p>

What right does anyone have to ask what right God has to do anything?

Middle of what game? The rule was set down at the BEGINNING. Before their sin they were living lives that were not subject to death at all.

 

[Alabaster]

I deleted my own post.

I'd rather watch this thread than participate in it. For now.

 

[tim-from-pa]

I couldn't get past the first point in your conclusions.

The body is mortal. It dies and returns to dust. The soul and spirit is immortal, for upon death these parts of us go to God. The spirit is where Holy Spirit lives in a believer and the soul of man is the seat of the mind, will and emotions---the personality! God has created these two parts of us to be immortal, to later receive a new immortal body at the resurrection!

Yeah, I wonder why these parts aren't enough? I mean if parts of us go to God, he can just lop off the parts I don't like and keep the rest. BTW, I hear in heaven only parts of God are there. I think it's the Father and Holy Spirit. Somewhere part of God in Jesus is floating about elsewhere. :biglol

Ezekiel 18:20

 

[betteroffdead]

What right does anyone have to ask what right God has to do anything?

Note the Book of Genesis:
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<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

18:20</st1:time> And the LORD said, Because the cry of <st1:City>Sodom</st1:City> and <st1:City>Gomorrah</st1:City> is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="21">18:21</st1:time> I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="22">18:22</st1:time> And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward <st1:City><ST1:pSodom</st1:City> but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="23">18:23</st1:time> And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="24">18:24</st1:time> Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="25">18:25</st1:time> That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="26"></st1:time>
<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="26">18:26</st1:time> And the LORD said, If I find in <st1:City>Sodom</st1:City> fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="27">18:27</st1:time> And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD, which am but dust and ashes:

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="28">18:28</st1:time> Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="29">18:29</st1:time> And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="30"></st1:time>
<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="30">18:30</st1:time> And he said unto him, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="31">18:31</st1:time> And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the LORD: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="32">18:32</st1:time> And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

<st1:time Hour="18" Minute="33">18:33</st1:time> And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.
</O:p
Note the Book of Matthew:
</O:p
27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.

27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Since the Lord is a just God, humans always have a right to question His actions and His purpose. Even the Lord’s very own only begotten Son questioned Him. It is the only means humans have of keeping God honest.

Middle of what game? The rule was set down at the BEGINNING.

You know very well what I am talking about. And there was no threat of eternal torment In the Beginning. God simply told Adam and Eve that they would die if they disobeyed Him. Get over it.<O:p</O:p

 

[betteroffdead]

Note what Jesus said in Mark:

9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Jesus was referring to Isaiah 66:24 and since God is the author of His Word, Jesus surely knew the context of this verse in Isaiah:

66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

So by the standards of the people that preach eternal torment in hellfire Jesus is saying that the righteous will also go to hell because the righteous will look upon the carcasses of the wicked.

So I hope you all enjoy your time in hell because that is where your Jesus says you are going.

 

[Alabaster]

Since the Lord is a just God, humans always have a right to question His actions and His purpose. Even the Lord’s very own only begotten Son questioned Him. It is the only means humans have of keeping God honest.

Questioning His right is more than a mere query. Jesus' anguished cry doesn't compare. It isn't up to man to keep God honest! How does something unholy keep a watch over THE HOLY ONE????

DO YOU TAKE HIS THRONE TO DO THAT?

Honestly, where you come up with your notions about God is not from Him!

You know very well what I am talking about. And there was no threat of eternal torment In the Beginning. God simply told Adam and Eve that they would die if they disobeyed Him. Get over it.

So what? How do you know Adam was not privy to the knowledge of hell? Learn to be satisfied with God's answers. There's nothing there for me to get over. I've never had a problem with the concept.<o></o>

 

[Pizzaguy]

It is the only means humans have of keeping God honest.

That is the oddest thing I've read here in weeks.

I'm not sure just what you are trying to say.

Get over it.<o></o>

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