What is the place of the words of Christ?

[Orthodox Christian]

I would like to ask a question, not because I don't have a very clear answer to the question in my own heart and head, but because it seems like many different views exist.

These days many, it seems, subjugate the word of Christ to the epistles of Paul on one hand, or the teaching of Torah on the other.

Here is my question for consideration:
Which words are to be trusted above all?
1.All books and verses of the scriptures equally
2.All books of the scripture, with the New Testament serving as the lens through which the Old Testament is viewed
3.All books of the scriptures, with the words of Christ as the pinnacle
4.Some other explanation.

I would appreciate some views from diverse groups, just to see what the prevailing opinion(s) is/are.

Thanks much
James

PS: I will be up front about my own view: I believe that all scripture is valuable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and so forth: but when it comes down to it, it's the words of Jesus the Christ for me (the red bits).

 

[AwedbyGod]

I would lean towards number 2. Although I am currently struggling with a lot of contradictions in the Bible so I may not be in the right frame of mind at the moment to be of any use.

I hope that we can trust that the red parts are the actual words of Christ, but in the end we must take that on faith. I am steadfast in my belief that Jesus is the Christ, but I am unsure if the picture of him painted by the writers of the Bible is 100 percent accurate.

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

Gosh well between the two of you why not just chuck out the whole bible? :

 

[AwedbyGod]

Gosh well between the two of you why not just chuck out the whole bible? :

Yeah. That's a reasonable response. :roll:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Gosh well between the two of you why not just chuck out the whole bible? :

This, after OC had said

I believe that all scripture is valuable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and so forth:

and AwedByGod said:

I would lean towards number 2. Although I am currently struggling with a lot of contradictions in the Bible so I may not be in the right frame of mind at the moment to be of any use.

Doesn't sound like someone with disregard or disdain for the bible. Not at all.

Will the person reading this to ScarletPimpernel please clarify this to him/her? :wink:

Thanks for your response, AwedByGod. Looking forward to responses from people who intend to clarify their position. Please refrain from attacking the position of others, if only for this thread.

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

Ah right. Now I get you. You mean, Your favourite parts are the red bits. My position is:

1.All books and verses of the scriptures equally .

 

[stovebolts]

Can I choose an amalgamation of 2 and 3?

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Good response, ScarletP. And yes, StoveBolts, amalgamations are fine, also.

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

I am suitable chastened. I apologise. I did not mean to cause offence, merely be light hearted. Sorry about that. Obviously, we don't know each other well enough yet. Pax Christus be with you.

 

[AwedbyGod]

I am suitable chastened. I apologise. I did not mean to cause offence, merely be light hearted. Sorry about that. Obviously, we don't know each other well enough yet. Pax Christus be with you.

Think nothing of it. The Internet is a difficult medium to communicate within.

 

[TheScarletPimpernel]

Thanks. Well.. don't mind me. Please, carry on, if you wish!

 

[cj]

PS: I will be up front about my own view: I believe that all scripture is valuable for doctrine, reproof, correction, and so forth: but when it comes down to it, it's the words of Jesus the Christ for me (the red bits).

What do you say when you read something like the above,..... that is, in the light of the following,

"All Scripture is God-breathed....."

Is it any wonder OC's so confused?


Maybe OC just believes that "the words" in red are a little more God-breathed than the words in black.


You know what might help?

Lets get together and get a bible printed with all words in red for OC, then maybe he'll give all scripture equal importance,.... as God intended.


To conclude, all scripture is given by God. It is His one speaking to man.


In love,
cj

 

[SputnikBoy]

The problem is ...much of the 'God-breathed scriptures' contain the opinions of men and revolve around the culture of the day. I think I'm with OC on this one in regard to the 'red bits' being given more importance.

 

[SputnikBoy]

As an addendum to the above ...surely the text contained in 2 Timothy 3:16 (the 'God-breathed' part) is referring to the Old Testament. How could this (or ANY reference to the scripture) have been referring to the New Testament? Did ANY of the key figures of the NT - other than Jesus - have any idea that their words would eventually be immortalized in a canon that we now know of as the New Testament?

 

[AwedbyGod]

To conclude, all scripture is given by God. It is His one speaking to man.


In love,
cj

Is English your second or third language?

 

[cj]

The problem is ...much of the 'God-breathed scriptures' contain the opinions of men and revolve around the culture of the day. I think I'm with OC on this one in regard to the 'red bits' being given more importance.

Well, in a human sense what you say is true, but the same can be said about the OT scriptures that Jesus quoted, were they not wirtten by men according to the culture they lived in.

Remember, God sees things differently from men.

The key to seeing the truth contained in the scriptures is to have God's view of them.

Which is the work of God,..... getting men to see things from His view.

Do you know what Moriah means in Hebrew?

In love,
cj

In love,
cj

 

[cj]

As an addendum to the above ...surely the text contained in 2 Timothy 3:16 (the 'God-breathed' part) is referring to the Old Testament. How could this (or ANY reference to the scripture) have been referring to the New Testament? Did ANY of the key figures of the NT - other than Jesus - have any idea that their words would eventually be immortalized in a canon that we now know of as the New Testament?

The OT scriptures were not known as Old Testament scriptures; they still are not by Jews.

Scriptures are just writings of men that have been inspired by God. And the apostle authors of the various epistles and books of what is today called the NT, I believe all knew to some extent that what they were writing was of God, and therefore equivalent to the OT scriptures.


In love,
cj

 

[Solo]

The entire Word of God are the words of Christ Jesus, and are equally important depending on the time, the day, the situation, the lesson, the study, the audience, etc.. When reading Isaiah years ago, I received the full impression that the Word God, Jesus, was speaking directly to me. Ever since I have come to appreciate the name declared in John, the Word. Isaiah is one of my favorite books, with Isaiah 58 one of my favorite chapters.

 

[AVBunyan]

All i sscripture

I believe what scripture says about itself.

Prov 30:5 Every word of God is pure:
Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words:
2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

I believe that from Genesis to Revelation are the pure words of God.

I believe that my King James Bible is scripture and therefore inspired according to II Tim. 3:16.
I believe the italicized words are inspired scripture.
I believe the punctuation marks in my AV1611 are inspired markings.
I believe Moses’ words, David’s words, Ezra’s words, Jonah’s words, Jesus’ words, Paul’s words, Peter’s words, James’ words, and all the rest in the scriptures are all equally the words of God given to them by God and written down by man and preserved to this day in a King James Bible by the preserving power of the Holy Spirit.

Now – some of you insinuate that I don’t believe the entire bible because I go to Paul first. I trust the above cleared this misconception up.

I place emphasis on Paul’s epistles today because God does.
Noah said to build a boat – why don’t you? Noah wasn’t speaking to me.
Moses said to sacrifice a lamb – why don’t you? Moses wasn’t speaking to me
Isaiah said you could lie down with a lion – why don’t you just try? Finally caught up with Sigfried and Roy! Isaiah wasn’t speaking to me
Jesus told someone to endure to the end of a period of time - Jesus wasn’t speaking to me – He was speaking to Jews who could have gone through the tribulation if it would have started.

I believe Paul got the latest instructions and I start with Paul.
Would some of you mind telling me your interpretation of:

2 Tim 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

My favorite verse in the Bible is:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

One of my faovrite witnessing verses is:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

One of the greatest verses on the power of scripture is:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

One of the greatest verses on the depravity of man is:
Psa 39:5 Behold, thou hast made my days as an handbreadth; and mine age is as nothing before thee: verily every man at his best state is altogether vanity. Selah.

None of the above is from Paul (except for Hebrews).

By the way - in my daily reading I am in John. During my family time we are in James. My preacher just got out of Esther and I Peter.

Now some of you were saying....???? :o

In answer to the words of Christ - they are the words of God - but Christ gave Paul advanced revelation that Christ chose not to reveal while he was on earth.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Thank you all for your posts. Thank you especially to AVB for taking the time to explain his position, and doing so with suitable care.

I agree with your statement, Solo, I feel God speaking to me through many things in what is known generally among the Christians as the Old Covenant or Old Testament. The covenant may have waned, replaced by a new one in His Blood, but the words have not waned.

I appreciate SputnikBoy's explanation of why the Gospel is of greatest prominence to him. I think we all would acknowledge that the gospels contain some statements that abrogate earlier statements in the Torah- such as the allowance of a bill of divorcement. Not no mo'

Thank you ScarletPimpernel for participating in a light-hearted manner, no offense taken.
Even CJ, having gotten past the need for attacking me at every turn, actually had something to offer that I appreciated:
I believe also that the Apostles knew they were writing authoratively- traditionally, several of the epistles are known as 'universal' epistles because they were intended to speak to a universal, timeless audience.

In the Hebrew tradition to which they were part of, setting Torah and prophecy to scroll was inevitable- after all, they had experienced all that Moses did, and then some.

Thanks also to AwedByGod and StoveBolts for their candor and friendship.

I need to digest these replies, I have a few other questions in mind.
Blessings
James