What is the Thief on the Cross meaning ???

[dan p]

Hi to all , and the thief has some interesting things to reveal !!!!

#1 , I believe that he was first a Jew , because he believed in one God , for he did not ask the other malefactor , Dost not thou fears the gods ? .

#2 , Second , he believed in the Bodily Resurrection of the dead , for he spoke to the Lord " me " and " thou " and their life after death ( Luke 23:42 ) Resurrection was not something considered credible among Gentiles ( Acts 26:8 ) and was seemingly not comman believed among them ( Acts 17:32 )

#3 , Third , his words " remember me when Thou comest into Thy Kingdom " ( Luke 23:42 ) proves he believed in the Second Coming . Since the Lord had not spoken on the Cross of this event , at least as far as the record of Scripture goes , this would indicate he was previously familiar with the Lords teachings , something that would be true of a Jew .

#4 , Fourth , he knew the Lord would someday have a " Kingdom " ( Luke 23:42 ) . The Lord had likewise not talked about His Kingdom while on the Cross , again suggeting the malefactor was already familar with His teachings , A Gentile would not likely be familiar with Israel's hope on the Kingdom of Heaven on earth .

 

[Sinthesis]

What does it MATTER to you if he was a Jew or not?
What about the other thief? Was he a Jew also?

 

[dan p]

What does it MATTER to you if he was a Jew or not?
What about the other thief? Was he a Jew also?

Hi Sinthesis, in Luke 23:39 railed on Him . It is theGreek word BLASPHEMEO which means to blaspheme , rail , revile , and to speak evil, so take your pick . Maybe you have some thoughts about why HE SO MAD .

 

[Sinthesis]

What does it MATTER to you if he was a Jew or not?
What about the other thief? Was he a Jew also?

Hi Sinthesis, in Luke 23:39 railed on Him . It is theGreek word BLASPHEMEO which means to blaspheme , rail , revile , and to speak evil, so take your pick . Maybe you have some thoughts about why HE SO MAD .

That's the other thief who railed.
What does it matter to you that they were Jews or not?

 

[dan p]

What does it MATTER to you if he was a Jew or not?
What about the other thief? Was he a Jew also?

Hi Sinthesis, in Luke 23:39 railed on Him . It is theGreek word BLASPHEMEO which means to blaspheme , rail , revile , and to speak evil, so take your pick . Maybe you have some thoughts about why HE SO MAD .

That's the other thief who railed.
What does it matter to you that they were Jews or not?

Maybe , because some on asked ?????? I see that it does not matter , to you , so why not drop it ????

 

[Bick]

Hi to all , and the thief has some interesting things to reveal !!!!

#1 , I believe that he was first a Jew , because he believed in one God , for he did not ask the other malefactor , Dost not thou fears the gods ? .

#2 , Second , he believed in the Bodily Resurrection of the dead , for he spoke to the Lord " me " and " thou " and their life after death ( Luke 23:42 ) Resurrection was not something considered credible among Gentiles ( Acts 26:8 ) and was seemingly not comman believed among them ( Acts 17:32 )

#3 , Third , his words " remember me when Thou comest into Thy Kingdom " ( Luke 23:42 ) proves he believed in the Second Coming . Since the Lord had not spoken on the Cross of this event , at least as far as the record of Scripture goes , this would indicate he was previously familiar with the Lords teachings , something that would be true of a Jew .

#4 , Fourth , he knew the Lord would someday have a " Kingdom " ( Luke 23:42 ) . The Lord had likewise not talked about His Kingdom while on the Cross , again suggeting the malefactor was already familar with His teachings , A Gentile would not likely be familiar with Israel's hope on the Kingdom of Heaven on earth .

MY COMMENTS: #1...I agree. I think he must have been a Jew who knew of the coming Messianic Kingdom.

#2...Good point. He indeed believed in a bodily resurrection, or, the resurrection of the whole person, is another way of saying it, and thus, life after death (not life during death).

#3...As in #1, he believed in a Messianic Kingdom, and must have believed that Jesus was, indeed, the Messiah who would come into his Kingdom on the earth. Maybe the thief had heard Jesus preaching before he was convicted to be crucified, and was converted there on Golgotha, for he says in Luke 23:41, "..this man has done nothing wrong."

#4...Again, as in #3, he believed that Jesus as Messiah would come into his Kingdom, and asked to be remembered.

And as an added thought to this discussion: Jesus answered him saying, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in the paradise" CV.
And a study of "paradise" will show that it means "a garden ground or park". And that is what the restored land and Jerusalem in the Messianic Kingdom will be like.
Here are some prophetic passages describing the coming paradise in the land:
Isa. 35:1,2, "The wilderness and the dry land shall be glad, the desert shall rejoice and blossom;
like the crocus it shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice with joy and singing." NRSV
Isa 41:19, "I will put in the wilderness the cedar, the acacia, the myrtle, and the olive; I will set in the desert the cypress, the plane and the pine together, so that all my see and know...that the hand of the Lord has done this.."
Ezek. 35:34,35, "The land that was desolate shall be tilled, instead of being the desolation that it was in the sight of all who passed by. And they will say, 'This land that was desolate has become like the garden (paradise in the Septuagent) of Eden..."

 

[glorydaz]

MY COMMENTS: #1...I agree. I think he must have been a Jew who knew of the coming Messianic Kingdom.

#2...Good point. He indeed believed in a bodily resurrection, or, the resurrection of the whole person, is another way of saying it, and thus, life after death (not life during death).

#3...As in #1, he believed in a Messianic Kingdom, and must have believed that Jesus was, indeed, the Messiah who would come into his Kingdom on the earth. Maybe the thief had heard Jesus preaching before he was convicted to be crucified, and was converted there on Golgotha, for he says in Luke 23:41, "..this man has done nothing wrong."

#4...Again, as in #3, he believed that Jesus as Messiah would come into his Kingdom, and asked to be remembered.

I agree with the above, but Jesus isn't saying, "I'm saying to you today"....he's saying, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise." Paradise is also known as shoel...where the OT saints were waiting until the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Sinthesis]

I agree with the above, but Jesus isn't saying, "I'm saying to you today"....he's saying, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise." Paradise is also known as shoel...where the OT saints were waiting until the resurrection of Christ.

Exactly

 

[Sinthesis]

What does it matter to you that they were Jews or not?

Maybe , because some on asked ?????? I see that it does not matter , to you , so why not drop it ????

You started the thread, and nobody has asked but me.
Again, what does it matter to you that they were Jews or not? Do you have an answer? It seems to matter to you. Why?

 

[dan p]

What does it matter to you that they were Jews or not?

Maybe , because some on asked ?????? I see that it does not matter , to you , so why not drop it ????

You started the thread, and nobody has asked but me.
Again, what does it matter to you that they were Jews or not? Do you have an answer? It seems to matter to you. Why?

Most believers , really say that the Gospels are for all , and I say that Context is Israel . Some have said that a Roman citizen would never be crucified , but that is heresy on my part . So if you do not like my answer and you keep asking ne , maybe I will have a better answer , next time !!!!

 

[Bick]

MY COMMENTS: #1...I agree. I think he must have been a Jew who knew of the coming Messianic Kingdom.

#2...Good point. He indeed believed in a bodily resurrection, or, the resurrection of the whole person, is another way of saying it, and thus, life after death (not life during death).

#3...As in #1, he believed in a Messianic Kingdom, and must have believed that Jesus was, indeed, the Messiah who would come into his Kingdom on the earth. Maybe the thief had heard Jesus preaching before he was convicted to be crucified, and was converted there on Golgotha, for he says in Luke 23:41, "..this man has done nothing wrong."

#4...Again, as in #3, he believed that Jesus as Messiah would come into his Kingdom, and asked to be remembered.

I agree with the above, but Jesus isn't saying, "I'm saying to you today"....he's saying, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise." Paradise is also known as shoel...where the OT saints were waiting until the resurrection of Christ.

MY COMMENTS: I know that is the traditional interpretation, but, if Jesus was alive That Day, then he didn't die. And yet, He said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.
It's true, Jesus committed his spirit to God. Have you studied "spirit of man" in the Scriptures?

And, from where in the Scriptures did you arrive at the conclusion that "paradise" was also "sheol"?
Have you ever looked up all the passages where "sheol" is used?

Did you know that "paradise" (paradeisos--Greek) is of Persian origin meaning "park like grounds".

 

[glorydaz]

I agree with the above, but Jesus isn't saying, "I'm saying to you today"....he's saying, "Today you shall be with me in Paradise." Paradise is also known as shoel...where the OT saints were waiting until the resurrection of Christ.

MY COMMENTS: I know that is the traditional interpretation, but, if Jesus was alive That Day, then he didn't die. And yet, He said He would be in the tomb three days and three nights.
It's true, Jesus committed his spirit to God. Have you studied "spirit of man" in the Scriptures?

And, from where in the Scriptures did you arrive at the conclusion that "paradise" was also "sheol"?
Have you ever looked up all the passages where "sheol" is used?

Did you know that "paradise" (paradeisos--Greek) is of Persian origin meaning "park like grounds".

Yes, I have looked at all the passages where sheol is used, and I realize there are many words that refer to the place of the dead. It's a study worth delving into.

The question is...what did Jesus do while He was in the grave.

Isaiah's prophecy tells us.

1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

First He went to the lower parts of the earth where He gathered the OT saints who were in Paradise (Abraham's bossom). They had to wait until Jesus accomplished His work on the cross before they could go to heaven.

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

The word here should be Hades which is the same as Sheol. Hades/Sheol includes two places of waiting...one for the righteous (Abraham's bosom or Paradise), and one for the ungodly.

27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Here again the KJ translates hades to hell, but the KJ doesn't ever get it right about hell. They translate all words the same. I always use KJ unless the various places of the dead are discussed.

There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

 

[Bick]

Hi glorydaz. Again I ask, was Jesus dead and in the tomb three days and nights? And if so, how could part of him be alive somewhere else?

 

[glorydaz]

Hi glorydaz. Again I ask, was Jesus dead and in the tomb three days and nights? And if so, how could part of him be alive somewhere else?

His body was dead...our bodies are just the outer shell of man.
We have a soul and spirit that lives on when our body ceases to function.

 

[ProphetMark]

Jesus's spirit, as far as I know, is the Holy Spirit. Was it his soul that 1 Peter 3 refers to?

 

[Mysteryman]

When Jesus was dead for three days and three nights, he was dead !

Jesus didn't do anything while he was dead for three days and three nights !

Why do people trust their tanslations ? Or even the texts from which they come ?

Many things have been changed or added too. None of which were God's intentions. Which means, that those words were not God breathed.

Everything in the undefiled Word of God is always established twice. This comment that he went and visited the spirits in prison were additions by men. Thus, they are erroneous !

IN Christ - MM

 

[glorydaz]

When Jesus was dead for three days and three nights, he was dead !

Jesus didn't do anything while he was dead for three days and three nights !

Why do people trust their tanslations ? Or even the texts from which they come ?

Many things have been changed or added too. None of which were God's intentions. Which means, that those words were not God breathed.

Everything in the undefiled Word of God is always established twice. This comment that he went and visited the spirits in prison were additions by men. Thus, they are erroneous !

IN Christ - MM

Ah, that would be your opinion. I take the Bible as truth. God is certainly more than able to keep His truth in spite of man's efforts. To say that Jesus was "dead" for three days and three nights is error. His body was dead....that's it. It isn't just one verse you have to ignore in order to say that, it's the whole of scripture.

 

[Mysteryman]

When Jesus was dead for three days and three nights, he was dead !

Jesus didn't do anything while he was dead for three days and three nights !

Why do people trust their tanslations ? Or even the texts from which they come ?

Many things have been changed or added too. None of which were God's intentions. Which means, that those words were not God breathed.

Everything in the undefiled Word of God is always established twice. This comment that he went and visited the spirits in prison were additions by men. Thus, they are erroneous !

IN Christ - MM

Ah, that would be your opinion. I take the Bible as truth. God is certainly more than able to keep His truth in spite of man's efforts. To say that Jesus was "dead" for three days and three nights is error. His body was dead....that's it. It isn't just one verse you have to ignore in order to say that, it's the whole of scripture.

Hmmm, Jesus was not dead for three days and three nights, eh ? Did not Jesus say that he comended his Spirit to his Father ? Luke 23:46 . The word "commend" means to -"give over" or "give it up" or "give unto" < This is the greatest usage.

Acts 14:23 and Acts 20:32 is this "same" greek word, and in its usage.

IN Christ - MM

 

[glorydaz]

When Jesus was dead for three days and three nights, he was dead !

Jesus didn't do anything while he was dead for three days and three nights !

Why do people trust their tanslations ? Or even the texts from which they come ?

Many things have been changed or added too. None of which were God's intentions. Which means, that those words were not God breathed.

Everything in the undefiled Word of God is always established twice. This comment that he went and visited the spirits in prison were additions by men. Thus, they are erroneous !

IN Christ - MM

Ah, that would be your opinion. I take the Bible as truth. God is certainly more than able to keep His truth in spite of man's efforts. To say that Jesus was "dead" for three days and three nights is error. His body was dead....that's it. It isn't just one verse you have to ignore in order to say that, it's the whole of scripture.

Hmmm, Jesus was not dead for three days and three nights, eh ? Did not Jesus say that he comended his Spirit to his Father ? Luke 23:46 . The word "commend" means to -"give over" or "give it up" or "give unto" < This is the greatest usage.

Acts 14:23 and Acts 20:32 is this "same" greek word, and in its usage.

IN Christ - MM

Jesus was no longer bound by his humanity. His body was in the grave.

So you're saying, now, He wasn't dead for three days?

He gives up His Spirit....so only His body was "dead", right?

Do you not believe he also descended first? What, not able?
The Word tells us...

When Jesus ascended to heaven, He took the occupants of paradise (believers) with Him.

Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.