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What kind of place is hell?

evechot said:
:crazyeyes:

This raises the question: Did Almighty God create such a place of torment?
Think about this. If the ideas of roasting people in fire ? Would a loving God really torment people forever?
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So then that might answer it. Perhaps God did not create hell.
But faith in God will keep you out of hell, and put you into the kingdom.
 
heavens1gate said:
evechot said:
:crazyeyes:
This raises the question: Did Almighty God create such a place of torment?
Think about this. If the ideas of roasting people in fire ? Would a loving God really torment people forever?
Click to expand...
So then that might answer it. Perhaps God did not create hell.
But faith in God will keep you out of hell, and put you into the kingdom.
Click to expand...

If God didn't create hell, then who did? Are we to believe that when God created the earth, there was already this 4th dimension place of eternal burning that just happened to exist? Even still our salvation or lack of is in the hands of God and in the choice of free beings. It was God's choice to make our lives to be punishable or salvagable according to our choices. If you believe in eternal torment, you must believe that God is directly responsible for it's existence, regardless if by our choice we go there.

This is the problem with eternal torment in an eternal fire. No matter how much people want to justify their arguments that 'God doesn't send people to hell, people send themselves to hell', God still must take responsibility.

Why?

Why did He create such a place to begin with? What is the reason for it??

Does a God who is so much above us demand an eternity of suffering for sins when He could choose to wipe us out for all eternity? Is He that vindictive and blood thirsty that 'death' is not effective, but eternal suffering is? What point is He trying to prove? There is no other purpose for 'eternal tormenting hellfire' than to torment sinners. There is no reformation, no redemption, no mercy...just endless suffering and pain.

If God created hell, and there is no reformation or purpose or redemption in hell, then we MUST come to the conclusion that God wants to punish sinners in hell and God created man with the freedom of choice KNOWING that man would reject Him and thus condemn himself to a hell that God specifically and knowingly created for him

Then when we add Calvinism into the picture, we see an even more horrid picture of God.

Does this sound like a being of the highest moral order? Does this sound like a being of love, mercy and justice?

Not to any rational person.

However, when we understand 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 20, we see that fire comes down from heaven and burns up the world and all that is in it. Why? Because sin and the effects of sin must be wiped clean. Fire is the most destructive and purifying force in the bible. The wicked are punished, yes, however, it is in the process of destroying the earth. The wicked are merely 'caught in the crossfire' so to speak.

When we see that God wants to eradicate sin and has told us that He will destroy with fire, then we see that God has no responsibility in the death of the wicked. He didn't create a specific place of fire to torment for eternity, it is the natural process of cleansing the earth so He 'can make a new heaven and a new earth for the former heaven's and earth is PASSED AWAY' Revelation 21:1-3.

Eternal torment puts God and His character in a horrible light no matter how badly people twist logic to justify it...the best one I've heard is 'Sinners don't want to go to heaven, they choose in their rebellion to remain in hell' and 'the locks of hell are on the inside'.

As much as I respect C.S. Lewis I have to say that the above comments are RUBBISH. It is a sad, pathetic attempt to justify eternal torment while easing the doubts and nasty conscience pangs we have to such a doctrine.

The truth of the scriptures is so much better!
 
Really if God's glory was not on the earth we would be miserable and cause more pain for ourselves. Also we would have no protection from demonic forces....so they would rule; I mean it can't really get worse then that. Hell or no Hell it still sucks.
 
monkey.gif


Most of us have a bible and so far I've heard enough opinions to fill a banana boat.
My bible is a King James Version the kind you will find in most of your hotel/motel
rooms. Tonight open it and find only the scriptures where "Jesus" describes it, you
can't go wrong. Or keep filling that banana boat my friend here would like that. :sad
 
This is my understanding of hell.


The one thing most don't seem to realize is that hell fire is the punishment of the wicked and it happens after the judgement.......The unsaved to not go to any place of punishment as soon as they die, but are reserved in the grave till the day of judgment to be punishedJohn 5:28,29; Dan. 12:2 . Matthew 13:29,30,37-43

Hell fire is not a fire in some subterranial underground cave where people are torchered for eternity. Hell fire is not eternal, only the effects of it are. The fire is to have the purpose of removing sin and sinners and the effects of sin for all eternity.

If the wicked were to suffer hell fire right after death there wouldn't be much justice in it. If that were so then people like Hitler will be serving less time in hell than those who have done much less , and less damaging things than he did.
 
avatar6939_0.gif

What are you using for bait? I read a few posts and have come to a conclusion, all
the members have ideas they have probably been carrying around for years. Now its
my turn, taking scripture and leaving them alone seems to be too much to ask so lets
try this. I haven't changed anything from Luke 16:

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I think that about covers it, God said it I believe it that settles it..

Thanks,
turnorburn

samuel said:
Anybody want to bite on this hook. :)
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That would have been my choice to cover the subject, for the most part. Except for answering the eternal, or temporal length of punishment.
 
If the wicked were to suffer hell fire right after death there wouldn't be much justice in it. If that were so then people like Hitler will be serving less time in hell than those who have done much less , and less damaging things than he did.
Click to expand...
Hell is the punishment given to the unrighteous after judgment, so you do have a point.

Hell fire is not a fire in some subterranial underground cave where people are torchered for eternity. Hell fire is not eternal, only the effects of it are. The fire is to have the purpose of removing sin and sinners and the effects of sin for all eternity.
Click to expand...
There is no Biblical evidence for this other than speculation and putting pieces together that don't quite fit. It is either eternal or results in the annihilation of the soul, but it doesn't equate to universal reconciliation, which btw, is not allowed to be taught here.



Turnorburn, have you ever studied the origins of Jesus' rich man parable? It comes from a story in the Babylonian Talmud that Jesus and His listeners would have known. He adapted it to make His point. Check this out.

http://www.bibleexplained.com/Gospels/Luke/Lu16b.html

Scroll down to the orange box (not the first pink box) and read from there.

It doesn't really cover the meaning of the parable, but does a good job of explaining it's origin. The writer even says this:
6. What the story of the rich man and Lazarus means to us

This is a question you might want to answer. At least you can add your thoughts to my own list:
Click to expand...
 
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