what Law did Jesus replace?

[Avondale]

must be one of the most thrashed about topics in all creation.

I came into Christainity with a direct encounter with God. I was bought up in an Anglican household (for many years unsaved) and so I continued, once Christian in that demonination. (this is how it was - nothing to do with Anglicanism)
One Sunday my Rector rang and said the chimney was blocked and the house was getting smoked out.
My mind (not The Spirit) said - Its the Sabbath - 6 days you'll labour.....
We got that drilled into use every Sunday - 10 commandments bit

A few years later after a stuggle with 'Church Stuff' I left the Anglican Church - and 'sat it out with God'.
I later joined another church.
The following years have taught me that nothing in our Christian walk can be better than a one on one relationship with Jesus and nothing from any Law or law (however anyone would want to interpret what 'law' means) can make me a better person or contribute to my standing before God.
The only thing that matters is that I love God and He loves me.

What part of any law can make me Holy? Sanctified? Saved? Delivered? Forgiven? Justified? Right before God? Filled with all Joy? At Peace with Him? I could go on.

If we need 'a law' or The Law' then what part do we 'need'? What part(s) can make us better people?

Where does the Holy Spirit find its place in a life of obedience to The Law?

If we say we abide by or in The Law then what happens when we fail? Do we fall back to some other law and seek restoration from that?
If we go to Jesus and ask his help then who is greater? The Law or Jesus?

Is Jesus sufficient for all our needs that life may throw at us?
If he isn't then what is?
If He is, then why bother arguing for another option?

If we know Jesus then I would say our life is complete and nothing else matters.
Do we do what others say is abiding in the law because we observe the law, or because we love Jesus, and have a friendship with Him that is like no other friendship - a mate for life seconded only by a loving realtionship with ones spouse.

Jesus came to give us life - I'd encourage anyone to take that literraly, grab it 'by both feet' and allow him to build into your lives a LIFE of Power, Peace,Love and Joy. He can do it and He wants to do it.
And the Good News is He will do it without any law, just a mind set on Him.

 

[RichardBurger]

Ministers teach that the church operates under grace and is no longer subject to the Mosaic Laws because they were done away with when Jesus nailed them to the cross. The following verses are often cited by ministers to support this concept.

Romans (6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Colossians (2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The above verses due state that we are no longer under the law and that Jesus nailed them to His cross.

But the question one needs to ask is what are the laws that we are no longer under because Jesus nailed them to His cross?

An individual will find that they have erred if they accept the position that the Mosaic Law was done away with based on these verses.

In studying the scriptures one will find that Paul was not referring to the Mosaic Laws as being the ones we are no longer under but instead was speaking of a different set of laws the Sacrificial Laws.

You said; "studying the scriptures one will find that Paul was not referring to the Mosaic Laws as being the ones we are no longer under but instead was speaking of a different set of laws the Sacrificial Laws."

Please give the scriptures you base this on. If we are under any kind of law then salvation is in keeping those laws. But we are not under law, any law, if we are then we are condemned because we can't keep laws.

The only thing that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in the work of Jesus (God( on the cross. Read John 3:16-18. Surely you believe God when He had this written.

 

[Benoni]

.
Now you’re making John 3:16 a law? That is comical.

Let us look a little closer at this awesome verse especially the Strong’s Concordances reference <9999 >, it is worse then 666.

(KJV) John 3 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15 That whosoever believeth in him should (not perish,) should be omitted), but have eternal life.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that (whosoever, should be "all") (believeth, should be that "all believing") in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The following are a direct quote from Strong’s Concordance.

John 3:15
<9999 > should
<9999 > not
<9999 > perish,
<9999 > but

NT:9999

9999 inserted word (x);

This word was added by the translators for better readability in the English. There is no actual word in the Hebrew/Greek text. The word may be displayed in italics, or in parentheses or other brackets, to indicate that it is not in the original text.


Now we will look at a passage in the New Testament; viz., that precious declaration in John 3:16,

"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son," etc. We will take into consideration verses 14-17 inclusive; first I will clear up several points of obscurity and error and then give the rendering as it should be.

In verse 15 the words "not perish but" should be omitted; according to the best authorities they have been interpolated, probably from the following verse; they are left out from the New Version.

Strong's Whosoever 3956 pas (pas);including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole: KJV-- all (manner of, means), alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.

The word "whosoever" in the l5th and l6th verses should be rendered "all"; in the original it is the word usually rendered all throughout the New Testament; it occurs hundreds of times, and it is rendered
"all" in over nine hundred instances, and whosoever in only about forty; the rendering all then is plainly the usual one.

The word rendered "believeth," in the original is a participle, "believing"; the clause should read, "that all, believing in him should not," etc. The words, "believing in him," are explanatory, telling us how "all" are to be saved, viz, by believing in him. In the common version it will be noticed that the participle is, without authority, rendered by the verb "believeth," and the words, "whosoever believeth in him" are thereby made to have a conditional force, as though it read, if they believe in him, implying that some will not believe in him, and hence will perish, and be lost eternally.

But this is not a correct rendering of the original, as I have shown above; the clause is not conditional, but is thrown in, as a participial form, as explanatory of the manner of the world's salvation, by believing in him; this view is fully confirmed by the l9th verse; "for God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved."

Might be saved: Stong's 4982 sozo (sode'-zo); from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, "safe"); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): KJV-- heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be
(make) whole. The word “might†was added by the translator

Now I will give the whole passage as it ought to be.

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the son of man be lifted up, that all,
believing in him. might have æonial life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son,
that all, believing in him, might not perish, but have æonial life. For God sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world but that the world through him be saved."

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world, contained in the Bible. It is positive and direct, and mighty enough, could they only appreciate it, to utterly silence all those narrow, shortsighted souls who think that God will only gain a partial victory over the devil, that he will not save the world, but only a portion of it, a vast number being eternally lost. It is very plain why the translators of the common version handled this passage as they did. Their creed would not allow them to accept it just as it reads; it required only a slight change to make it conform to their own idea. They insert the unusual rendering "whosoever," change believing to "believeth," and then, punctuating it accordingly, the passage is "tinkered" so as to harmonize with the creed. Thank God for deliverance from man made creeds!

"Let God be true, though every man be false" (Rom. 3:4).

Young’s Literal John 3:14 `And as Moses did lift up the serpent in the wilderness, so it behoveth the Son of Man to be lifted up, 15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during, 16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during. 17 For God did not send His Son to the world that he may judge the world, but that the world may be saved through him;

The only thing that condemns in this age of God's grace is the sin of unbelief; unbelief in the work of Jesus (God( on the cross. Read John 3:16-18. Surely you believe God when He had this written.

 

[Ret]

If we know Jesus then I would say our life is complete and nothing else matters.
Do we do what others say is abiding in the law because we observe the law, or because we love Jesus, and have a friendship with Him that is like no other friendship - a mate for life seconded only by a loving realtionship with ones spouse.

Jesus came to give us life - I'd encourage anyone to take that literraly, grab it 'by both feet' and allow him to build into your lives a LIFE of Power, Peace,Love and Joy. He can do it and He wants to do it.
And the Good News is He will do it without any law, just a mind set on Him.

Avondale....Welcome to CF.net ....

Thanks for sharing your testimony. Truly the LOVE of the Father as given to the SON
is the basis for eternal life and the peace, love and joy of salvation in the Christ of God!

In Christ...Ret

 

[Rick W]

Universalism will not be promoted here no matter how one decides to twist scripture and doing it through a copy/paste from other sites bent on deception.

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world,

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/SpiritOf ... ctions.htm

Thus truthfully translated this passage is one of the grandest and most sweeping declarations of the final universal triumph of God's grace in the salvation of the world,

 

[ozell]

Ret"]

A law was in place.
A law was ADDED for tansgression.
until the seed came.

19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

what laws was in place?
The LAW of FAITH
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded.
By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.KJV

what is the law of faith?

[quote:1h5pi09b]what law was added? ALL the LAWs given to MOSES were ADDED

so thou shall not steal and kill and commit adultery is no longer valid? are you sure?

what seed came? The SEED - Jesus Christ of GOD...

one right!

All the LAWS given to MOSES are taken away when the SEED came.

thou shall not have any God before me and thou shall not worship the Lord in vain is taken away?

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.


there is a law that can give life Yes...the Law of FAITH. Read Heb 11...By Faith Able... By faith Eoch... By Faith Noah... By faith Abraham, Isaac, Jacob...etc.etc.

[/quote:1h5pi09b]

what are the laws of faith?

 

[ozell]

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.The 10 commandments could not give life, only condemnation because of the weakness of the flesh

Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19:Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The commandments, of themselves do not bring conviction of sin...because it/they lack FAITH!
Color RED remarks by Ret[/color

what must we do to get eternal life was asked, the answer given by Jesus is keep the commandments.

why would you say differently when the Lord said keeping the commandments give eternal life

 

[ozell]

Jesus came to give us life - I'd encourage anyone to take that literraly, grab it 'by both feet' and allow him to build into your lives a LIFE of Power, Peace,Love and Joy. He can do it and He wants to do it. And the Good News is He will do it without any law, just a mind set on Him.

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

this is how we live!

these words of Jesus is

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

[ozell]

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT repalce the commandents!!!

lets read in the last book of the bible in the last chapter

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[ozell]

what law was added because of transgressions?

it is not faith

the bible definition of faith is



Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

what law was added because of sin?

 

[glorydaz]

must be one of the most thrashed about topics in all creation.

I came into Christainity with a direct encounter with God. I was bought up in an Anglican household (for many years unsaved) and so I continued, once Christian in that demonination. (this is how it was - nothing to do with Anglicanism)
One Sunday my Rector rang and said the chimney was blocked and the house was getting smoked out.
My mind (not The Spirit) said - Its the Sabbath - 6 days you'll labour.....
We got that drilled into use every Sunday - 10 commandments bit

A few years later after a stuggle with 'Church Stuff' I left the Anglican Church - and 'sat it out with God'.
I later joined another church.
The following years have taught me that nothing in our Christian walk can be better than a one on one relationship with Jesus and nothing from any Law or law (however anyone would want to interpret what 'law' means) can make me a better person or contribute to my standing before God.
The only thing that matters is that I love God and He loves me.

What part of any law can make me Holy? Sanctified? Saved? Delivered? Forgiven? Justified? Right before God? Filled with all Joy? At Peace with Him? I could go on.

If we need 'a law' or The Law' then what part do we 'need'? What part(s) can make us better people?

Where does the Holy Spirit find its place in a life of obedience to The Law?

If we say we abide by or in The Law then what happens when we fail? Do we fall back to some other law and seek restoration from that?
If we go to Jesus and ask his help then who is greater? The Law or Jesus?

Is Jesus sufficient for all our needs that life may throw at us?
If he isn't then what is?
If He is, then why bother arguing for another option?

If we know Jesus then I would say our life is complete and nothing else matters.
Do we do what others say is abiding in the law because we observe the law, or because we love Jesus, and have a friendship with Him that is like no other friendship - a mate for life seconded only by a loving realtionship with ones spouse.

Jesus came to give us life - I'd encourage anyone to take that literraly, grab it 'by both feet' and allow him to build into your lives a LIFE of Power, Peace,Love and Joy. He can do it and He wants to do it.
And the Good News is He will do it without any law, just a mind set on Him.

There you have the law written on our hearts.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT repalce the commandents!!!

lets read in the last book of the bible in the last chapter

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Here are the commandments given for salvation....repent and believe.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

[Ret]

what law was added because of transgressions?

what law was added because of sin?

• Deuteronomy 5:15
  15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the
  LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
  therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. KJV

ADDITIONS were what was/is given to the Children of Israel, 430 years after Abraham...

• 
  Galatians 3:17-18
  17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
  the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul,
  that it should make the promise of none effect.
  
  18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:
  but God gave it to Abraham by promise. KJV
  

 

[ozell]

what law was added because of transgressions?

what law was added because of sin?

• Deuteronomy 5:15
  15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the
  LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
  therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. KJV

ADDITIONS were what was/is given to the Children of Israel, 430 years after Abraham...

• 
  Galatians 3:17-18
  17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
  the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul,
  that it should make the promise of none effect.
  
  18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:
  but God gave it to Abraham by promise. KJV
  

animal sacrifce was given 430 years later!!!

 

[ozell]

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT repalce the commandents!!!

lets read in the last book of the bible in the last chapter

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Here are the commandments given for salvation....repent and believe.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

believe what?

what am I repenting from?

believe what in the gospel?

 

[ozell]

A law was in place.

the commandments

A law was ADDED for tansgression.

the law of animal sacrifice

until the seed came.

Jesus blood replaced the blood of bulls and goats!

 

[ozell]

we read in Hebrews 10

1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11: And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

12: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

[anasazi avatar]

Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thyG4675 soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The 10 Commandments were never done away with. Matt 22:37 encompasses the first 4 of the 10 Commandments, Matt 22:39 encompasses the last 6.

What was done away with were the Levitical laws of Sacrifice and eating of food. The laws of eating and cleanliness are absolutely the best to follow where our lives enable us, but they are not fundamental laws.
I think of it this way as well: Only the Levitical Priests were allowed to minister the Sacrificial Offerings, collect tithes etc. So unless we take up the Jewish faith so as to have Levites to administer for us, we are unable to comply with them ourselves, being Gentiles.

 

[Ret]

what law was added because of transgressions?

what law was added because of sin?

ADDITIONS were what was/is given to the Children of Israel, 430 years after Abraham...

• Galatians 3:17-18
  17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,
  the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul,
  that it should make the promise of none effect.
  
  18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:
  but God gave it to Abraham by promise. KJV
  

animal sacrifce was given 430 years later!!!

OK...I'll quote more from the words of MOSES...

• Deuteronomy 5:
  5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel,
  the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day,
  that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
  
  2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
  
  3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers,
  (this covenant given to Moses was 430 years after Abraham)
  but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day....
  
  7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
  
  8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing
  that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters
  beneath the earth:
  
  9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the
  LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
  children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
  
  10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
  
  11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain:
  for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
  
  12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
  13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
  14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou
  shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant,
  nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy
  stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may
  rest as well as thou.
  
  15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the
  LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm:
  therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
  
  16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee;
  that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which
  the LORD thy God giveth thee.
  
  17 Thou shalt not kill.
  18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
  19 Neither shalt thou steal.
  20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy
  neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass,
  or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
  
  22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst
  of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more.
  And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me [Moses].
  KJV

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus death and resurrection DID NOT repalce the commandents!!!

lets read in the last book of the bible in the last chapter

Rv 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Here are the commandments given for salvation....repent and believe.

And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

believe what?

what am I repenting from?

believe what in the gospel?

You really don't know?
God has commanded all men to repent...

Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

All men sin and come short of the glory of God...so we're called on to repent of our sins.

When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The Gospel is the good news...those who hear the Word and believe will be saved. It's a simple truth, but not every man humbles himself and accepts it.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.