what Law did Jesus replace?

[ozell]

why did Jesus have to shed his blood?

why did Jesus have to come in the flesh for his creation?

before Jesus came in the flesh what blood were the people using for the remission of sin?

 

[Ret]

answer the question again

who of you are without sin?

what is a truly repentant person, why is he trutly repentant in the first place?

what is a converted person converting from?

if sin is reigning in your body it must have been their for a while, is this correct?
it sounds like Paul is warning us about sin even after Jesus had died and rose.
is this correct?

Again...sin REMAINS but does NOT REIGN in the truly converted person.
Who is the 'truly converted person'....by their fruits (fruits of the spirit) you shall know them.

What happened to Jesus 2000 years ago, is only history and spiritually makes no difference in one's sinful condition today, UNTIL Christ is REVEALED and through repentance, one turns from serving the flesh to serving the Spirit of Christ in their every day life of today...this condition does NOT mean one, anyone is WITHOUT sin, it does mean 'SIN DOES NOT REIGN' within the converted person!

I believe... inside the converted person SIN remains (dead) but GRACE reigns (life/ resurrection) on a daily basis! Though sin does NOT REIGN, it still remains in the body of flesh...

As Romans says....

• Rom 7:24-25
  
  24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
  
  25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind
  I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. KJV
  

 

[glorydaz]

Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

how long has the blood been around?

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

when was the blood shed?

Rv 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

was the people before Jesus came in the flesh under the blood?

When the blood was actually shed was when Jesus died on the cross, but in God's economy it was so from the foundation of the world. The plan was in place for the fall of man, the propitiation for man's sins was set in place from the beginning. The people before Jesus had access to the blood through faith. In this day and age, we call it retroactive.

Here, in Genesis, we see a looking forward to the blood.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

David foresaw the blood...

For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Abraham, too, looked forward to the blood.

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

 

[ozell]

were the people in the OT under the blood of Jesus?

if Adam had obeyed would the blood of Jesus be required?

1Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

if man listen to God and obey every word that comes from his mouth would repentance and the blood of Jesus be required?

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[ozell]

Again...sin REMAINS but does NOT REIGN in the truly converted person.
Who is the 'truly converted person'....by their fruits (fruits of the spirit) you shall know them.

What happened to Jesus 2000 years ago, is only history and spiritually makes no difference in one's sinful condition today, UNTIL Christ is REVEALED and through repentance, one turns from serving the flesh to serving the Spirit of Christ in their every day life of today...this condition does NOT mean one, anyone is WITHOUT sin, it does mean 'SIN DOES NOT REIGN' within the converted person!

I believe... inside the converted person SIN remains (dead) but GRACE reigns (life/ resurrection) on a daily basis! Though sin does NOT REIGN, it still remains in the body of flesh...

As Romans says....

• Rom 7:24-25
  
  24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
  
  25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind
  I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. KJV
  

why is Paul making a plea for deliverance when Jesus came and died for our sins?

why is Paul making a statement concerning death when Jesus came and died for our sins?

sin=death

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Ret]

why is Paul making a plea for deliverance when Jesus came and died for our sins?

why is Paul making a statement concerning death when Jesus came and died for our sins?

sin=death

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

In our natural earthly nature there is no 'enmity' till the death of Christ is 'PUT' - appalied to the life of each individual, as stated in Gen 3:15. When the 'enmity' is appalied the spiritual war begins inside the mind and 'Paul making a plea' is all about the war going on within the flesh. If the death of Christ was all there was...we would be 'most miserable'! There must be a resurrection!

• 1 Cor 15:19-22
  
  19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
  
  20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
  
  21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
  
  22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. KJV
  

Because of His resurrected life we are given to live in HOPE! and, hope maketh not ashamed! But we still live in this dual nature till mortality (sin-death) is swallowed up of immortality (eternal life)!

• 2 Corinthians 5:4
  
  4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that
  we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. KJV
  

 

[glorydaz]

were the people in the OT under the blood of Jesus?
Yes, through faith.
if Adam had obeyed would the blood of Jesus be required?
If Adam hadn't disobeyed...someone else would have...so, yes.
1Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

if man listen to God and obey every word that comes from his mouth would repentance and the blood of Jesus be required?
You're asking a question that could never take place.
The only perfect man was Christ....the blood was necessary.

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

God had a plan from the beginning....He created man to have fellowship with Him. He knew man would fall, so He provided the way out for his sin (Jesus on the cross). He had a plan to teach His children to walk in His ways (the Holy Spirit). He desired children, just as we do. He chastens His children just as we should chasten ours...so we can have a loving relationship with them. Same with God. The blood was necessary to do away with sin because God is righteous and sin is something God does not tolerate.

 

[ozell]

Maybe those particular verses do not make the case, but I am quite convinced that the entire corpus of New Testament writings clearly show that it is the entirety of the Mosaic Law that has been done away with.

1: For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2: For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3: But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4: For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5: Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

what law in verse 8 is Paul talking about?

 

[ozell]

God had a plan from the beginning....He created man to have fellowship with Him. He knew man would fall, so He provided the way out for his sin (Jesus on the cross). He had a plan to teach His children to walk in His ways (the Holy Spirit). He desired children, just as we do. He chastens His children just as we should chasten ours...so we can have a loving relationship with them. Same with God. The blood was necessary to do away with sin because God is righteous and

what better example is their than Abraham.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

because Abraham kept this he was called a friend of God

Jms 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

sin is something God does not tolerate

what is the bible definiton of sin?

is sin still amongs this creation/

are men still sinning?

what laws are inplace to keep us from sinning?

 

[ozell]

Gal 3v19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

what laws was added because of transgression?

 

[glorydaz]

Gal 3v19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

what laws was added because of transgression?

The Mosaic law was added to the covenant of faith because of transgression. The whole world is a prisoner of sin...held prisoners by the law which pointed out our transgressions. The law was a step toward the fulfilling of the promise given to Abraham. While the law put us under the curse, the promise lifts us up in Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

God had a plan from the beginning....He created man to have fellowship with Him. He knew man would fall, so He provided the way out for his sin (Jesus on the cross). He had a plan to teach His children to walk in His ways (the Holy Spirit). He desired children, just as we do. He chastens His children just as we should chasten ours...so we can have a loving relationship with them. Same with God. The blood was necessary to do away with sin because God is righteous and

what better example is their than Abraham.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

because Abraham kept this he was called a friend of God

Jms 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

[quote:yv91t8i3]sin is something God does not tolerate

what is the bible definiton of sin?

is sin still amongs this creation/

are men still sinning?

what laws are inplace to keep us from sinning?[/quote:yv91t8i3]

Abraham was justified by faith.
Sin is disobedience or rebellion against God.
The law is still in place for those who are without faith.
And, yes, sin is still around. Those who have been justified by faith in our Lord Jesus Christ have had our sins (all of our sins...past, present and future) washed in His precious blood. We are partakers of the promise, with direct access to God by His Holy Spirit. The law of Christ is written on our heart. It's the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ.

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

 

[Geo]

Yes, but has the basic penalty for sin changed?

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, but has the basic penalty for sin changed?

The wages of sin is death.

 

[Geo]

Yes. What happens to a born-again believer if he sins?

 

[glorydaz]

Yes. What happens to a born-again believer if he sins?

If he walks in any disobedience to the Holy Spirit, he will be chastened by God.

 

[Geo]

well, first technically everyone that sins places himself under the law. That is what sin is, breaking the law of God.

sons are chastened by God, not b**stards (that want to be called "sweethearts")

so what happens if the chastening is ignored?

 

[glorydaz]

well, first technically everyone that sins places himself under the law. That is what sin is, breaking the law of God.

sons are chastened by God, not b**stards (that want to be called "sweethearts")

so what happens if the chastening is ignored?

It's actually more than breaking any "law". It's rebellion against God.
It's failure to walk in obedience...which often entails "do this" and not just "do not do that".

Chastening is often ignored...if you have children, you know that. :yes
A loving parent will not spare the rod until compliance is accomplished.
Will a good parent allow his children to whine or cry their way out of discipline?
LOL They may cry or pout, but they will finally obey. We have a faithful and loving Father.

 

[Geo]

Yes we do have a faithful and loving Father.

And the Bible has more to offer about unrepentant sin:

Sin that is not repented of becomes iniquity. These permanently unrepentant one at one time in their walk will not listen to / can not hear the voice of the Holy Spirit anymore. (Self-will prevails instead of following God's Spirit). They become workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 13:41  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Matthew 23:28  Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 24:12  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Luke 13:27  But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.


Jesus speaks in Revelation to all 7 churches, tells them their faults, and asks them to overcome these. And we also hear what they can expect if they don't. Notice also what happens to the last church - if they don't repent.

How do we overcome?

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

 

[glorydaz]

When Jesus says He never knew you, that means He NEVER knew you.
Many people claim to know God...but people can be wrong.
Whole churches can be filled with men who "believe" but have not truly repented.
God looks at the heart of man...whether the heart has been circumcised or not.

Those with a circumcised heart desire to please God, and when they fail to please God they are remorseful. If we are true sons according to the promise, we will repent of our sins and believe in our heart that Jesus is Lord. When God circumcises a repentant heart, it's changed.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.