craigmn3
Member
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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farouk
Member
Bizactly right!
c3:
Well, excatly.
I know that some ppl don't get much further in their Christian life than understanding John chapter 3 and the new birth.
But, then, some don't even get as far as grasping John chapter 3, either...
I don`t think it really matters what kind of church because one sees this in every denomination and all churches. I would guess that there is hardly a church that does not exist that does not have cultural/social "Christians". I would even take it one step further and say many churches are filled with people like this. I think Jonathan was very right in his assessment of "Christians" in his high school years that the majority just don`t really think much about God. I lived in the Bible Belt and I can look back on my high school years where most everyone went to church but few had any interest in God at all which was reflected in the conversations, behavior, and life choices made.
SDJonathan
Member
That seems pretty accurate. However, I disagree with the claim that one can't have been a true christian if you ever left Christianity. The only way that can be true is if you define a true christian as "somebody who would never leave the church." The people of the Spanish inquisition would fit that definition, but if they were "true christians," That doesn't say much about exemplifying the morals of Christ.
barelohim
Member
thing is Mujhid.... it is not what a person does, that pleases God, it is what a person IS! You can pray every day, do good deeds, think good thoughts, study hard, gain knowledge and wisdom, etc... BUT if one isn't changed from the adamic nature, to the divine nature, it amounts to nothing.. If one is not BORN OF HIM, He isn't ones Father, or their GOD!
In Him
Bar.
This is merely my opinion, but I think it is possible for someone to be a true Christian and turn from the faith, BUT I think in these cases eventually the people will turn back to God, and I think these cases are much fewer than cases of cultural/social Christians turning from the faith.
barelohim
Member
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KJV: Hebrews Chapter 6
[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
bar
That is a good scripture which obviously I can`t argue with, but I was thinking more about examples like a mom who loses a young child and just can`t deal with the grief and has anger at God so she turns from God for a time, but eventually works out her anger and returns to God. Or a someone that has been greatly abused and mistreated may question why God did not protect them so they turn from God but eventually come back. I would say in their hearts they still have belief but there is anger and confusion at God that has to be worked out. It is a little different than just completely and truly becoming an atheist or turning to another religion.
barelohim
Member
pjt....I had an aunt, who lost a baby after its birth, and she blamed God for that.
For years, her own health slowly deteriated, and many doctors could only treat the symptoms of her illness, not the root cause. She went to church before this happened, and didn't afterwards.
The Lord caused me to visit her, and asked if she knew the scripture, ' a little leaven, will leaven the whole loaf!" She said she recalled hearing it! I said, " so will a little anger/hate! " I said, " you have been angry with God for taking your baby, and your illness has come upon you because of it! God didn't cause it, but allowed it, because she had willing closed the door.
I told her what to do, to gain back her faith and strength, before I left! But I knew that a root of bitterness, is hard to remove!
She died a year later, and I don't know if she made it right with Him, or not. Won't know till that day!
In Him
Bar.....
For years, her own health slowly deteriated, and many doctors could only treat the symptoms of her illness, not the root cause. She went to church before this happened, and didn't afterwards.
The Lord caused me to visit her, and asked if she knew the scripture, ' a little leaven, will leaven the whole loaf!" She said she recalled hearing it! I said, " so will a little anger/hate! " I said, " you have been angry with God for taking your baby, and your illness has come upon you because of it! God didn't cause it, but allowed it, because she had willing closed the door.
I told her what to do, to gain back her faith and strength, before I left! But I knew that a root of bitterness, is hard to remove!
She died a year later, and I don't know if she made it right with Him, or not. Won't know till that day!
In Him
Bar.....
That is a powerful story, but I guess the line is drawn when someone turns their back as opposed to someone that literally turns their back, walks out the door, closes and locks it, and throws away the key forever. Wouldn`t you say that would be the case with the scripture you presented? I mean in the prodigal son, the son left his father to go to the world but in the end he came back and his father rejoiced. His father didn`t say "you blew your chance. It`s too late to come back now." The father was hoping and waiting for his son just as God waits for His children that turn their backs on Him. Or we could look all through the OT where God`s people turn their backs on God but God calls them back to repentence. Or where Peter denied Jesus 3 times, but later loudly proclaimed His name. So God`s children can turn their backs on God. The difference is those who completely close their hearts and throw away the key.
Yes that`s a great point, and I believe all through the OT we see God going to great lengths to draw His people back to Him when time and time again they turned from Him. He is not a God that just throws in the towel the second someone else does. He fights hard to draw His people back to Him and as in the parable of the lost sheep, the shepherd will leave the whole flock to go seek and draw back his one lost sheep. He doesn`t say of well it wondered off but I still have my 99, no that one sheep is too valuable to him to lose. He goes and hunts until he finds it. That is the kind of God we have!!!
musicayla
Member
In my experience as a believer with friends from all walks of life (believers turned unbelievers, athiests, agnostics, etc), the majority fall into two categories: Those who have been called to repent of sin and refuse because "God wants us to be happy" and those who had some tragedy in their life and are now asking "Where was God then?"
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->I often get the "a terrible thing happened and God let it happen therefore God does not exist" from former believers.
But the stumbling stone they had before them was their construct of God, they believed in a God that would protect them or their community or their country or the world from tribulations and disasters.
But the God of Abraham never gave any such assurances of protection to Christians. In fact Jesus stated it quite clearly that in this world we will face tribulation.
I believe in a God that does not protect me from troubles, I believe in a God that gives me strength and peace of mind to face the troubles i have faced and will face before my time has ended in this life.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
But the stumbling stone they had before them was their construct of God, they believed in a God that would protect them or their community or their country or the world from tribulations and disasters.
But the God of Abraham never gave any such assurances of protection to Christians. In fact Jesus stated it quite clearly that in this world we will face tribulation.
I believe in a God that does not protect me from troubles, I believe in a God that gives me strength and peace of mind to face the troubles i have faced and will face before my time has ended in this life.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
A
Alabaster
Guest
Absolutely, BUT:
Psalm 34:17-19
The Lord hears his people when they call to him for help.
He rescues them from all their troubles.
The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the LORD delivers him out of them all.
He goes before us making the rough places smooth and the crooked places straight, follows behind us, walks beside us, lifts us up from below us, and rejoices over us. He points the way, saying, "This is the way, walk in it!"
In truth, we have every one of us been spared MUCH TROUBLE that we are completely oblivious to---and may I boldly say---EVERY DAY! The only thing God doesn't promise deliverance from is PERSECUTION, which His grace will be enough for us to endure.
musicayla
Member
I think the problem today is people are taking this too literally. Many new Christians think that trusting in Christ is an easy way out of life's difficulties. We are promised deliverance, yes, but because we can never be perfect or sinless, bad things still happen to good, God-fearing people.
A
Alabaster
Guest
Hopefully we are teaching new believers to expect trials, but with Jesus Christ, we will pass the tests when we persevere in faith.
I can be delivered out of my troubles by death.
As in eternal salvation. Not nessecary physical salvation from suffering or persecution.
Once again we can be delivered by our deaths. Also the wisdom of salvation can cause one to look upon their troubles as if they are nothing.
Ecclesiastes 11
I returned and saw under the sun that—The race is not to the swift, Nor the battle to the strong, Nor bread to the wise, Nor riches to men of understanding, Nor favor to men of skill; But time and chance happen to them all.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
A
Alabaster
Guest
You are kind of low-balling it, don't you think?
God has a wonderful plan for each one of us, for our abundance and success--in Him. He wants to use us for His glory to bring the message of salvation to the lost! Death is the final end of our physical life on earth, but He is our healer and our champion! His promises are to prosper us in life because He loves His own!