What makes some people stop being a Christian?

[stovebolts]

Lance,
I wouldn't go as far as to call it trolling. Perhaps honestly trying to understand your position, or at the most simply jostling for the upper hand, but certainly not trolling.

Now then, your post has many violations according to our TOS... yet you receive grace because I understand how you're seeing this.

Regardless, if you would like to move your argument to the debate forum so it's just you and I where we can remain civil and focused, I would be more than happy to engage you in productive dialog as long as you understand that I may be slow in responding and will post as time allows.

Fair?

Jeff

 

[Lance_Iguana]

Lance,
I wouldn't go as far as to call it trolling. Perhaps honestly trying to understand your position, or at the most simply jostling for the upper hand, but certainly not trolling.

Now then, your post has many violations according to our TOS... yet you receive grace because I understand how you're seeing this.

Regardless, if you would like to move your argument to the debate forum so it's just you and I where we can remain civil and focused, I would be more than happy to engage you in productive dialog as long as you understand that I may be slow in responding and will post as time allows.

Fair?

Jeff

Actually that would be a good place to discuss this. I get quite frustrated when I'm demanded to pretty much give all my information and explain myself all the time, but no one wants to do the same for me. It feels like a one way street where everyone assumes I'm bad before they even talk to me, or just have a loose collection of scripture that when examined closely, don't fit.

I would love to have a formal debate on this.

 

[stovebolts]

That will work out well then Lance. In return, I would ask that you don't frustrate yourself any further by engaging in others on this topic. Why put yourself through the frustration? I certainly don't go up to a stove and touch a burner knowing I'm going to get burnt... Understand?

I can see your frustration, and I can understand your frustration. As far as a debate, I'm a bit relaxed in that area, but it will afford us a calm place to discuss the matter.

Grace and peace,
Jeff

 

[Adstar]

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I knew it, you never had the intention of being honest. This was all a show, and once the table was turned on you, you became a coward.

I gave you the information you wanted, but refuse to do the same for me.

Congratulation, you just reported for trolling.

Wait a minute. You said you where going to walk away from this, you would be “outâ€. But you have lied.

No i was not trolling.

I have watched you and i believe you have been blinded to the truth and have been given over to depravity. Therefore any explanation to you would be as casting pearls before swine, You would trample great wisdom with your hate.

Your reaction when i said:

Adstar said:

Ok lets get a firm clarification.

was:

Lance said:

Finally

As in Yeahhhh i am finally going to be able to clarify things to this guy.

But what happened the first question i asked to get such clarity from you:

Adstar said:

You never have sexual relations with other men and even think of doing so,you agree with the scriptures that men have sex with men is an abomination? Yes... No... ?

Was this:

I'll answer your questions as soon as you answer the ones I posed to you in the post before this one. Until then, I won't play your game anymore.

If you want me to answer questions, answer mine. If you won't I'm done.

You shut up shop.. You made a big thing out of finally getting to a point where you could express clarification, and when i give you the points for you to clarify you shut up shop.

An artful dodge.
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]I needed clarification from you to progress further with you. Your Dodge confirmed within me your two faced dealing with me.

Remember you are on a Christian website. Tolerance for your slander may go on for a time. But i doubt even the most liberal moderator will put up with the likes of you for ever.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[pjt]

May I suggest that we get back on topic to "What makes some people stop being a Christian? " Thank you!!!

 

[coffeeelover]

When I stopped believe in the literal translation of the bible, and believing in the supernatural I pretty much stopped being a Christian. Too many Christians are to dogmatic about how these myths must be true, and spend too much time trying to force others to accept it as truth. They essentially kick out anyone who doesn't think like them.

 

[pjt]

When I stopped believe in the literal translation of the bible, and believing in the supernatural I pretty much stopped being a Christian. Too many Christians are to dogmatic about how these myths must be true, and spend too much time trying to force others to accept it as truth. They essentially kick out anyone who doesn't think like them.

Do you feel you left Christianity or you were kicked out of Christianity or a little of both?

 

[Pebbles]

I have seen many people seemingly at one with God and they break away because they have lost a loved one or have suffered a personal tragedy. So that person looked upon The God that they where close to as a God that would keep them away from personal tragedies. Of course the God of Abraham has made no such promises about keeping us from the suffering that is common to this world.

Ultimately I don't blame them if my love to the Abrahamic god is so important to him and he loves me... then maybe he should show it in a slightly better way that I might respond to.

You'd move to protect those you love I would. if you did love them so either he Can't or He won't.
The idea that he won't makes me hateful and angry thus he can't on account of him not existing is a happier way to live my life.

As it stands what his love appears to consist of is individuals with a similar mentallity to Dr strangelove on these forums chasing me down. Passing laws that prevent me from making a life for myself humiliating me publicly preventing me from begin employed anywhere, getting me evicted from my home separating me from my family and friends and subjecting me to violence with legal little recourse.

How do you think I will respond to that?

 

[pjt]

As it stands what his love appears to consist of is individuals with a similar mentallity to Dr strangelove on these forums chasing me down. Passing laws that prevent me from making a life for myself humiliating me publicly preventing me from begin employed anywhere, getting me evicted from my home separating me from my family and friends and subjecting me to violence with legal little recourse.

How do you think I will respond to that?

I don`t understand this statement. Are you saying strangelove or Christians or God is causing you not to get a job, getting evicted, etc?

 

[coffeeelover]

Do you feel you left Christianity or you were kicked out of Christianity or a little of both?

Both, but more kicked out.

 

[Pebbles]

I don`t understand this statement. Are you saying strangelove or Christians or God is causing you not to get a job, getting evicted, etc?

I'm saying that certain Christians with specific philosophies claiming that god makes them behave like that result in me suffering discrimination.

 

[craigmn3]

Bottom Line....they never were Christians

One cannot have a relationship with God almighty and suddenly be convinced on a whim that He is not so.

Saved people, people who have allowed God to take root in their souls...know God. And no amount of gas from a man can turn their heads.

But not everyone who says they believe....is saved. There are a lot of faith abortions out there. People who agreed with the gospel, gave it a nodding assent, but never made room in their hearts for God....and when trial or temptation came, they were carried away like the man who built his house on shifting sand.

Mark 4 relates this reality to me the best.

The Parable of the Sower

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24323>3</SUP> “Listen! Behold, a sower went out to sow. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24324>4</SUP> And it happened, as he sowed, that some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds of the air<SUP>.</SUP> came and devoured it. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24325>5</SUP> Some fell on stony ground, where it did not have much earth; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of earth. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24326>6</SUP> But when the sun was up it was scorched, and because it had no root it withered away. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24327>7</SUP> And some seed fell among thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24328>8</SUP> But other seed fell on good ground and yielded a crop that sprang up, increased and produced: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24329>9</SUP> And He said to them, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
The Purpose of Parables

The Parable of the Sower Explained

<SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24333>13</SUP> And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24334>14</SUP> The sower sows the word. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24335>15</SUP> And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24336>16</SUP> These likewise are the ones sown on stony ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with gladness; <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24337>17</SUP> and they have no root in themselves, and so endure only for a time. Afterward, when tribulation or persecution arises for the word’s sake, immediately they stumble. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24338>18</SUP> Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24339>19</SUP> and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. <SUP class=versenum id=en-NKJV-24340>20</SUP> But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

Of the 4 types of people (soil) three accepted the word...gladly. But only one gave it room in their heart to root and grow, and that growth...production is the sign of life, in this case new life.

The use of a seed here is very apt, because when a seed germenates, it does so of it's own power, using the energy stored in it, to produce both root and leaf. But that energy is soon used up and unless the seed finds room for it's root, it will soon die.

So too many people start off with a bang and soon struggle as they begin with that Faith energy, but soon that has to rooted and the slow march towards the reward of our hope begins

In the end, anyone who falls away..(as opposed to the violent ripping away a Christian must do to seperate themselves from God) never were Christians at all.

 

[lamplady]

Bottom Line....they never were Christians

One cannot have a relationship with God almighty and suddenly be convinced on a whim that He is not so.

Saved people, people who have allowed God to take root in their souls...know God. And no amount of gas from a man can turn their heads.

But not everyone who says they believe....is saved. There are a lot of faith abortions out there. People who agreed with the gospel, gave it a nodding assent, but never made room in their hearts for God....and when trial or temptation came, they were carried away like the man who built his house on shifting sand.

... Thank you ... ...

 

[pjt]

Both, but more kicked out.

What do you think could have been done better? And more specifically do you feel you were kicked out of church or Christianty?

 

[pjt]

I'm saying that certain Christians with specific philosophies claiming that god makes them behave like that result in me suffering discrimination.

I don`t know your case specifically but I know lots of people are without jobs right now, Christians included, and without work, people get evicted. Have you considered that your situation may be because of the economic situation rather than because of Christians? Christians are suffering in this economic climate too.

 

[Pebbles]

I don`t know your case specifically but I know lots of people are without jobs right now, Christians included, and without work, people get evicted. Have you considered that your situation may be because of the economic situation rather than because of Christians? Christians are suffering in this economic climate too.

No you don't understand Christian derived assailants are almost never clandestine in there reasons. They think they are so "moral" and up themselves that they have no reason to hide there hate.

First the Landlord was fine with me refered to me as female and by my chosen name then he sees my old male name in a document somewhere he asks me about that I not wanting to be deceitful tell him about myself. He then mentions that he has a huge problem with people "like you" that living in his property, I asked him if I could do anything he said no. then one day as he lives with us he just turns around to me and says "I don't want you living here anymore your an affront to my christian spirituality" Then goes on about the story of sodom and a whole load of other bible thumping crap and threatened to physically throw me out that night. This issue is still ongoing it's become very complicated but I've not been thrown out and he makes me uneasy.

When I was younger another group of Christians attacked me I was acquainted with them we were discussing something else they then expressed views that homosexuals were disgusting and that they were good biblical people and thus agreed with the sentiment of stoning homosexuals to death. I turned around and glared at them to which earned me a slew of homosexual slurs although I'd not said anything to them.
they saw me and later after school (we were about 16) They confronted me. Accused me of begin homosexual I refused to answer there question and continued walking home after following me abit I heard a loud banging sound I turned around and they were throwing rocks at me. I ran, I turned back briefly to see how far away they were and I instead caught a large rock right above my left eye splitting my eyebrow open dazing me. they grabbed me and shoved me to the ground where I was pelted with rocks at close range attempts to get up earned me a kick in the ribs. I told them I wasn't gay but they didn't believe me. They left after nearly pummeling me into unconsciousness I heard them say "this was gods way of straightening me out" but with more slurs and swearing I had bruises on my torso I had a gash on my eyebrow and a swollen black eye. the eyebrow left a scar.

I myself haven't been fired from a job on that basis. But I know countless others who have.

 

[jasoncran]

No you don't understand Christian derived assailants are almost never clandestine in there reasons. They think they are so "moral" and up themselves that they have no reason to hide there hate.

First the Landlord was fine with me refered to me as female and by my chosen name then he sees my old male name in a document somewhere he asks me about that I not wanting to be deceitful tell him about myself. He then mentions that he has a huge problem with people "like you" that living in his property, I asked him if I could do anything he said no. then one day as he lives with us he just turns around to me and says "I don't want you living here anymore your an affront to my christian spirituality" Then goes on about the story of sodom and a whole load of other bible thumping crap and threatened to physically throw me out that night. This issue is still ongoing it's become very complicated and makes me uneasy.

When I was younger another group of Christians attacked me I was acquainted with them we were discussing something else they then expressed views that homosexuals were disgusting and that they were good biblical people and thus agreed with the sentiment of stoning homosexuals to death. I turned around and glared at them to which earned me a slew of homosexual slurs although I'd not said anything to them.
they saw me and later after school (we were about 16) They confronted me. Accused me of begin homosexual I refused to answer there question and continued walking home after following me abit I heard a loud banging sound I turned around and they were throwing rocks at me. I ran, I turned back briefly to see how far away they were and I instead caught a large rock right above my left eye splitting my eyebrow open dazing me. they grabbed me and shoved me to the ground where I was pelted with rocks at close range attempts to get up earned me a kick in the ribs. I told them I wasn't gay but they didn't believe me. They left after nearly pummeling me into unconsciousness I heard them say "this was gods way of straightening me out" but with more slurs and swearing I had bruises on my torso I had a gash on my eyebrow and a swollen black eye. the eyebrow left a scar.

I myself haven't been fired from a job on that basis. But I know countless others who have.

thats sick. i have a coworker who i honestly think would do the same with me if i came out and said i had a male relationship once and since repented.

 

[coffeeelover]

Lusts and desires beget rebellion.
Rebellion begets transgression.
Transgression begets fear of accountability.
Fear of accountability begets excuses and attempts at rationalization.
Excuses and attempts at rationalization begets auto-theism. "I am the I AM." complex.

That is a common scenario and recipe for apostasy.

Did you just make that up or did you get it from somewhere?

 

[coffeeelover]

Bottom Line....they never were Christians


In the end, anyone who falls away..(as opposed to the violent ripping away a Christian must do to seperate themselves from God) never were Christians at all.

I see you follow the O.S.A.S theology. That is debated all the time here. I think as it stands the those against it have the better argument.

 

[jasoncran]

I see you follow the O.S.A.S theology. That is debated all the time here. I think as it stands the those against it have the better argument.

being that i have chosen to sin and draw away from the lord at times. that ripping part is the truth, god wont just stop and let you sin without warning you first.

a christian that choose to sin like that is often the most miserable when he does as he or she realise that he was wrong and now is to shamed to repent. so stays in that cess pool of misery.