What No Futurist Believes

[Hitch]

39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
43Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
48I am that bread of life.
49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Whats funny is that most futurists claim to take the scriptures literally. Yet they seldom ,if ever quote Jesus Christ.

 

[Hitch]

In this passage from Jn 6 Jesus specificly brings up the resurrection four times.

Odd you never see these verses quoted in a rousing ripper of repentance and rapture.

I dont think I ever seen these verses used in defense of and earthly millennial kingdom. You could get the idea that the resurrection didnt have anything to to with these matters.

To be fair once in a while some one will try to say that when Jesus placed the resurrection at the last day, he didnt mean it. Its one of those strange things done in the name of literalism.

I have to admit, I like being able to quote JESUS CHRIST in support of my position.

 

[Alabaster]

Please define 'futurist'.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I cant see a futurist having any problem believing the last day is future.Am I missing something here?

 

[Hitch]

I cant see a futurist having any problem believing the last day is future.Am I missing something here?

'Futurist' a good example of which is found in the Dispensationalists camp , henceforth 'DF,' claim to take the scriptures as literally as possible. They make a great point of this.

As you are aware DF teaching requires a resurrection immediately prior to the 'rapture' . This is followed by seven years of trouble , which in turn is followed by 1,000 years of personall bodily present rule by Jesus Christ on earth.

So it is not possible that both Christ and the DF are correct wrt when the resurrection will take place.

You're right no futurist nor any one else should have any trouble beliveing what Jesus said ,in explicit terms, as to when the resurrection would take place.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

'Futurist' a good example of which is found in the Dispensationalists camp , henceforth 'DF,' claim to take the scriptures as literally as possible. They make a great point of this.

As you are aware DF teaching requires a resurrection immediately prior to the 'rapture' . This is followed by seven years of trouble , which in turn is followed by 1,000 years of personall bodily present rule by Jesus Christ on earth.

So it is not possible that both Christ and the DF are correct wrt when the resurrection will take place.

You're right no futurist nor any one else should have any trouble beliveing what Jesus said ,in explicit terms, as to when the resurrection would take place.

I thought it was a pre trib veiw that the rapture took place before a 7 years of trouble.
There are some who believe the rapture takes place after the tribulation.They believe it could take place on the last day even.What would you call them?

 

[Hitch]

I thought it was a pre trib veiw that the rapture took place before a 7 years of trouble.
There are some who believe the rapture takes place after the tribulation.They believe it could take place on the last day even.What would you call them?

I call them silly but they usually call them selves 'mid-tribbers' or ' post -tribbers'

Its a general term so if you want to find an exception of some such be my guest.

 

[Theofilus]

I call them silly but they usually call them selves 'mid-tribbers' or ' post -tribbers'

Its a general term so if you want to find an exception of some such be my guest.

Shilohsfoal was just asking for clarification of the terms you're using, since you don't seem to be using the most common ones. Insults are unnecessary.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I call them silly but they usually call them selves 'mid-tribbers' or ' post -tribbers'

Its a general term so if you want to find an exception of some such be my guest.

You call someone silly because they believe My 24;29-31?

Take a lesson from Jesus here hitch.
Mt 24;31
And he shall send his angles with a great sound of a trumpet,and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other.

The elect wouldnt have any problem believing Jesus would gather them after the tribulation because the elect believe Jesus.Why would you call the elect silly?

 

[Hitch]

You call someone silly because they believe My 24;29-31?

Take a lesson from Jesus here hitch.
Mt 24;31
And he shall send his angles with a great sound of a trumpet,and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other.

The elect wouldnt have any problem believing Jesus would gather them after the tribulation because the elect believe Jesus.Why would you call the elect silly?

Ya think that that trumpet is the last trumpet ?

 

[Vic C.]

Ya think that that trumpet is the last trumpet ?

Oh goody, I get to post this again. :D

The Last Trump

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Ya think that that trumpet is the last trumpet ?

The last trumpet Ive read of in the bible is this trumpet.
Rev 10;7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel,when he shall begin to sound,the mystery of God should be finished,as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Do I need to tell you about that mystery ,or do you already know about it?
Ive heard that mystery is pretty quick.In the twinkling of an eye so Ive been told.

Rev11;15
And the seventh angel sounded;and there were great voices in heaven,saying,The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Im sure there are plenty of people who would argue that the people of the kingdoms of this world would belong to Christ before this seventh trump but I dont.Im sure they were bought for a price but I believe that is the day of redemption of the purchased possesion.

 

[Hitch]

The last trumpet Ive read of in the bible is this trumpet.
Rev 10;7
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel,when he shall begin to sound,the mystery of God should be finished,as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Do I need to tell you about that mystery ,or do you already know about it?
Ive heard that mystery is pretty quick.In the twinkling of an eye so Ive been told.

Rev11;15
And the seventh angel sounded;and there were great voices in heaven,saying,The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord,and of his Christ;and he shall reign for ever and ever.


Im sure there are plenty of people who would argue that the people of the kingdoms of this world would belong to Christ before this seventh trump but I dont.I believe that is the day of redemption of the purchased possesion.

Is that a yes or a no ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Is that a yes or a no ?

Do I need to tell you about the mystery God declared unto his servants or do you already know?

 

[NJBeliever]

You call someone silly because they believe My 24;29-31?

Take a lesson from Jesus here hitch.
Mt 24;31
And he shall send his angles with a great sound of a trumpet,and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,from one end of heaven to the other.

The elect wouldnt have any problem believing Jesus would gather them after the tribulation because the elect believe Jesus.Why would you call the elect silly?

The rapture does not involve us being gathered by angels from one end of heaven to the other. Paul describes the rapture in detail and none of this is included. The dead rise out of their graves and then we are caught up into the clouds. No angels, no gathering, no four winds.

What you cite is not the rapture.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

The rapture does not involve us being gathered by angels from one end of heaven to the other. Paul describes the rapture in detail and none of this is included. The dead rise out of their graves and then we are caught up into the clouds. No angels, no gathering, no four winds.

What you cite is not the rapture.

Mt 13;38-39
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.


You say no gathering.No Angels
Jesus said there is.

 

[Alabaster]

There are two events. One is the rapture of the Church and the other is the great harvest of the wicked and righteous who remain at the end of Tribulation when the Lord returns bodily to earth with His Church, the Bride. Every eye at that time will see Him coming.

 

[Hitch]

There are two events. One is the rapture of the Church and the other is the great harvest of the wicked and righteous who remain at the end of Tribulation when the Lord returns bodily to earth with His Church, the Bride. Every eye at that time will see Him coming.

This is a good example; The text of the OP quotes Jesus Christ, a first century bible teacher of some report. Allie's assertion above, ignores the text and offers no scripture citation, nothing but standard DF dogma.

Its obvious the text of John 6 was avoided because it doesnt fit the system Allie outlines.

 

[reba]

There are two events. One is the rapture of the Church and the other is the great harvest of the wicked and righteous who remain at the end of Tribulation when the Lord returns bodily to earth with His Church, the Bride. Every eye at that time will see Him coming.

Alabaster, Do you understand the above statement to coincide with Matthew 13:30?

 

[NJBeliever]

This is a good example; The text of the OP quotes Jesus Christ, a first century bible teacher of some report. Allie's assertion above, ignores the text and offers no scripture citation, nothing but standard DF dogma.

Its obvious the text of John 6 was avoided because it doesnt fit the system Allie outlines.

This is a good example; The text of the OP quotes Jesus Christ, a first century bible teacher of some report. Allie's assertion above, ignores the text and offers no scripture citation, nothing but standard DF dogma.

Its obvious the text of John 6 was avoided because it doesnt fit the system Allie outlines.

The problem is that the text that was quoted of Jesus Christ was incorrectly interpreted. Jesus is not describing the rapture when He details HIS ANGELS gathering people.

As for John 6 -- Again, it requires proper interpretation. Jesus has different messages for THE JEWS and he GENTILES when it comes to the end times (i.e., Him saying "the Jews require a sign.."). There are three resurrections in the end times. The rapture precedes the Biblical Day of The Lord/70th Week

Revelation 7: 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Resurrection 2 occurs just before the Millenial Reign:

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This will the saints of the Great Tribulation and specifically, the 1/3 remnant of Israel. These are the Jews who will be raised in the last day. You have to be very careful with whom is being addressed by Jesus in Scripture:

"Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

Is this a general message to the world? Was he speaking to the Babylonians? No. This is a specific message to the Jews.

The3rd resurrection is at the end of the 1000 years.

There are raptured saints who do not have to endure and there are tribulation saints. Jesus addresses both in the Gospels.