brother Paul
Member
Hebrews 2:14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver ( to snatch away, rescue, save) them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…
Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.
4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in out sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us).
Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).
Yes beloved we have been redeemed (ransomed) because of the riches of His grace by such a steadfast love (God is love) not because His need for legal justice that was satisfied. Death never “satisfies” God. It NEVER makes Him happy. God wanted Adam and Eve to avoid this consequence just as your parent who tells you do not run out into the busy traffic does not want you to get hit by a car…it was not a decree or threat of punishment for wrong doing, it was a warning from love of the inevitable consequence. Christ was a propitiation (to propitiate – to win or regain favor by doing or offering something pleasing). He was the offering (of Himself, willfully) of that which disturbed our peace (death). His blood covers our sin and transgression as an acceptable exchange (kippur - to cover as in an atonement). He redeemed us (ga’al - to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer not a substitute victim, to avenge and ransom us. He was not was “victimized” in place of us. Thus God in His forebearance “passed over” our sins (Romans 3:25-26) not satisfied His need to punish.
You see beloved, there is a problem which many in the west are not aware of. In the Bible, in the Hebrew as well as the Greek, to be just or justified (as it is translated into English) is not about getting justice in the sense of vengeance, it is about being “made right” (dikaioo). This is something God does because He loves us. When the scripture says “the just shall love by faith” (a principle which Paul leans on heavily) the word “just” here means the “righteous”…to be justified means to be righteousized. The one who is righteous before God is one who lives by faith (thus having been declared righteous by God, like Abraham). Such a one is given God’s Righteousness in exchange for their faith. God counts their faith as Righteousness.
God did not hate us and want to smite us in His wrath, He loved us even in our sin (it grieved Him) and He Himself became man so we could become the sons of God (to restore the fellowship). Think of the parable of the prodigal? What does this tell us of the father? Was he waiting to beat the son, punish the son? No He was waiting for him to come to a right mind. He was already ready and willing to embrace him and reconcile with him and restore him to his rightful place. This is an analogy of the Father in relation to sinners…we grieve Him not enrage Him.
If Christ suffered a “full outpouring of the wrath” as John MacAuthur and others teach, and it was His wrath that was eternally satisfied, then there is no more wrath (it has been satisfied in full otherwise the cross was insufficient)…but I beg to differ as we know there is yet a wrath at the outpouring of the vials and again at the judgment seat. Think on these things…
In His love
Paul
John 3:16 For God so loved the world (not for God was so angry at the world) that He gave His only begotten Son…
Romans 5:8 But God shows his love for us (not His wrath) in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. This Christ’s death was an action of the love of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath (we are children of “orge” – children of anger, and natural disposition, temper, indignation, agitation – this speaks of our character, not God’s anger at us because of a sense of a need to satisfy His justice), just as the others.
4 But God (now we address His attitude toward us), who IS rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us (loved as in past tense – while we were in our sins -notice it says nothing off His vehement hatred or anger at us), 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us (not wrath toward us)in Christ Jesus.
1 John 4:19 - We love Him because He first loved us (while we were still in out sin He loved us, and was not filled with wrath toward us).
Yes it is in his love and in his pity that he redeemed us. Did we deserve this love? No! We were children of orge (disobedience)…we were indignant, obstinate, of natural disposition focused on the whims of the flesh and the will of our own minds. So though He died on behalf of all mankind (making the ransom available for all) not all individuals will be saved because most will reject His gift of grace given to restore, redeem, reconcile (the Lord Jesus who loved us so much He willfully laid down His life).
Yes beloved we have been redeemed (ransomed) because of the riches of His grace by such a steadfast love (God is love) not because His need for legal justice that was satisfied. Death never “satisfies” God. It NEVER makes Him happy. God wanted Adam and Eve to avoid this consequence just as your parent who tells you do not run out into the busy traffic does not want you to get hit by a car…it was not a decree or threat of punishment for wrong doing, it was a warning from love of the inevitable consequence. Christ was a propitiation (to propitiate – to win or regain favor by doing or offering something pleasing). He was the offering (of Himself, willfully) of that which disturbed our peace (death). His blood covers our sin and transgression as an acceptable exchange (kippur - to cover as in an atonement). He redeemed us (ga’al - to redeem, act as kinsman-redeemer not a substitute victim, to avenge and ransom us. He was not was “victimized” in place of us. Thus God in His forebearance “passed over” our sins (Romans 3:25-26) not satisfied His need to punish.
You see beloved, there is a problem which many in the west are not aware of. In the Bible, in the Hebrew as well as the Greek, to be just or justified (as it is translated into English) is not about getting justice in the sense of vengeance, it is about being “made right” (dikaioo). This is something God does because He loves us. When the scripture says “the just shall love by faith” (a principle which Paul leans on heavily) the word “just” here means the “righteous”…to be justified means to be righteousized. The one who is righteous before God is one who lives by faith (thus having been declared righteous by God, like Abraham). Such a one is given God’s Righteousness in exchange for their faith. God counts their faith as Righteousness.
God did not hate us and want to smite us in His wrath, He loved us even in our sin (it grieved Him) and He Himself became man so we could become the sons of God (to restore the fellowship). Think of the parable of the prodigal? What does this tell us of the father? Was he waiting to beat the son, punish the son? No He was waiting for him to come to a right mind. He was already ready and willing to embrace him and reconcile with him and restore him to his rightful place. This is an analogy of the Father in relation to sinners…we grieve Him not enrage Him.
If Christ suffered a “full outpouring of the wrath” as John MacAuthur and others teach, and it was His wrath that was eternally satisfied, then there is no more wrath (it has been satisfied in full otherwise the cross was insufficient)…but I beg to differ as we know there is yet a wrath at the outpouring of the vials and again at the judgment seat. Think on these things…
In His love
Paul
hi brother Paul and welcome to CF.