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What the Quran says about Christians

  • Thread starter Thread starter SeekingChrist
  • Start date Start date
cook92 said:
Have you read "The Crisis of Islam: Holy War and Unholy Terror" by Bernard Lewis? I didn't know much about Muslims or Muslim extremist before I read this six years ago. I thought it was a good introduction into their viewpoint.

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Islam-Unho ... t_ep_dpi_1

Admittedly, I have never read this book, but judging by the review from "Amazon.com" & "Publishers Weekly" I suspect its politically correct drivel. The "long-standing resentment" harboured by the Islamic community was hardly caused by the Crusades. What of the Islamic Conquests which predate the Crusades? or the fact that Islam has been hostile to Christians and Jews (great Satan, little Satan - America, Israel) since its inception? and this thing about history being more "important" to people brought up in Muslim households is a silly excuse used to justify hate.

And I LOL'd at the following:

...how Muslim extremism has taken root and succeeded in bastardizing the fundamental Islamic tenets of peace.

What tenets of peace? For non-Muslims, all Islam has to offer is Dhimmitude & for us Apostates, all it has to offer is death. If Americans honestly want to "understand why Muslim extremists felt such passionate animosity toward the Western world", all they have to do is go to the source of this hate: The Quran & Hadith. Contrary to the politically correct defence of Islam, It is the so-called "moderates" who have been bastardizing the fundamental Islamic tenets, not the other way round. The (painfully silent & indifferent) moderates will always lose, as Islamic scripture is not on their side.
 
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No Gabe I didn't..

Thanks
 
@turnorburn: Why did you post that? Do you agree with it or are you looking for a rebuttal?
 
turnorburn said:
I wrote it because that's the tittle to this thread.. :yes

turnorburn

Turn, you do realise that you have posted a pro-Islamic & anti-Christian article?
 
turnorburn said:
Why do you flaunt it around a Christian forum that your not a Christian,
I don't 'flaunt' anything. What makes you think that?

turnorburn said:
do you want a rebuttal or not?
A rebuttal to what?

turnorburn said:
I wrote it because that's the tittle to this thread.. :yes

turnorburn
You didn't write it. It is dawaganda meant to 'show' (lie to) Christians that Islam is 'not so different' to Christianity.
 
turnorburn said:
Why do you flaunt it around a Christian forum that your not a Christian,
do you want a rebuttal or not?

2z7pg9i.gif


Obviously :yes

I have better things to do with my time. ugh
 
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I find it curious why people in a cult follow or listen to the writings of a dead person, the
Mormons have Joseph Smith the Jehovah witnesses have Charles Taze Russell, the
Seven Day Adventists have Ellen White. We Christians have Jesus Christ the only
one to conquer death. Oh! The Muslims have Mohammad, last I heard he
was dead along with the rest.

Sorry about yesterday Gabe I was running on empty. :yes


turnorburn

:twocents
 
SeekingChrist said:
Quranic Verses that Advocate the Mistreatment of Jews and Christians
Excerpt from "Islam and Islamic Fundamentalism" (available at http://www.TheJISSCorporation.com)

Of the 3 major religions of the world, Islam is the only one that advocates overt mistreatment of one or more members of this religious triumvirate.

Example

“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends: They are
but friend to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily, Allah guideth not a people unjust.â€Â
Holy Quran 5:51, http://www.tafsir.com

Here is Ibn Kathir’s commentary on this Quranic verse of contention:

"Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them. Allah then states that they are friends of each other and He gives a warning threat to those who do this."
Ibn Kathir, http://www.tafsir.com

As you can see, in regards to Islamic jurisprudence and the moral position of Muslims, Ibn Kathir, who is considered a pious Sunni Muslim scholar, clearly represents views that have facilitated and exacerbated the spread of radical and terror based initiatives by Islamic Fundamentalist groups.




Strategic Thought Note:
Modern Islamic scholars have tried to rewrite history concerning the translation of the Quranic verse that implores Muslims to refrain from taking Jews and Christians for friends by suggesting that this verse is commonly mistranslated. However, in addition to the fact that these scholars do not comply with the Salaf as do over 80% of the Islamic population that has a total numerical strength of 3 billion Muslims, these scholars can’t seem to “offset or explain†why the most prominent author of Quranic commentary (Ibn Kathir) was inclined to write such an unapologetic and morally deficient commentary on this verse that suggests that there are no errors in its translation.

The modern scholars, who represent a very small contingent of the Muslim population given its numerical strength and global representation often quote the following verse to suggest that Muslims can be friends with Jews, Christians and other non Muslims:

"God forbids you not respecting those who have not fought against you for religion's sake, and who have not driven you forth from your homes, that ye should act righteously and justly towards them; verily, God loves the just! He only forbids you to make patrons of those who have fought against you for religion's sake, and driven you forth from your homes, or have aided in your expulsion;and whoever makes patrons of them, they are the unjust!"
Holy Quran 60: 8-9, http://www.tafsir.com

This modern scholar “fantasy†is quickly dispelled by Ibn Kathir’s commentary on these Quranic verses.

"Allah does not forbid you with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes,) means, those who did not have a role in your expulsion. Therefore, Allah does not forbid you from being kind to the disbelievers who do not fight you because of the religion, such as women and weak disbelievers."
Ibn Kathir, http://www.tafsir.com

As you can see, Ibn Kathir’s commentary of these Quranic verses labels followers of non Muslim religions as disbelievers. Additionally, Kathir’s commentary states that the only non Muslims/disbelievers that can be treated justly are “non combatant†women and “weak†disbelievers. So it is clear that the Salaf compliant view of these Quranic verses is that all non Muslims are disbelievers that do not warrant justice unless they are non combatants or inclined towards capitulation or concession based signs of weakness.

*The full publication can be obtained through The JISS Corporation on their company website (http://www.TheJISSCorporation.com). The author can be contacted through this site as well for speaking engagements. This publication is a must have for Christians.


In the Qur'an 22:39-40
Sanction (to fight) is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged; and Allah is indeed Able to give them victory; (39) Those who have been driven from their homes unjustly only because they said: Our Lord is Allah - For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty - (40)
I know that God=Allah Loves Christians and Jews and Muslims all. He don't want us to hurt each other but love live in peace!
I am a muslim and i believe in peace, just like the earlier Empires Where Jews, Christians and Muslims got along, We should not go into each others places dis respecting God, B/c We all believe in God =Allah The father... We should love and respect each other. :)
 
Re: Are you sure?

Sanitarium said:
Sinai Disciple said:
To understand the language of the Qur'an, one must have a comprehensive understanding of Arabic.
It is absolutely essential that you learn Arabic before quoting verses from the Qur'an.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!! This is the BIGGEST FOB OFF that Muslims use against Non-Muslims - insisting that "must" learn Arabic before you DARE to question anything in the Quran. It is COMPLETELY FALSE. Please Christians, do NOT fall for this. In fact, the MAJORITY of Muslims do NOT speak Arabic. Even some Hafiz (those who have memorized the Quran) do not speak Arabic - they have memorized the whole Quran from the transliteration but they do not know what they are reciting.

Again it is NOT 'essential' that you MUST learn Arabic before you can criticize the Quran.[/quote]

Just a side not .... I've met many people who are Buddhist, who have memorized pieces from Sanskrit, but have yet to meet anyone who is fluent in Sanskrit ... !!! Most of them could not read Sanskrit, could not even recite the alphabet (but I could, when I first studied Sanskrit!), bould not write Sanskrit, could not read Sanskrit, and could not even translate accurately for me what they were reciting. They could only tell me what the whole of some prayer meant.

I made several serious attempts to learn Sanskrit, and tried to find someone, anyone, who I could meet with to help me study Sanskrit. I could not find even one person, either when living in Oregon, Washington state, or California.

Now, returning to the OP ..... I would agree that it is not necessary to be fluent in Arabic, in order to read the Koran, and understand the Koran.
 
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