What "WORKS" are required of us to enter heaven?

[Fembot]

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ~James 2:24

Well, this may be an old question for some of you. I was just wondering what you all think the works are?

I use to think that being loving to others would suffice. But now I am starting to believe we are all here to take a major risk in making the world a better place. Must we devote our lives to helping others in order to please God?
I don't believe that attending church once a week, singing in the choir and being "nice" to everyone is the key. Yet, I'm not so sure if their is Christian bucket list of works that must be done either. Interested in hearing your personal experiences....

 

[handy]

Immediately what comes to my mind here is Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Several keys here: One, is that the the works in of themselves are not what saves. I think of "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation...the old things have passed away, behold new things have come." (2 Corinthians 5:17) We are saved when we become that "new creation" that do the good works God has prepared for us to do.
Which brings me to the second key, that we are created to do good works...which is why if someone just says, "I have faith" but doesn't do any good works...well that faith is a bit suspect. If we are not walking in the good works that God prepared for His new creations...there is reason to suspect if we have a new life in Christ in the first place.

But, what if we do truly desire to walk in those good works...what are they? I agree, it's not just being "nice" or "loving" towards others, rather that being nice and loving is a starting point. I think we are all called upon to do what Micah 6:8 tells us: "He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?"

Then, I think as we walk in these things, which could be called the "little things" or things that all Christians should be doing...as we grow in them, God will call upon us to do greater things for Him and more specific things. Some might be called upon to go into a mission field, someone might be called upon to love one very grumpy person sacrificially, someone might be called to form a food bank in a neighborhood...the possibilities of what specific ministries God might call one to be a part of is endless, but one needs to be open to doing them.

 

[AKJVReader]

Are We Justified by Faith and Works?

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." —James 2:24

No! Many people misunderstand the words of James the Apostle because they don't know their Bible well. I don't think I've received even one letter of debate from a Catholic who didn't bring up the words of James, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). James goes on to say in verse 24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." At first glance, it sure does seem like the Bible is requiring works for salvation; BUT, as you will see, nothing could be further from the TRUTH! Carefully notice James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" This event took place in Genesis 22:8-10. Now notice Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness." The event which took place in Genesis 15:6 was different from the event which took place in Genesis 22:8-10. We see in the New Testament that Paul spoke of the ROOT of Abraham's faith; BUT, James spoke of the FRUIT of Abraham's faith. We read in Romans 4:3, "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." This occurred in Genesis 15:6, which is when Abraham was born again. Paul said in Romans 5:1, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Paul doesn't mention works. Romans 4:5 declares, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Yet, James declares in James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" This event took place years later, when Isaac had grown at least old enough to speak clearly to his father (Genesis 22:7). James is simply saying that if a person is genuinely saved by faith, then there should be some FRUIT (good works) in that person's life to show it. BUT, James was NOT teaching that works are necessary to be saved--they aren't! Abraham was saved by faith ALONE! Titus 3:5 clearly states, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us..."
Also, notice carefully James' words, "...shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). With God we are justified by FAITH; BUT with men we are justified by WORKS. The reason is simply because mankind cannot see out heart; but God can. We read in 1st Samuel 16:7, "...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." James said, "shew me" your faith and I'll "shew you" my faith. Every believer possessing the Holy Spirit of God should be a new creature in the Lord, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." This is what James was looking for.
So don't let any Catholic fool you into believing that you must have good works to go to Heaven, you don't. Looking at the Old Testament by itself, I would never have any reason to think that Lot was a Christian. Yet, we read in 2nd Peter 2:6-7, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked." Did you read that ... "just Lot"? James was simply teaching that there should be some good works in a Christian's life to back up his testimony. However, this doesn't mean conclusively that a professed Christian without any good works is not saved. We certainly have a right to question their salvation; BUT, we cannot say for certain because we cannot see their heart. King David killed an innocent man (Uriah) to hide an unwanted pregnancy from an affair with the man's wife (Bathsheba). Would you have thought David was a Christian at that moment? Of course not! But David was a Christian, who had sinned horribly.
The Book of James should be a challenge to every believer to "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16). And the Book of Romans should be a challenge to every believer to be aggressive in winning lost souls to Christ, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth..." Most importantly is that we NOT confuse the ROOT of our faith, with the FRUIT of our faith--because ADDING works to faith is a sure road to Hell.


"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." —Romans 4:5


From:
jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's%20Corner/Doctrines/faith_and_works.htm

 

[beardedad]

None

 

[Sparkey]

Let's add to the words of James something I like to think of as Peter's Recipie to Cure Blindness:

(2Pe 1:5-11 KJV) - "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

• To Faith add: Virtue. A virtuous course of thought, feeling and action.
• To Virtue add: Knowledge. Knowledge signifies in general intelligence, understanding, especially things lawful and unlawful for Christians: moral wisdom, such as is seen in right living.
• To Knowledge add: Temperance. Self-control (the virtue of one who masters his desires and passions, esp. his sensual appetites).
• To Temperance add: Patience. Steadfastness, constancy, endurance a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance.
• To Patience add: Godliness. Piety towards God, godliness reverence, respect.
• To Godliness add: Kindness. The love which Christians cherish for each other as brethren.
• and to Brotherly Kindness: add Chairity (agape) --> Affection, good will, love, benevolence, brotherly love.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

This is the kind of faith (belief and trust in God) that is not idle but active. James states bluntly that faith apart from works is dead. Peter 2nds that thought with his statements that we need give all dilligence to make our calling and election sure. In the end what will it be?

"I have done nothing save that which was given to me to do."

So, yeah -- you can do things that help "save" the world and perform "good works," can volunteer for the Peace Corps even or go so far as to sacrifice your very life for the good of others -- and maybe could even win a Nobel prize for your efforts, but while you're on the course that seems good to you (no matter what it is), remember to look for those hidden moments. The ones that matter. Where all you do is something very insignificant like caring for somebody from your heart and letting them know that they matter. That's the stuff of heaven. But Fembot? I think you already know.

What does it mean to have your steps ordered by God? It means that no matter the course there will be opportunities to add to your faith and demonstrate your new heart in truth. Keep seeking, keep asking and keep knocking while knowing that we are here for a very short time.

~Sparrow

PS. It's good to hear from you. Stop back more often, please.

 

[Webb]

Any thing God tells us to do is not a work of human righteousness but a work of God. That simple. Even faith or belief is a work. John 6:29; "this is the work of God, that ye believe". Belief is a work of God, not a work of man, yet I THE MAN must DO the believing not God.

God bless

 

[francisdesales]

No! Many people misunderstand the words of James the Apostle because they don't know their Bible well.

To include AKJVreader...

Let me cite the "article" you use as "proof" of your point of view...

"... King David killed an innocent man (Uriah) to hide an unwanted pregnancy from an affair with the man's wife (Bathsheba). Would you have thought David was a Christian at that moment? Of course not! But David was a Christian, who had sinned horribly..."

:o

We are supposed to listen to this guy - who makes such a blunder??? And apparently you post it without even realizing what it says...

 

[Former Christian]

This thread should have been called “What works are required of us†without the additional “to enter heavenâ€. Now this thread is just going to become a debate on the controversy between Justification by faith and works and Justification by faith alone. And unless I’m mistaken, that wasn’t the original intent of the one who started this thread.

FC

 

[dadof10]

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ~James 2:24

Well, this may be an old question for some of you. I was just wondering what you all think the works are?

I use to think that being loving to others would suffice. But now I am starting to believe we are all here to take a major risk in making the world a better place. Must we devote our lives to helping others in order to please God?
I don't believe that attending church once a week, singing in the choir and being "nice" to everyone is the key. Yet, I'm not so sure if their is Christian bucket list of works that must be done either. Interested in hearing your personal experiences....

I think God wants it all. All our thoughts and actions. The verse you quote goes on to give three examples of works that affect salvation. Like C.S. Lewis wrote somewhere, we are either becoming Angels or Devils with every decision we make in our lives. I don't think you need to change the world or do heroic works (like Abraham or Rahab) to please God, just change yourself.

 

[dadof10]

This thread should have been called “What works are required of us†without the additional “to enter heavenâ€. Now this thread is just going to become a debate on the controversy between Justification by faith and works and Justification by faith alone. And unless I’m mistaken, that wasn’t the original intent of the one who started this thread.

FC

 

[dadof10]

I don't think I've received even one letter of debate from a Catholic who didn't bring up the words of James, "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18).

Are we supposed to ignore verses of Scripture that OBVIOUSLY teach orthodox Christian doctrine? I refer you here if you would like to discuss it further...

http://www.christianforums.net/f17/faith-works-james-2-again-36003/

 

[dadof10]

Immediately what comes to my mind here is Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Several keys here: One, is that the the works in of themselves are not what saves. I think of "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation...the old things have passed away, behold new things have come." (2 Corinthians 5:17) We are saved when we become that "new creation" that do the good works God has prepared for us to do.
Which brings me to the second key, that we are created to do good works...which is why if someone just says, "I have faith" but doesn't do any good works...well that faith is a bit suspect. If we are not walking in the good works that God prepared for His new creations...there is reason to suspect if we have a new life in Christ in the first place.

But, what if we do truly desire to walk in those good works...what are they? I agree, it's not just being "nice" or "loving" towards others, rather that being nice and loving is a starting point. I think we are all called upon to do what Micah 6:8 tells us: "He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?"

Then, I think as we walk in these things, which could be called the "little things" or things that all Christians should be doing...as we grow in them, God will call upon us to do greater things for Him and more specific things. Some might be called upon to go into a mission field, someone might be called upon to love one very grumpy person sacrificially, someone might be called to form a food bank in a neighborhood...the possibilities of what specific ministries God might call one to be a part of is endless, but one needs to be open to doing them.

Dora, I think the next verse describes what Paul means by "works" in verse 9.

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called the uncircumcision by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands -- 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. (Ephesians (RSV) 2)

Paul is speaking specifically of works of the Law, not the good deeds done in faith spoken of by James.

 

[Drew]

Immediately what comes to my mind here is Ephesians 2:8-10:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

This is, I suggest one of the most misunderstood texts in the Scriptures.

The author is not denying the salvific power of good works, he is instead denying the salvific power of the works of the Law of Moses. This is not a "good works" argument at all, it is rather an argument against national privilege - the author is making the case that salvation is not limited to Jews, that is, those who do the works of the Law of Moses.

A point of method: It simply will not do to declare up front that Paul is talking about good works here – that begs the question. No, the fair-minded reader needs to ask which of the following views makes more sense given both the local context and the broader context of the whole letter:

1. The salvific power of doing good works is being denied;

2. The salvific power of doing the works of the Law of Moses is being denied.

Explanation 2 is the one that makes sense in light of what Paul goes on to say in verse 11 and following as well as what he says in Romans 3, where he makes it clear that, in respect to good works, the Jew and the Gentile are in the same boat.

Proceeding to an examination of Ephesians 2:11 and following, Paul uses the "therefore" to show us that he is now going to fill out the implications of his denial of salvation by “works”

Therefore remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

Paul is clearly now talking about the Jew-Gentile divide, and how the actions of Jesus have brought Jew and Gentile together. Doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, is what demarcates Jew from Gentile in terms of covenant membership and shuts the Gentile out of citizenship in Israel. Paul continues:

14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations

How much more clear could Paul be? What has divided the Jew from the Gentile and been the barrier? Good works? Obviously not, both Jew and Gentile are on “the same side” of any good works barrier (first 20 or so verses of Romans 3). It is doing the works of Law of Moses, of course, that is the very thing that the Jew might otherwise boast in and which is now being declared to not be salvific.

 

[Drew]

Paul is speaking specifically of works of the Law, not the good deeds done in faith spoken of by James.

Exactly - you and I are making the same argument. And, as you point out, it is the "therefore" that shows what Paul is really talking about.

Again, if one dives in at the "verse" level, one can make a huge mistake. And in this case, the mistake is to miss the "therefore" paragraph which makes it quite clear that what these "works" that do not save are specifically the works of the Law of Moses.

 

[Drew]

Carefully notice James 2:21, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" This event took place in Genesis 22:8-10. Now notice Genesis 15:6, "And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness." The event which took place in Genesis 15:6 was different from the event which took place in Genesis 22:8-10.

I suggest that this is not a valid argument against the necessity of good works for salvation. Although I find the argument in your post to be a little hard to follow, it seems to be of the following general character:

1. Statements about Abraham being justified by faith occur before any statements about Abraham being justified by "works";

2. Therefore, we can be confident that, despite such statements about justification by good works, Abraham was justified at the point of belief.

There are at least two problems with this:

1. You are expecting the reader to dismiss clear statements about justification by works, effectively asking us to believe that the writer (James) does not know what he is talking about. We need to be wary of such arguments - we need to honour what James actually says and not morph it into something else.

2. You ignore the possibility of a temporal structure to justification, demanding a priori that justification occurs at a single point in time. On that basis, you reason "well, if Abraham was justified at the point of belief, then we are allowed to apply the principle expressed in item (1) - simply dismiss as 'mistakes' any and all statements about justification by works."

However, there is a way to take James (and Paul for that matter - see Romans 2:6-7) seriously when they make statements about justification by good works. And it is to think in terms of this model of justification: When a person places faith in God in the present, that person is given the Holy Spirit who enable that person to produce the good works according to which the person will justified in the future. I politely suggest this a far more exegetically satisfying position than to have to effectively "cut out" certain statements about justification by good works from the Bible.

 

[Drew]

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." —Romans 4:5

Another text which, I suggest, has been entirely misunderstood, at least in the protestant reformed tradition.

Here is the relevant material, and I include stuff from the end of Romans 3 for context – remember, it is not Paul who inserts “chapter breaksâ€:

27Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith (is one. 31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we (establish the Law. 1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 4Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. 5But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, …

A vital point is to note that context clearly shows that the “works†in 4:2 are the works of the Law of Moses. In 3:28, Paul talks about how men are not justified by the works of the Law. It should be clear that this is a reference to the Law of Moses, not to “good works†generally. But even if this were not clear from 3:28, 3:29 seals the deal: Verse 29 is clearly a statement of what would be the case if, in fact, people were justified by “works†– only Jews could be saved, since only Jews have the Law of Moses.

So there is really no doubt – Paul is making an argument that the works of the Law of Moses, not good works in general, do not justify. So why anybody thinks 4:2 is about “good works†is a mystery to me – Paul does not arbitrarily change topics without notice. Besides, material in the middle of chapter 4 supports my position as well – in the entire thread from chapter 3 right through to the middle of chapter 4, Paul is essentially arguing that salvation is not limited to Jews – those who do the works of the Law of Moses. And yes, I am aware that the Law of Moses was not around in Abraham’s time. I am prepared to deal with that objection if need be.

So now we come to the workman. I trust we all understand that this is a metaphor. As such, it cannot be taken literally in all its details – it is a comparison, like all metaphors. Paul has just finished arguing that Abraham, like any other Jew, cannot claim that God “owes†justification to the Jew, and only the Jew, in virtue of the cultural marker of the Law of Moses. The issue to this point is not “does someone who does good works have a claim on Godâ€, it is “does the Jew – the one who is under the Law of Moses – have a claim on Godâ€.

The workman expects to be paid because he has done something. Fine. What is the parallel to Abraham? The parallel is that Abraham might think he has claim on justification because of his obedience to the Law of Moses in its specific role of marking out the Jew as a member of God’s family to the exclusion of the Gentile, not because he has done “good worksâ€. The fact that Paul uses a metaphor where the “basis for claim†is work does not mean that Paul is arguing against justification by works.

 

[Elijah674]

God is mankind's CREATOR.
All will be blotted out of existence who as babes, stay in their free choice of mature 'opposing of the Godhead', and these carnal person's do mature into total rebellion as Prophesed! (romes bunch include the broadway ones, + her endtime daughters who come back to their full/maturity of apostasy!)

Nah. 1:9 finds these not safe to save, and Obad. 1:16 finds them GONE momentarily. (God's time!)

And it is not or was not any one or just two time sin's that CLOSED THE DOOR OF THESE ONE'S PROBATION. But the continued on of Presumptively SINNING AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST! (see Psalms 19:13 GREAT TRANSGRESSION) Gen. 6:3 or Matt. 25:10's Closed DOOR of Probation! Or the now seen DESOLATE HOUSE of Christ. Matt. 23:38


And ALL of the above have as denominations gone way, way, way past the 120 years of Striving of the Holy Ghost to the point of [NO RETURN!] That is why the few rarely found there still will OBEY Rev. 18:4.


And these others??
NOTHING IT SEEM'S MOVES THEM with their now strong working DESIRE of Gen. 4:6. (but satan's workers they are.. it documents!) And as then, satan has them all of today, with very little difference (Eccl. 3:15) which find's their satanic forced 666 stuff used upon only a 'small REMNANT few. (Rev. 12:17)


We have NO KING BUT CAESAR is their power of force, and as Cain was a killer, so will ALL of these be! The USA Suspreme Court is already set up to do this needed Christ/less work! And Rom. 13 will be wore out by these Caesar over Christ CHOOSING ones!


And 'REQUIRED WORKS'? It will not be the ones executing Abel!


--Elijah

 

[n2thelight]

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. ~James 2:24

Well, this may be an old question for some of you. I was just wondering what you all think the works are?

I use to think that being loving to others would suffice. But now I am starting to believe we are all here to take a major risk in making the world a better place. Must we devote our lives to helping others in order to please God?
I don't believe that attending church once a week, singing in the choir and being "nice" to everyone is the key. Yet, I'm not so sure if their is Christian bucket list of works that must be done either. Interested in hearing your personal experiences....

Works are not requried to get in heaven,however they are the only things that you can take with you

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[Fembot]

Thank you all espc Sparrow & Handy. It's not so much the work but the faith behind it and the love we put into it.