What Would It Take to Convince You Other Gods are Real?

[The Light]

For a while now I have been working with a young man in college who is going through some spiritual trials and uncertainty. He doesn't have much of a background in faith and we hooked up a while ago when I discovered that he could really use a listening ear. For a couple months he would come to Wednesday Bible study with me and was really taking in the Word. Over the Holidays during the break, it's apparent that something or someone happenned to steal the zeal he was building only months ago. When I talk to him now he's ultra critical and has become convinced that the Christian faith is what he calls a "stolen religion" that has been used for centuries to hide the truth about his African ancestors that had a "true religion." He constantly speaks about things like the Pineal gland, Melanin, metaphysics, and other things that are just plain weird to me. I made the mistake of tellling him to flee those pagan ideas and he replied that it is Christianity that is in fact pagan and based on Greek and European lies.

His latest arguement has me at a loss for how to respond. I try to remind him that God, the God we were walking with last year, still loves him, but he is all but convinced that that is not the case. When I tell him that God is real and this whole spirituality kick he's on is nothing without God backing it he laughs it off and responds by saying that "my God" is no more than a mental contruct created by those with a "slave master" mentality who intend to keep me from seeing the god within myself. His challege to me hunges on his current stance that all gods are but metaphorical concepts that are not real. He says that I should question my faith in God more and apply a level of scrutiny to it the way I would if someone was trying to convinvce me that Horus, Ahura Mazda, or Brahma were real. He asked me what it would take for me to believe that any of those gods were real and I ahd no answer for him. So of course his response was why do I believe in "my" god if there's nothing that I could think of that would convince me of another god's existence.

All that said, these conversations got me to thinking about what it would take to convince me that ANY god was real if I never was exposed to any faith prior. Knowing that as a Christian the scripture commands that I be prepared to give an answer for the faith that is in me; I feel I must be able to answer this in a way that is logical and gives glory to God. I'm struggling with this on my own, so I ask the forum to assist me in answering the question of what it would take for you to develop faith in a new god? (remember, Jesus is new to many an unbeliever so this exerice is one that I hope can help "sharpen swords" for those who are witnessing to others.)

 

[WIP]

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. We can't convince anyone that God exists for we ourselves can only believe by the power of the Holy Spirit. All we can do is present the gospel. God does the rest.

 

[Deborah13]

I agree with WIP about witnessing.

If I were asked how do I know I serve the one true God my answer would be that I have been convinced in my heart and in mind. Who convinced me? The Holy Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

First one has to understand what pure religion is for themselves before they can explain it to others. This is what James says it is.
James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Our relationship with Jesus is a personal one as we have all come to Him in one way or another to become that Spiritually born-again child of the most high God as we are regenerated by His Holy Spirit. Those who do not know the word of God can not understand that of the love of God. I find when I have an opportunity to witness Christ to others I give them my testimony of how I came into a relationship with Him. Like WIP said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can not make it drink. All you can do is allow the light of Christ shine through you and before you speak to your friend pray first and ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words to speak to his heart and keep him in prayer that his eyes will be opened to truth.

 

[The Light]

All that said, these conversations got me to thinking about what it would take to convince me that ANY god was real if I never was exposed to any faith prior. Knowing that as a Christian the scripture commands that I be prepared to give an answer for the faith that is in me; I feel I must be able to answer this in a way that is logical and gives glory to God. I'm struggling with this on my own, so I ask the forum to assist me in answering the question of what it would take for you to develop faith in a new god? (remember, Jesus is new to many an unbeliever so this exerice is one that I hope can help "sharpen swords" for those who are witnessing to others.)

As I look at the responses and pray in my heart the answer that is flashing in my mind is that in order to gain any credible belief in deity, one would need that deity to supernaturally and personally reveal itself to the seeker. In other words, as proclaimer of the gospel, we should understand where our work stops and God's work takes over and accept the reality that God will not win all souls!

 

[Deborah13]

I think that once someone has been convinced by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner in need of a Savior AND the righteousness of Christ the Savior, if they were to reject that belief they would have no where to turn except maybe agnostic or atheist belief.
If they say they were wrong and try to accept another god how would they know this time they were right? I don't think they could know.

On the other hand the person who believes in some other way or god, they have never been convinced of the Savior and His righteousness. So if they will seek God and be convinced by the Holy Spirit, they will know the difference.

 

[The Light]

I think that once someone has been convinced by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner in need of a Savior AND the righteousness of Christ the Savior, if they were to reject that belief they would have no where to turn except maybe agnostic or atheist belief.
If they say they were wrong and try to accept another god how would they know this time they were right? I don't think they could know.

That's what's so perplexing about my friend. He initially seemed to accept the Lord, and was jealously excited (as most new believers are). In some ways he reminds me of the parable of the sower where the seed was sown among the thorns.
He is still very "spiritual", but now seems convinced that the faith he and I shared is misplaced. He's really into metaphysics and ancient Eygpt (he calls it Kemet). He seems to believe he has unlooked a "3rd eye" that enables him to see things that others who haven't been gifted with this spiritual power can't see or understand.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Has anyone following other religions ever reported having a personal relationship with their god? As in, actually knew him on a personal level, and conversed with him? I believe in God largely because I have had a personal relationship with Him. That's the biggest thing that has kept me in the faith, the biggest "proof" to me, more convincing than the best apologetics argument.

 

[Deborah13]

That's what's so perplexing about my friend. He initially seemed to accept the Lord, and was jealously excited (as most new believers are). In some ways he reminds me of the parable of the sower where the seed was sown among the thorns.
He is still very "spiritual", but now seems convinced that the faith he and I shared is misplaced. He's really into metaphysics and ancient Eygpt (he calls it Kemet). He seems to believe he has unlooked a "3rd eye" that enables him to see things that others who haven't been gifted with this spiritual power can't see or understand.

I try never to put people in categories because I believe truly only God knows those things. As far as you witnessing to him it is as clear as WIP has said. He has received the message all you can do is pray for him and be ready to receive him back when/if he comes again to sincerely seek the Lord.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[Butch5]

For a while now I have been working with a young man in college who is going through some spiritual trials and uncertainty. He doesn't have much of a background in faith and we hooked up a while ago when I discovered that he could really use a listening ear. For a couple months he would come to Wednesday Bible study with me and was really taking in the Word. Over the Holidays during the break, it's apparent that something or someone happenned to steal the zeal he was building only months ago. When I talk to him now he's ultra critical and has become convinced that the Christian faith is what he calls a "stolen religion" that has been used for centuries to hide the truth about his African ancestors that had a "true religion." He constantly speaks about things like the Pineal gland, Melanin, metaphysics, and other things that are just plain weird to me. I made the mistake of tellling him to flee those pagan ideas and he replied that it is Christianity that is in fact pagan and based on Greek and European lies.

His latest arguement has me at a loss for how to respond. I try to remind him that God, the God we were walking with last year, still loves him, but he is all but convinced that that is not the case. When I tell him that God is real and this whole spirituality kick he's on is nothing without God backing it he laughs it off and responds by saying that "my God" is no more than a mental contruct created by those with a "slave master" mentality who intend to keep me from seeing the god within myself. His challege to me hunges on his current stance that all gods are but metaphorical concepts that are not real. He says that I should question my faith in God more and apply a level of scrutiny to it the way I would if someone was trying to convinvce me that Horus, Ahura Mazda, or Brahma were real. He asked me what it would take for me to believe that any of those gods were real and I ahd no answer for him. So of course his response was why do I believe in "my" god if there's nothing that I could think of that would convince me of another god's existence.

All that said, these conversations got me to thinking about what it would take to convince me that ANY god was real if I never was exposed to any faith prior. Knowing that as a Christian the scripture commands that I be prepared to give an answer for the faith that is in me; I feel I must be able to answer this in a way that is logical and gives glory to God. I'm struggling with this on my own, so I ask the forum to assist me in answering the question of what it would take for you to develop faith in a new god? (remember, Jesus is new to many an unbeliever so this exerice is one that I hope can help "sharpen swords" for those who are witnessing to others.)

Hi The Light,

I think the answer you're looking for is Prophecy. No man can tell the future that requires one who is supernatural. The God of the Bible has done that. If you take your friend to the Scriptures and show the prophecies that have been fulfilled it will prove that the God of the Bible is true. There are prophecies that can be verified outside of the Bible so the Bible is not the only source of information. Also the Dead See Scrolls can be used as proof. There was found among the scrolls a copy of the book of Isaiah, it's called the Great Isaiah scroll and it has been dated to a time prior to Christ. This is proof that the book was written before Christ came. There are quite a few prophecies in the book of Isaiah that Christ fulfilled, these are proof that the God of the Bible is the true God. Here is a link to an audio that addresses this issue and gives some examples, scroll down to the audio titled, "introduction"

http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Revelation.html

 

[Edward]

Listen to the girls in this thread brother. They speak the truth. The way it works is that first, one trust in and puts his faith in God, and then and only then will the Holy Spirit come and give reveal Himself and give the revelation of understanding. It is a personal relationship between you and God. If you seek God, you WILL find Him, for He WILL reveal Himself to you. Your proof will be on a personal level, and not something which can be taken into a laboratory and tested.

The best thing that you can you do for your friend, is to say that you have no proof per se, but can only testify to what the Lord has done for you in your life.Personal experience trumps doctrine every single time. It is a choice to receive the Lord into ones heart and life. Then, the secrets of the Lord will be progressively revealed. It's like a security clearance almost. Buck privates do not get to be privy to the Gub'mints top secret things, but have to work their way up.

 

[Vaccine]

His challege to me hinges on his current stance that all gods are but metaphorical concepts that are not real. He says that I should question my faith in God more and apply a level of scrutiny to it the way I would if someone was trying to convinvce me that Horus, Ahura Mazda, or Brahma were real. He asked me what it would take for me to believe that any of those gods were real and I ahd no answer for him. So of course his response was why do I believe in "my" god if there's nothing that I could think of that would convince me of another god's existence.

I think God welcome's a certain level of scrutiny, otherwise why would he even bother with prophecy? I think there is a difference between putting God to the test, which we shouldn't do, and God appealing to our minds as well as our hearts. Blind faith is just closing our eyes and pretending it's real, that's what is required of gods like Horus or Odin. I think Jesus wants to be the object of our faith, He wants our eyes open and fixed on him. Look how He responds to Thomas:
"Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." 1 John 20:27

No condemnation. No forsaking. Jesus actually invites an earnest seeker to examine him and stop doubting. Not as a test but out of love.

"Love suffereth long, and is kind; love envieth not; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not its own, is not provoked, taketh not account of evil;
6 rejoiceth not in unrighteousness, but rejoiceth with the truth;"

Jesus is truth, give 'em Jesus. He is real.
In the case of your friend though, there is a lot of misinformation being perpetuated in pop culture that needs to be addressed. As far as ancient texts are concerned scholars use some guidelines to determine their credibility:
1) The number of original/ancient copies of original documents
2) The time elapsed between the actual events and when they were first written down
3) Any external writings relating to the document’s authenticity and historicity.

Based on those the bible is far and above any other texts. This isn't as well known as it should be but based on those criteria most other gods are just myths. Most pop culture claims that Christianity is a copycat of such religions as mithraism or Horus don't stand up to scrutiny. Mithraism started after Jesus, had something like 100 followers, and most of that is based on word of mouth. It's more reasonable to think it was the copycat of Christianity. It wasn't until a few centuries after it began anything was written down about Mithraism, which is typically classifies it as 'mythology', even if people revived it recently. The Egyptian 'book of the dead' is not a single narrative about Horus but a miscellaneous collection of spells and different stories about Horus. Most the claims of a parallel are exaggerated, Devil tries to kill Horus in the desert= Jesus tempted in desert, I won't even mention this crazy one (but definitely not a virgin) = virgin birth, Horus stands with arms extended = crucifixion. There are more but anyone can shoehorn parallels into the bible if they try hard enough. I hope your friend will keep seeking with an open mind and open heart.

 

[chessman]

My potential input for your friend to consider (for what it’s worth):

He constantly speaks about things like the Pineal gland, Melanin, metaphysics, and other things that are just plain weird to me.

I’ve not heard of these (except metaphysics of course which simply means beyond/outside of physics) but my suggestion would be that the next time something like “Pineal Gland or Melanin” is mentioned; ask him “What makes you think those ideas are true?” or “What evidence do you have that religion’s teaching is true?” and just see what happens from there. Then, as some of the other posters above have pointed out, you could compare his evidences to the well documented evidences with the God of the Bible and His Word through a few obviously fulfilled prophecies and the concordance of the Bible both internally (book-to-book) and externally (science, history, archeology, secular historians, etc.). I’d shy away from overwhelming him with too many of the types/shadows prophecies and stick with Isaiah’s prophecies about Christ or Daniels’ prophecies about future kingdoms (like Rome/Greece, etc.). I kind of like the moral argument since I assume he has moral values and it forms a basis from which to compare his morals to the morals of a rock, plants, animals, other cultures', etc. See if he thinks his moral values are transcendent/objective moral values (justified as true without regard to himself) and if so, what makes them objective? How are they truly transcendent given that his 'god' is simply is a concept within his brain.

I’d shy away from a previously suggested response such as: “... trust in and puts his faith in God, and then and only then will the Holy Spirit come and give reveal Himself and give the revelation of understanding.”

Maybe you can see some of the problems with this type of response already. If your friend is already putting his trust in a wrong ‘god’ (which I gather from your OP write up of the situation), then telling him to trust a ‘spirit/god’ that’s working on him (which is the only thing he knows at the moment) is NOT going to be helpful. He may very well get a spiritual revelation that’s not Godly. Plus, it lends credence to his false idea that a Christian doesn’t really have any other good evidences for the true God revealed to us (and him if he’d give it a chance) within the Bible, other than our feelings.

Being “always ready to make a defense to anyone who asks you for an accounting concerning the hope that is in you…” from Peter’s context is NOT about telling them to just believe within yourself. It’s about a “defense” and “accounting” more external to him than “trust in his faith in God”. At the moment, he doesn’t have faith in God, evidently, so to put any trust in himself is going in the wrong direction. That’s the point/hindrance of his struggles (his lack of truth faith), not the “defense”.

A good “defense” would be as mentioned previously; 1) fulfilled prophecy, 2) the fact that the Bible came pre-1 A.D. yet spoke of Jesus, 3) consistency of the Bible, 4) the fact that Jesus and all the Apostles were Jews yet thought Jesus died and rose from the grave and radically became Christians, etc.

Of course none of this means you/I do not actually have the Holy Spirit as our hope. I'm not sayingg that's not true. However, I’m just saying that’s not really going to be helpful to your friend at the moment.

I made the mistake of tellling him to flee those pagan ideas and he replied that it is Christianity that is in fact pagan and based on Greek and European lies.

I don’t think your reply was a mistake. He does need to flee pagan ideas. Why? Because there is zero evidence that Pagan ideas are true. You could point this out to him. As for his response, “Christianity is in fact pagan and based on Greek and European lies.” Umm, Judeo-Christian teachings (and again those that prophesied of God’s coming redemption, Jesus) came WAY before Greece or Europe were ever thought of as countries/cultures. Maybe mentioning Noah’s being saved by the Ark and tying it in to how the Ark foreshadowed God’s plan of salvation for all mankind could be a helpful response. Our how Abram came out of a Pagan culture into worshiping the one true God (way before Greece/Europe) and how God changed his name (the one that culture gave him) to Abraham and made him promises that were fulfilled (Israel and the Jesus being Abraham’s descendant). But the main point that I wouldn’t let go uncountered because it's obviously fallacious to the core, is The Jewish culture and worship of God (which Christianity completes) began WAY before Greece/Europe.

Don’t let him off thinking that the idea that Christianity is a new idea or a corruption of other pre-existing religions is true.

he laughs it off and responds by saying that "my God" is no more than a mental contruct created by those with a "slave master" mentality who intend to keep me from seeing the god within myself.

Christians worship the God that created the universe (space/time and matter/energy) that was created before there ever was any humans (to have a metaphorical 'god' exist within them). Again, he makes an obviously fallacious argument by saying; ‘god’ exists within him. Where was this ‘god’ living prior to your friend’s conception/birth? Where was this ‘god’ prior to the first human? And if he says nowhere and thinks all gods are simply human constructs within the mind, then he's an atheist and has no business arguing for his 'god' above/beyound anybody else's human construct. That's one of the things that seperates Judeo-Christian God from all others.

all gods are but metaphorical concepts that are not real.

Umm, just exactly where did the universe come from? Hopefully he does realize there was a beginning for all space/time matter/energy as recorded in the God of the Bible.

He asked me what it would take for me to believe that any of those gods [Horus, Ahura Mazda, or Brahma] were real and I ahd no answer for him.

Tell him a hit of acid might do the trick
But seriously, if Horus is the creator of the universe, then what's up with Brahma also being the creator? They cannot all be true.
But some people really don't care that their god is not true, I suppose. So there may not be any progress that can be made in every case.

He says that I should question my faith in God more and apply a level of scrutiny to it ...

Okay. Good point. Have you? Have you found your faith in God ready to provide a defense and an accounting for why you believe it to be true? I'm not suggesting you haven't (obviously you're asking others here and that's good) and I'm not suggesting that I or other have ALL the answers to every objection that an atheist or mystic might tose out. But, there are some basic questions like your friend has asked, that we indeed should be ready to argue against and give them a prepared "defense"/"account" via Chrisitianity's evidences.

You could ask him to do the same and provide some (at least one or two) externally verifiable accountings and defenses for his ‘god’ that merely “metaphorically exists within him”. Which, BTW, is an oxymoron. Metaphors don’t “exist” anywhere. Something is metaphorical when you use it (a figure of speech) to stand for, or symbolize, another thing.

Is he an atheist? Or is he a mystic/humanist?

 

[The Light]

Thanks for the response guys. I appreciate the input. What I'd like to do is take the advice given and show how the Bible prophetically speaks in a way that validates it as truly special. Are there some specific prophecies that anyone would suggest I mention that are definitive and pretty specific in what is proclaimed, (he's busted my chops about Isaiah 7:14 and how he believes it is evidence for New Testament writers revisionism, so I need something very convincing)?


chessman
I honestly do not know what to classify him as. He's spiritual, but not a believer in any god that I know of. He does talk about applying the principles of Ma'at, however.

 

[By Grace]

Thanks for the response guys. I appreciate the input. What I'd like to do is take the advice given and show how the Bible prophetically speaks in a way that validates it as truly special. Are there some specific prophecies that anyone would suggest I mention that are definitive and pretty specific in what is proclaimed, (he's busted my chops about Isaiah 7:14 and how he believes it is evidence for New Testament writers revisionism, so I need something very convincing)?



I honestly do not know what to classify him as. He's spiritual, but not a believer in any god that I know of. He does talk about applying the principles of Ma'at, however.

I do not play the game of "hypotheticals" because they are merely a ruse to give absurd heresies a false legitimacy. Unless you are skilled in ferreting that sort of stuff, don't go there. the best and simplest response is "I do not speculate about hypotheticals." If asked a reason, you can reply that "I deal with things that are real, and what you say is not real" Your final apologetic is the First Commandmant and the "Shemah" of Deuteronomy 6:4-6

As for the prophecies, I recommend that you use Psalm 22, but preface it with a discussion about probability, and ask him to write down "I will believe the Bible is true if it can be shown that the odds of an event happening is one million (or whatever) to one."

then explain that there are only three possible outcomes for a prophecy:
1) it has not yet been fulfilled because it is a Millennial event, such as in Revelation.
2) it has not been fulfilled because the time frame or something else intervened, or else it happened exactly as is said in plain language in Scriptures.
3) it has been fulfilled exactly like Scriptures say it would happen, or else it is not up to God's standards.

Then have him read who wrote Psalm 22 "a Psalm of David"He can research the life of David on wikipedia to see his life span. It is important to establish that he wrote this c 950 BC, or about 1000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, and about 850 years before the Romans came up with crucifixion as a form of capital punishment.. Then with your help, have his count the prophecies and the verses down. Depending on your version there are 18 or so distinct prophecies of David fulfilled by Jesus before and during His crucifixion.

After getting that, then go to the "flipping coins" paragraph to explain that for every coin toss, there are only two possible outcomes: Head or Tails.

Look at the illustration below. It shows in brief form all the possible outcomes of a random coin toss of two, three and four coins. The HH, HHH and HHHH represent the prophecy being fulfilled, exactly in four consecutive tosses. The H represents a hit, and T represents a miss. Anything less than solid H does not fit the biblical standard.
2 ..... 3 .... 4 different coins
HH HHH HHHH TTTT

HT HHT HHHT TTTH

TH HTH HHTH TTHT

TT HTT HHTT TTHH

00 THH HTHH THTT

00 TTT HTHT THTH

00 TTH HTTT THHH

00 THH HTTH THHT

(The 00 are for place holders in the chart for formatting purposes)

If you are into mathematics, the formula for this is 2N. N is the number of coins, or variables and it represents the number of times that 2 is multiplied by itself. Thus you end up with one chance of 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, and 1024 if the Bible limited itself to only 10 prophecies, and EVERY ONE of them has to be correct. If there were only 20 prophecies, there is only 1 chance in 1,048,576 of getting all Hs. And 2,097,152 for 21 coins. This is the number for 30 coins: 1,073,741,824 more than 1 billion, seventy-three millions.

Someone once determined that there were over 300 prophecies in the OT that made a prophecy about Jesus Christ. Forgetting any other prophecies, the formula for that alone is 2300.

But there is more to this than mere numbers: probability, or the likelihood of any event happening expressed as a percentage. For example, returning to the one coin, there is a probability of 50% of getting a H on one coin toss. And getting a H on one coin does not affect the other coins. Each coin is independent. For two coins, there is only a one in four chance of getting HH, but that does not take into account the probability of the first coin. Each coin’s probability of getting a H must be multiplied by the other’s.

For five coins, the number of tries is 32. Remember 2N in this case is 25 or 32. Therefore the probability of 5 Hs is 1 from 32, or 0.3125, for 6 coins, 1 in 64, or 0.0156, from seven coins, it is 1 in 128, or 0.00781. Simply, divide by 2 to get the probability of more events happening by adding one coin.

Thus, if you look at Psalm 22, for example, and can “only” find 7 fulfilled prophecies, then there is one chance from 256, an eight out of ten thousands probability to get 7 prophecies, and 1 in 512 chance, or 0 .00390, or four chances in 10,000 to get 8 hits.
This is from a book I wrote, so this is the attribution.

If you are going to use that approach, mane sure that you can understand that cold, and that you practice on another adult first.

Remember as an evangelist/apologist, your job may not be to lead him to the sinner's prayer at this time; but may be to place a seed which Holy Spirit can use to gently woo your friend

PM me if you want more data

 

[elijah23]

For a while now I have been working with a young man in college who is going through some spiritual trials and uncertainty. He doesn't have much of a background in faith and we hooked up a while ago when I discovered that he could really use a listening ear. For a couple months he would come to Wednesday Bible study with me and was really taking in the Word. Over the Holidays during the break, it's apparent that something or someone happenned to steal the zeal he was building only months ago. When I talk to him now he's ultra critical and has become convinced that the Christian faith is what he calls a "stolen religion" that has been used for centuries to hide the truth about his African ancestors that had a "true religion." He constantly speaks about things like the Pineal gland, Melanin, metaphysics, and other things that are just plain weird to me. I made the mistake of tellling him to flee those pagan ideas and he replied that it is Christianity that is in fact pagan and based on Greek and European lies.

His latest arguement has me at a loss for how to respond. I try to remind him that God, the God we were walking with last year, still loves him, but he is all but convinced that that is not the case. When I tell him that God is real and this whole spirituality kick he's on is nothing without God backing it he laughs it off and responds by saying that "my God" is no more than a mental contruct created by those with a "slave master" mentality who intend to keep me from seeing the god within myself. His challege to me hunges on his current stance that all gods are but metaphorical concepts that are not real. He says that I should question my faith in God more and apply a level of scrutiny to it the way I would if someone was trying to convinvce me that Horus, Ahura Mazda, or Brahma were real. He asked me what it would take for me to believe that any of those gods were real and I ahd no answer for him. So of course his response was why do I believe in "my" god if there's nothing that I could think of that would convince me of another god's existence.

All that said, these conversations got me to thinking about what it would take to convince me that ANY god was real if I never was exposed to any faith prior. Knowing that as a Christian the scripture commands that I be prepared to give an answer for the faith that is in me; I feel I must be able to answer this in a way that is logical and gives glory to God. I'm struggling with this on my own, so I ask the forum to assist me in answering the question of what it would take for you to develop faith in a new god? (remember, Jesus is new to many an unbeliever so this exerice is one that I hope can help "sharpen swords" for those who are witnessing to others.)

Once you come to know the Lord, you understand he is the one God.

 

[Kevin]

There is proof that the Holy Bible is God's word (in other words that God is.)

Here are a few remarkable things in the Bible that are too amazing to be coincidence:

1. In Genesis 2:21-23 the Bible records God putting Adam to sleep, cutting out a rib, and from it making a woman. So God performed the first surgery with anesthesia. But what's almost unbelievable is that it records of the first cloning to ever take place. This record was considered to an impossible fairy tale, and only in modern times do we know that it's possible. Coincidence? How about the fact that there is one and only one bone in the body that will grow back (if removed properly) and that bone happens to be a rib. Strange huh? What's even more is that man's chromosome is XY and a woman's is XX; meaning you can clone a woman from a man but not a man from a woman (the Bible was right again.)

2. Luke 17:30-34 The Lord Jesus foretells of his return and says, "in that day..." and then speaking of the same event he says, "in that night..." How could Jesus return in the day and the night? Because the earth is round, day on one side and night on the other (the Bible records that long before man figured it out.) Isaiah 40:22 also speaks of "the circle of the earth".

3. Revelation 13:16-18 foretells of a future time when men will only be able to buy or sell goods three ways: using a "mark" implanted in the hand or forehead, using the name of the beast (anti-christ), or by using the number of his name (666). Anyone not using these means will be locked out of the monetary system. Again, this was thought to be a fairy tale and was impossible until our times. The implant chip? Look up DIGITAL ANGEL, VERICHIP, DIGITAL ANGEL, or any number of contenders looking to be the mark of the beast. What's the name of the beast? All currency has the name of the person pictured on the bill. But how can someone buy or sell using the number of the beast (666)? Well, I'm a little frightened to say that we do that already right here on the internet. Hebrew letters have number values and the Hebrew equivalent for W has a number value of 6. In other words WWW=666. So when we use the World Wide Web are we using the number of the beast? Amazing what can be found in the Bible. How could an uninspired book record such things?

There are many more simple, straightforward proofs that there is a God and that he inspired men to write the Bible, but three is a good number to give you.

But let me say something to every believer reading this: Don't waste your precious time giving the gospel and the truth over and over to the same people. Even Paul only reasoned with the Jews for three sabbath days and when they rejected the truth he said "Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean:" (Acts 18:6). And also, "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; (I Tim.3:10). Some people will never believe simple because they don't want to, and they will latch on to ANY EXCUSE to reject God. So please, let us stop casting pearls before swine and take Jesus to someone who will hear.

 

[reba]

welcome Kevin