Bible Study When Did Christ God Become The Son Of God?

[Elijah674]

Me again: Speaking of Christ in the Godhead's further Prophesied Eternal Plan. I like this O.T. two Prophesies & then the Climax when it was a done deal in the N.T.
First: 'i' see the PLAN in Eternal Prophecy, long long & long before it actually came into being! (consummated) Even for the ones 'IN FAITH' that were rescued from that one time Matt, 25:1 'Then shall the kingdom heaven be likened unto ten Virgins..' to the End result of Rev. 12's 1/3 finally & maturely being tossed out. With just a small Remnant of 'in between the %50 & the 1/3 being saved with the Godheads Eternal Rev. 14:6 Gospel!

Proverbs 8 Finds the future Plan being shown to us as 'i' see it! (compare Rom. 4:17 'and Calleth those things [which be not as though they were.]

[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. (The Eternal Plan)
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; (Again the Eternal Plan was brought forth) when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: (The Godhead had the Plan in Eternity!)

[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, [[I was there:]] when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
....
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and (now note how they talk of Christ with mankind & children in the further plan) I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Now: We find in Psalms 2 the time for Christ God to become God/Son & the Second Adam/Man is to be told us still on in prophecy!

[7] I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

And in Acts we read on past Christ Birth....
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And Heb. 1 tells us when this day was that Christ God became the Son of God!..

[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (being now made into the God/man Second Adam)
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

---Elijah

 

[savedbygrace57]

When Did Christ God Become The Son Of God?

Before all worlds, from Everlasting..

 

[Elijah674]

Before all worlds, from Everlasting..

As in the Eternal [PLAN] that had NO starting point!;)

 

[Who Says]

Me again: Speaking of Christ in the Godhead's further Prophesied Eternal Plan. I like this O.T. two Prophesies & then the Climax when it was a done deal in the N.T.
First: 'i' see the PLAN in Eternal Prophecy, long long & long before it actually came into being! (consummated) Even for the ones 'IN FAITH' that were rescued from that one time Matt, 25:1 'Then shall the kingdom heaven be likened unto ten Virgins..' to the End result of Rev. 12's 1/3 finally & maturely being tossed out. With just a small Remnant of 'in between the %50 & the 1/3 being saved with the Godheads Eternal Rev. 14:6 Gospel!

Proverbs 8 Finds the future Plan being shown to us as 'i' see it! (compare Rom. 4:17 'and Calleth those things [which be not as though they were.]

[22] The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. (The Eternal Plan)
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; (Again the Eternal Plan was brought forth) when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: (The Godhead had the Plan in Eternity!)

[26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, [[I was there:]] when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
....
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and (now note how they talk of Christ with mankind & children in the further plan) I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Now: We find in Psalms 2 the time for Christ God to become God/Son & the Second Adam/Man is to be told us still on in prophecy!

[7] I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

And in Acts we read on past Christ Birth....
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

And Heb. 1 tells us when this day was that Christ God became the Son of God!..

[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[4] Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. (being now made into the God/man Second Adam)
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

---Elijah

What we find at Psalms 2 is when the first human since Adam became a true son of God. But Jesus was created as the beging of God's way (the beginning of time). God is form before time. Jesus is the beginning of time and all else through and by him by the Father's good pleasure in his firstborn spirit Son.

Proverbs 8:22 ¶The Lord made me as the start of his way, the first of his works in the past. (The Bible in Basic English)

Proverbs 8:23 is contradictory in saying both "from everlasting" and "from the beginning". In verse 23 the word translated as "from everlasting" is the Hebrew "owlam" <H5769> -- pronounced: o-lawm' or `olam o-lawm'
from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future)"

So verse 23 is not say that Jesus is from everlasting. It is telling us that Jesu bgan at the vanishing point of time (the point where time began).

It is interesting what we learn once we humbly consider the posibility that we may be wrong or may have been lied to and so set our beliefs momentarily aside that we might be able to see.

The word the KJV and other Trinity influenced Bibles translate as "possessed me" is <H7069>.

qanah -- pronounced: kaw-naw'
a primitive root; to erect, i.e. create; (and only by extension) by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); (and only with the understanding of a previous purchase included) by implication to own:

The red highlighted words are my added words from what I know through other of my studies. It should be evident, though, as anything else would violate the root meaning of the word, which is "to erect, i.e. create".

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Which christ are you speaking of? Is it Moses, David, Abraham, Saul, Cyrus, christians, or Jesus?

Is this a rhetorical question? When does any son become their father's child? The answer is no mystery as it occurs when they are BORN. Jesus became the son of God at birth and was declared the son of God with power by his resurrection.

 

[Elijah674]

Christ was 'created' you post? 'But Jesus was created as the beging of God's way (the beginning of time).' [You falsely say!] You did not leave the J.W. behind much, huh! Wow! finally out in the open, kind/of!? Or are you still a Kingdom Hall Jehovah witness???

And it was the plan that was brought forward, when it was needed, not God/Christ!! But Son/Christ/Man. You best get into the Doctrine of Christ as in 2 John 1:9-11. For you sure are not now with it.

And Forum: Remember that John penned many Books of the Bible! From John 1 - Rev. end. And in John 14, 15, and 16 we see Christ continuely refering to the Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost as a [PERSON of 'HE'!] And John lived up to AD 96. And if anything needed to be corrected, surely he would have had it corrected.

And as your post did have some scripture saying it correctly.. [22] 'The LORD possessed me in the beginning of ['his' way], ....' So you are saying that God had a beginning also??
And AGAIN, it is the Eternal PLAN that the Godhead brought forth, needing a Second Man/Adam.

So with your J.W. theology, God had a beginning of His way also. Hardly good FAITH!

 

[Who Says]

Which christ are you speaking of? Is it Moses, David, Abraham, Saul, Cyrus, christians, or Jesus?

Is this a rhetorical question? When does any son become their father's child? The answer is no mystery as it occurs when they are BORN. Jesus became the son of God at birth and was declared the son of God with power by his resurrection.

That is right.

Moses, David, Abraham, Saul, Cyrus, christians, could only be viewed as sons of God before Jesus' becoming the first true human son of God since Adam, by the grace through faith crediting them that status in Jesus.

But for Christ all men were spiritually dead and therefore sons to no one any longer. They were just Adam's dead flesh but found life through Christ to become sons of God. Jesus being the first true human son of God since Adam their lives had to be transferred into him.

This is true spiritually first and bodily second: 1 Corinthians 15:20 "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."

Ephesians 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)"

Jesus was the mighty spirit Son of God before being sent to us in the flesh. He had to become a son of God in the flesh that he could replace our fallen father Adam and impart life to us.

Jesus was God's heavenly Son before he came to us to be a "son of man" declared by God to be his son in the flesh: John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

1 John 4:10 "Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins."

 

[Who Says]

Christ was 'created' you post? 'But Jesus was created as the beging of God's way (the beginning of time).' [You falsely say!] You did not leave the J.W. behind much, huh! Wow! finally out in the open, kind/of!? Or are you still a Kingdom Hall Jehovah witness???

And it was the plan that was brought forward, when it was needed, not God/Christ!! But Son/Christ/Man. You best get into the Doctrine of Christ as in 2 John 1:9-11. For you sure are not now with it.

And Forum: Remember that John penned many Books of the Bible! From John 1 - Rev. end. And in John 14, 15, and 16 we see Christ continuely refering to the Holy Spirit & Holy Ghost as a [PERSON of 'HE'!] And John lived up to AD 96. And if anything needed to be corrected, surely he would have had it corrected.

And as your post did have some scripture saying it correctly.. [22] 'The LORD possessed me in the beginning of ['his' way], ....' So you are saying that God had a beginning also??
And AGAIN, it is the Eternal PLAN that the Godhead brought forth, needing a Second Man/Adam.

So with your J.W. theology, God had a beginning of His way also. Hardly good FAITH!

The word the KJV and other Trinity influenced Bibles translate as "possessed me" is <H7069>.

qanah -- pronounced: kaw-naw'
a primitive root; to erect, i.e. create; (and only by extension) by extension, to procure, especially by purchase (causatively, sell); (and only with the understanding of a previous purchase included) by implication to own:

 

[savedbygrace57]

As in the Eternal [PLAN] that had NO starting point!;)

He was more than a Plan, He was an Entity, The Divine Son of God. Now He was part of an Eternal Covenant, whereby He made a Pact with His Father to be the Surety of God's Sheep..

 

[Elijah674]

He was more than a Plan, He was an Entity, The Divine Son of God. Now He was part of an Eternal Covenant, whereby He made a Pact with His Father to be the Surety of God's Sheep..

Then you agree that before Christ became Christ man He was indeed a son, 'god'? As the J.W. teach, Created, or whatever? But in NO way was He ETERNAL, and Immortal as God?? Have they changed from that of Christ being a created angel, to a created 'g'od son in terminology??? That is not the Truth of 2 John 1:9's DOCTRINE OF CHRIST that John WARNS about!

Whatever?? but with this fatal false teaching (with this just being one of many) the only thing brought forward was the Eternal Plan that Christ God would be the one to BECOME THE SON, when the PLAN was to be needed! In other words fallen 'sinners' that accepted this Eternal Plan by Faith, would have the Everlasting Gospel applied when the Plan was FINISHED! Heb. 11:13
And even that is not done while Christ IS STILL OUR HIGH PRIEST MINISTERING IN THE HEAVENLY SANCTUARY for His own!

Well friend, that IS NOT THE 'Doctrine' Of Christ God!

The only Christ/Son was the Son that was called so in the Godheads forknowlrdge! Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse!
'.... and calleth [those things which be not as though they were.]'

--Elijah

 

[mcgyver]

What we find at Psalms 2 is when the first human since Adam became a true son of God. But Jesus was created as the beging of God's way (the beginning of time). God is form before time. Jesus is the beginning of time and all else through and by him by the Father's good pleasure in his firstborn spirit Son.

Since I'm new here, and don't know everyone yet...and just to make sure that I'm understanding you correctly, is your assertion then that Jesus is a created being?

 

[Nathan]

Some people think that He is. And they are told this 'subconsciously'. How?

By saying that Jesus, the Christ, IS the Sabbath day. We know for a fact that God created the Sabbath day. We know when God created the Sabbath day. So in effect, those who take this line of thinking have succumb to the belief that Jesus the Christ was created.

 

[Elijah674]

Some people think that He is. And they are told this 'subconsciously'. How?

By saying that Jesus, the Christ, IS the Sabbath day. We know for a fact that God created the Sabbath day. We know when God created the Sabbath day. So in effect, those who take this line of thinking have succumb to the belief that Jesus the Christ was created.

And then there are some who believe that the 7Th Day Sabbath is Eternal even outside of our galaxies & into other Worlds with perfect order! (you know? God is a God of ORDER) That is my belief.;) Heb. 13:20's Eternal Covenant + Eternal Gospel of Rev. 14:4, and these [BOTH] Include the fourth ETERNAL 7th Day Sabbath Commandment of God!

And to know that on earth that the Sabbath Day was 'also' made for mankind? Surely! Mark 27-28. Also note Rev. 22:8-9 for this angel's Testimony!

--Elijah

 

[mcgyver]

And then there are some who believe that the 7Th Day Sabbath is Eternal even outside of our galaxies & into other Worlds with perfect order! (you know? God is a God of ORDER) That is my belief.;) Heb. 13:20's Eternal Covenant + Eternal Gospel of Rev. 14:4, and these [BOTH] Include the fourth ETERNAL 7th Day Sabbath Commandment of God!

And to know that on earth that the Sabbath Day was 'also' made for mankind? Surely! Mark 27-28. Also note Rev. 22:8-9 for this angel's Testimony!

--Elijah

Man, this brings a lot of questions!!! :D

Hmmm....Was the sabbath given to Israel, or the pagan nations?

The 10 commandments given as a sign of the covenant made on Sinai...613 laws, of which the first 10 were carried in the Ark of The Covenant.

Are we Christians under grace, or Jews under the law I wonder...After all, break one; guilty of ALL.

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:13-14

Which covenant are we under...the covenant of law, or the covenant of Grace?

In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. 1 Corinthians 11:25

New covenant....Hmmm

 

[Elijah674]

Man, this brings a lot of questions!!! :D

Hmmm....Was the sabbath given to Israel, or the pagan nations?

****
The Sabbath came to Mankindat Adam's First Day of life and of Worship!;) Inspiration has it as the Birthday of Creation! Psalms 135:13 And Israel 'i' find OK, for all the saved will be included as Israel! Do you know why God Called Abe the Gentile in the first place??

If you did? Then your questions might be found as Inspiration Documents in Eccl. 3:15? (the question mark is towards your post's question)
****

The 10 commandments given as a sign of the covenant made on Sinai...613 laws, of which the first 10 were carried in the Ark of The Covenant.

****
Called the Godheads TESTMONY! Not your 613 laws in the Side of the Ark written in a book by Moses, called Moses law. See Isa. 42:21
****

Are we Christians under grace, or Jews under the law I wonder...After all, break one; guilty of ALL.

****
--Elijah here:
Break any one of the ten & you are right back under the law. As simple as that! Unless Christ our High Priest is not 'still' such? And perhaps some do not believe the N.T. side in 1 John 3:4 with its Eternal defining of sin? But what you believe does not change the Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20 nor the Rev. 14:6 ETERNAL GOSPEL of the Universe of God!

And Under Grace means that you can still do your same old thing? Kill & the like.
Try telling Rom. 13's Caesar, that one! But yes, that is exactly what became of ALL the Rev. 17:1-5 ones say's God! And the world new's documents that as well.
****

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:13-14

****
Hey, did you not just post that there is NO LAW but only Grace?? Now 'i' see you give.. 'do not present your members as instruments of [unrighteousness TO SIN]..' (Any five year old can register the CONDITION THERE!)
****

Which covenant are we under...the covenant of law, or the covenant of Grace?

****
The Covenant has never changed God's Law & Obedience, Heb. 11:13 finds all of these O.T. ones ALL DIEING IN FAITH & SAVED BY GRACE! And Moses law? It had been added until Christ the 'Seed Came' Gal. 3:19 and then it was NO LONGER NEEDED because Christ mission was now over.

But your post say's that you sin & you never need to repent huh????? You tell God your answer, not me! OK? 1 John 2:4 say's something about 'liars' with 'NO Truth' who claim to know to... 'I KNOW HIM'.
****

In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. 1 Corinthians 11:25

New covenant....Hmmm

****
New in the sense that the second Adam was succesful & had confirmed the Eternal Covenant in His death! (Not doing away wit it) satan was finished as are his Gen. 4:7 Finished DESIRE'EES!

'Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, THAT GREAT SHEPARD OF THE SHEEP, [THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT].' Heb. 13:20

 

[Nathan]

Man, this brings a lot of questions!!! :D

Hmmm....Was the sabbath given to Israel, or the pagan nations?

The 10 commandments given as a sign of the covenant made on Sinai...613 laws, of which the first 10 were carried in the Ark of The Covenant.

Are we Christians under grace, or Jews under the law I wonder...After all, break one; guilty of ALL.

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:13-14

Which covenant are we under...the covenant of law, or the covenant of Grace?

In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. 1 Corinthians 11:25

New covenant....Hmmm

Sabbath, and all the law and testimonies were given to Israel. Jesus, the Christ, is the seed(singular) of Israel. Which brings up the question, who's seed are we?

The ten commandments were given as a testimony of God. Go back and read the account in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

You raise a great question! Are all Christians under grace? Or are the Jewish believers still under a law? Is there a difference between Jew and Greek in Christ? Try this one on, why were there no Gentile Apostles?

Sin has dominion when we walk in flesh, right? But what does grace do? Is it just a covering? Or does it do something?

Right! Search the Bible and see what the "new" covenant consisted of. See if it says anything about 'abolishment' of the law, much less the testimony of Christ.

And last but not least, this thread is all about when Christ became the Son of God. So was He 'created'? Were the testimonies of God created? Was the law created?

"New" covenant indeed! What does "new" mean?

 

[Elijah674]

Let's take this a little bit further as there seems to be some sincere questions? Way before there were any Jews (And we are not saying that Israel was not from Adam on) God spoke to His own, even came to Cain to try to get him to do WHAT WAS RIGHT. OK: Are some saying that there was NO ETERNAL LAW seen from heaven's rebellion to Adams fall & now Cain???

OK: Abe in Gen. 12:1-5 was CALLED OF GOD (and there were NO RECORDED Covenant seen by you'ins it seems? Not all of you) And in verse 5 we find that this Gentile had Gentile Souls won over to Christ. What was he teaching them?? You don't know? But I do because Inspiration tells me! (God will get to that later on down) Yet, Rev. 14:6 teaches of theEternal GOSPEL! & Heb. 13:20 teachs anETERNAL COvenant!

Again LONG before the ten Commandments were spoken & written in Stone & given to Moses on Mt Sinai, even with the forth Sabbath Command beginning with the Word remember, we found that Noah was called the preacher of RIGHTOUSNESS by Peter! But you do not know what that means either huh? He preached the ETERNAL GOSPEL OF CHRIST for 120 years with the Holy Spirit STRIVING ALONG WITH HIS PREACHING! (and who remembers what Christ said that the Holy Spirit would do?? Not many! But Christ stated that He would UPLIFT 'CHRIST' and not HIMSELF!) And by all not OBEYING meant that there was NO ETERNAL COVENANT??? you'ins & they to have some screws loose somewhere! THINK!

Now back to WHY ABE WAS CALLED OF GOD IN THE FIRST PLACE! While he was still a Gentile.. BUT AN OBEDIENT ONE! And OBEDIENT TO WHAT??[INSPIRATION] TELL'S ALL, WHO CAN THINK! Notice that God even SPOKE DIRECTLY TO HIM WITH HIS VOICE!! And this ETERNAL VOICE WAS NONE OTHER THAN CHRIST GOD!
Gen.26

[1] And there was a famine in the land, beside the first famine that was in the days of Abraham. And Isaac went unto Abimelech king of the Philistines unto Gerar.
[2] And the LORD appeared unto him, and said, Go not down into Egypt; dwell in the land which I shall tell thee of:
[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;
[4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

OK: PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT ABRAHAM KNEW, Long, Long, before Mount Sinia, AND [[WHAT HE WAS FAITHFUL IN DOING IN OBEDIENCE TO GOD BY PERSONAL INSTRUCTION FROM GOD!]] (And God even had Melchizedek (and OBEDIENCE?) Heb. 5:9-11...and the WORD 'DULL'?)

This is why God Called Abe to begin with, he was Obedient to all of the Inspiration from God below!

[5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

And you teach that they were given only to the Jews???
I suggest that you re/read your fate (if you cling to this satanic teaching much longer) in Eccl. 3:14 & Rev.'s last couple verses of WARNING!

--Elijah

 

[mcgyver]

Sabbath, and all the law and testimonies were given to Israel. Jesus, the Christ, is the seed(singular) of Israel. Which brings up the question, who's seed are we?

The ten commandments were given as a testimony of God. Go back and read the account in Exodus and Deuteronomy.

You raise a great question! Are all Christians under grace? Or are the Jewish believers still under a law? Is there a difference between Jew and Greek in Christ? Try this one on, why were there no Gentile Apostles?

Sin has dominion when we walk in flesh, right? But what does grace do? Is it just a covering? Or does it do something?

Right! Search the Bible and see what the "new" covenant consisted of. See if it says anything about 'abolishment' of the law, much less the testimony of Christ.

And last but not least, this thread is all about when Christ became the Son of God. So was He 'created'? Were the testimonies of God created? Was the law created?

"New" covenant indeed! What does "new" mean?

Hi Nathan :waving...sorry, not really tracking with you here (me need more coffee....)

In order to avoid confusion (on my part), do you have a link to a thread that explains your understanding of the interrelationship of grace to the law? Covenant relationships?

Thanks!

 

[mcgyver]

And you teach that they were given only to the Jews???
I suggest that you re/read your fate (if you cling to this satanic teaching much longer) in Eccl. 3:14 & Rev.'s last couple verses of WARNING!

--Elijah

Hmmm...screws loose and "satanic teaching"....**sigh**

Fortunately, my fate is not dependent on agreeing with you or not...my fate and my destiny are sealed in Christ, for I have been born again!

Be careful my friend, not to place yourself in the seat of an accuser of the brethren...for that's not a good place to be.

Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

 

[Nathan]

Hi Nathan :waving...sorry, not really tracking with you here (me need more coffee....)

In order to avoid confusion (on my part), do you have a link to a thread that explains your understanding of the interrelationship of grace to the law? Covenant relationships?

Thanks!

No. I do not keep a record of past posts/threads. But I am more than willing to answer questions when asked specifically to me.

Simply put, and this is in its simplicity, grace is the enabling power of God to live a Holy and Righteous life before Him. Some people equate it with the sacrifices of old. That Grace is this "covering", as the old testament people used the blood of sacrifices as a "covering" of their sins.

Paul puts it this way;

Rom 5:20-6:2 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

See, as sin 'increases' grace follows suit. But as Paul vehemently detested, grace is not there to 'cover' the sin (so we sin more to increase grace), but rather grace is there to bring us out of sin.

Grace is kind of like a modern day gps. When we get "lost"(sin), we look over to the "gps"(grace) and it guides us back on the path. But wait, whats its relationship to the "law"? Glad you asked(;)). The relationship is that we do not know we are getting off track(lost/sinning) if it was not for the law/testimonies.

So it is that the more we sin, the more grace is there to bring us out. But we do not sin just to have this grace abound to us.

As far as covenant relationships, look up where the old testament prophesies about the "new" covenant. Its in several places. And notice the common theme of them all.