When Satan demands to have you, that he might sift you like wheat

[gordontimmy]

The Galatians are the same testimony, receiving the Spirit, and becoming foolish to return to the flesh. Then all is vain.

The Galatians example is they served idols, (covetousness which is idolatry) and knowing God turned again to serve vanity, observing days, and the labour was given to them then, in vain.



Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.



What reason then do people teach that we are saved, and cant fail ? Especially as that is antichrist to the gospel of Jesus Christ, for us to be the lowest, the last and the least ?

Well they are predicted to creep in as they are ordained to condemnation, they turn the grace of God ( the Holy Spirit gift) into lasciviousness, to deny the Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their doctrine is TOO EASILY DISCOVERED, they are WITHOUT FEAR. ( which is to be WITHOUT FRUIT.)



Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;




To fear ( God) is taught very well in the new testament, here is some that cant be too easily resisted. ( again so the apostle had not run in VAIN for those who SHOULD work out their salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING.)

Unbelief ( no fear of God/no humility. Jeremiah 44:10.) was exactly why Israel was cut off, and we cant stand the same way, but we are to NOT BE LIKEWISE HIGHMINDED, BUT TO FEAR.

Who hears the message of exaltation that you cant lose salvation, instead of the EXAMPLE OF WHY ISRAEL WAS CUT OFF, to TAKE HEED SO GOD ALSO MIGHT NOT SPARE US.

We have goodness from God, IF WE CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS, otherwise, WE SHALL ALSO BE CUT OFF...



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Philippains 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[gordontimmy]

For our reminder/clarification, relevance, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is for the little ones, as little children, humbled, if I was running a race that I cant lose, it must be a fixed race, or at least with no fairness/competition in it at all.

The whole of life teaches us from children up, how to do things well, such as study hard and get grades, to do good to our parents is to be grateful to the ones who wanted us to exist in the first place, to hear about Jesus Christ always doing the things that please the Father, is a way of good behaviour, even until His cross.

The forum has a great need for remembering the kingdom of heaven, what good is any other doctrine..


Matthew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

The Galatians are the same testimony, receiving the Spirit, and becoming foolish to return to the flesh. Then all is vain.

The Galatians example is they served idols, (covetousness which is idolatry) and knowing God turned again to serve vanity, observing days, and the labour was given to them then, in vain.



Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.



What reason then do people teach that we are saved, and cant fail ? Especially as that is antichrist to the gospel of Jesus Christ, for us to be the lowest, the last and the least ?

Well they are predicted to creep in as they are ordained to condemnation, they turn the grace of God ( the Holy Spirit gift) into lasciviousness, to deny the Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Their doctrine is TOO EASILY DISCOVERED, they are WITHOUT FEAR. ( which is to be WITHOUT FRUIT.)



Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;




To fear ( God) is taught very well in the new testament, here is some that cant be too easily resisted. ( again so the apostle had not run in VAIN for those who SHOULD work out their salvation with FEAR AND TREMBLING.)

Unbelief ( no fear of God/no humility. Jeremiah 44:10.) was exactly why Israel was cut off, and we cant stand the same way, but we are to NOT BE LIKEWISE HIGHMINDED, BUT TO FEAR.

Who hears the message of exaltation that you cant lose salvation, instead of the EXAMPLE OF WHY ISRAEL WAS CUT OFF, to TAKE HEED SO GOD ALSO MIGHT NOT SPARE US.

We have goodness from God, IF WE CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS, otherwise, WE SHALL ALSO BE CUT OFF...



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Philippains 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

We must work our salvation with fear and trembling that's true. My stance on this is exemplified by Simon Magus, who believed and was baptized and yet did not receive the Holy Ghost from Peter because Peter perceived his heart was not right before God. So, in Simon Magus we have the archetype of baptized believers not indwelled by the Holy Ghost.

This is crucial for many believers have the Holy Ghost working alongside them yet not indwelling them. However, these types of believers delude themselves into believing they have the Holy Ghost and invite bigger evil upon themselves in the process and once the Holy Ghost stops working alongside them, they become the proverbial dog returning to their vomit.

My stance though is that once one is indwelled truly with the Holy Spirit and has tasted of the fruits of the Holy Spirit then it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to depart. Yet let me rephrase there are many others called believers but not chosen who confuse the Holy Spirit working alongside them with the Holy Spirit being in them. From such people comes arrogance etc. The true believers who have the Holy Spirit exude faith, hope and love. Hence people must work out their salvation with fear and trembling lest they delude themselves they have the Holy Ghost when in reality they don't.

 

[gordontimmy]

My stance though is that once one is indwelled truly with the Holy Spirit and has tasted of the fruits of the Holy Spirit then it is impossible for the Holy Spirit to depart. Yet let me rephrase there are many others called believers but not chosen who confuse the Holy Spirit working alongside them with the Holy Spirit being in them. From such people comes arrogance etc. The true believers who have the Holy Spirit exude faith, hope and love. Hence people must work out their salvation with fear and trembling lest they delude themselves they have the Holy Ghost when in reality they don't.

Without the Holy Spirit, nobody can work their salvation out with FEAR and TREMBLING, having no understanding, no Spirit of truth, no fear of God....



Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the Lord: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

2 Corinthians 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

 

[gordontimmy]

The scriptures are more relevant on theology, than a persons own ideas.

Clearly the Holy Spirit of the fear of the Lord is only available to those with the Spirit, it is PRECISELY those who are able to work out their salvation with fear and trembling, as also exampled by apostle Paul and the other believers in fear and trembling, and is DEFINATELY not for those who have any Spirit beside them. ( which is unscriptural)

 

[Follower Of Christ]

For our reminder/clarification, relevance, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is for the little ones, as little children, humbled, if I was running a race that I cant lose, it must be a fixed race, or at least with no fairness/competition in it at all.

The whole of life teaches us from children up, how to do things well, such as study hard and get grades, to do good to our parents is to be grateful to the ones who wanted us to exist in the first place, to hear about Jesus Christ always doing the things that please the Father, is a way of good behaviour, even until His cross.

The forum has a great need for remembering the kingdom of heaven, what good is any other doctrine..


Matthew 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

The first post I made in this forum involved Matthew 7:21-23. There are many believers that invoke the name of Jesus Christ in their day-to-day activities, who yet have not been sanctified by the Holy Spirit but delude themselves into believing that is the case. This is compounded by the fact that these believers usually belong to a specific denomination having received a so-called nominal baptism which again as in the case of Simon Magus does not guarantee sanctification by the Holy Spirit.

The race to receiving the crown of righteousness is hard and few finish it. The rest follow a pastor or preacher and get fed up platitudes instead being cut off from Christ who is the head of the church. From such people comes zealotry, arrogance, lack of humility and so on being deluded they have the Holy Ghost and guaranteed salvation.

These are my thoughts and stance. I think I am done contributing to this thread.

 

[gordontimmy]

Simon believed, hearing preaching of the things of the kingdom of God, and the Holy Ghost was fallen on nobody, until the laying on of hands at that time.

Which highlighted a fault, how men sought to control others.

Simon reveals his heart is not right with God, doing wickedness, being bitter and in iniquity. ( iniquity is unbelief, and strife is bitterness.)..



Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

 

[gordontimmy]

The first post I made in this forum involved Matthew 7:21-23. There are many believers that invoke the name of Jesus Christ in their day-to-day activities, who yet have not been sanctified by the Holy Spirit but delude themselves into believing that is the case. This is compounded by the fact that these believers usually belong to a specific denomination having received a so-called nominal baptism which again as in the case of Simon Magus does not guarantee sanctification by the Holy Spirit.

The race to receiving the crown of righteousness is hard and few finish it. The rest follow a pastor or preacher and get fed up platitudes instead being cut off from Christ who is the head of the church. From such people comes zealotry, arrogance, lack of humility and so on being deluded they have the Holy Ghost and guaranteed salvation.

Matthew 7 shows people working iniquity. ( unbelief)

Unbelief is to follow in exaltation, instead of in humility.

To do the sayings of Christ are to be the last, the least and the lowest, what has that got to do with not being abkle to fail, and to be lifted up to heaven as satan was...


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.



Guaranteed salvation is that Christ has overcome death and we are exhorted to do the same..



John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[gordontimmy]

These are my thoughts and stance. I think I am done contributing to this thread.

What happened to being quick to hear and slow to speak, to only speak of contributing, thoughts and stance and not receiving any INSTEAD...


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[Follower Of Christ]

What happened to being quick to hear and slow to speak, to only speak of contributing, thoughts and stance and not receiving any INSTEAD...


James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

I gladly read and hear your thoughts on the matter, what you say about this forum needing more humility and so on. Please keep on contributing.

Also, everything I have mentioned in this thread has its basis on scripture, but I should have included more scripture quotations in this thread.

Still, there is much to be gained in brevity of thought and argument too. I have been guilty of indulging in the past in this forum in over quoting scriptures and so on. In the process of bettering myself, I am trying to be as brief as I can for, I am internalizing that these threads are read by others who are under time constraints like we are.

Anyway, a conversation is a two-way street. I listen and hear what you are saying but I am not getting a reciprocation from you about my scriptural stance.

I did not try to cut short this conversation out of lack of respect but just to reflect the above points I made. And I take John 14:26 very much to heart. We all have our path to follow and if we want to attain the crown of righteousness, we follow Christ guided by the Holy Spirit. The exhortations we meet from brothers and sisters serve as encouragement to continue running the race until the end. I hear them and gladdens my heart, but I follow no man just Christ.

Blessings!
Follower Of Christ

 

[Consecrated Life]

The first post I made in this forum involved Matthew 7:21-23. There are many believers that invoke the name of Jesus Christ in their day-to-day activities, who yet have not been sanctified by the Holy Spirit but delude themselves into believing that is the case. This is compounded by the fact that these believers usually belong to a specific denomination having received a so-called nominal baptism which again as in the case of Simon Magus does not guarantee sanctification by the Holy Spirit.

The race to receiving the crown of righteousness is hard and few finish it. The rest follow a pastor or preacher and get fed up platitudes instead being cut off from Christ who is the head of the church. From such people comes zealotry, arrogance, lack of humility and so on being deluded they have the Holy Ghost and guaranteed salvation.

These are my thoughts and stance. I think I am done contributing to this thread.

It is a dicey business , and if I might say so , above any believer's paygrade to claim the ability to be able to perceive the spiritual contents within the heart of another who claims salvation in Christ, but exhibits what one considers signs to the contrary.
For instance whose interpretation, & what manner of "zeal" are you considering a sign in the regard to which you speak ?
I have not seen a specific example of which you speak in this thread in that regard ?
Your own ?
You Could not mean many mentions of zeal given in scripture, which goes so far as to speak of individuals absolutely eaten up with zeal , with only a positive Spiritual connotation attached .

Psalm 69:9
For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up

Unless I have missed it in this thread , what is your stated goal in identifying individuals who is under self-delusion ?

 

[Follower Of Christ]

It is a dicey business , and if I might say so , above any believer's paygrade to claim the ability to be able to perceive the spiritual contents within the heart of another who claims salvation in Christ, but exhibits what one considers signs to the contrary.
For instance whose interpretation, & what manner of "zeal" are you considering a sign in the regard to which you speak ?
I have not seen a specific example of which you speak in this thread in that regard ?
Your own ?
You Could not mean many mentions of zeal given in scripture, which goes so far as to speak of individuals absolutely eaten up with zeal , with only a positive Spiritual connotation attached .

Psalm 69:9
For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up

Unless I have missed it in this thread , what is your stated goal in identifying individuals who is under self-delusion ?

It's simple: Many are called few are chosen, that's scripture talking not me. The few are those sanctified by the Holy Spirit, the rest are deluded in believing the Holy Spirit dwells in them. Those deluded speak from the wickedness of their own heart, God has not sent them.

What I wrote in the beginning of the thread referred to not just this forum but to all facets of Christian life and Christianity on this planet. You quote Psalm 69:9 and you do well. There is plenty of zeal in the realm of Christendom, the problem is it is mostly from those deluded that they have the Holy Spirit and feel they are on a mission from God.

It's up to you and others to judge me whether I am deluded as well. Regardless, I know I am accountable to Jesus Christ on the day of judgement for all that I speak.

Still, I am not in a position to judge people individually whether they have the Holy Ghost or not. But on the aggregate, scripture tells us that many are deluded across the planet, and all they sputter is empty words. Using inferential statistics about samples, I can infer that for many in this forum the above applies too. That is why my intent is to just sit and listen to what others have to say from now on and only interfere when really needed. You can keep on posting, feel free to do so.

 

[Consecrated Life]

It's simple: Many are called few are chosen, that's scripture talking not me. The few are those sanctified by the Holy Spirit, the rest are deluded in believing the Holy Spirit dwells in them. Those deluded speak from the wickedness of their own heart, God has not sent them.

And that's the end of them, their final fate sealed as far as you are concerned ?
Give them up to Satan it seems ?
Is that Christ like:

Luk 22:32
"But I have prayed for thee"

How is that the enriching of others thru purposeful living provided you from the great gift you have been given , given despite you & me deserving nothing ?
How do we know who has been chosen and who has not based upon an encounter with the presently unbelieving thru delusion when they have yet to live out their days or even more paramount concern what might be their lack of days in front of them,
Has Christ commanded that in such encounters we are to " sit Back " or are we commanded to be a Blessing thru our own humility, sympathy + Love for the lost ?
Because we know from Christ that the majority of the world will be lost do you take that as license to refrain from living for the paramount purpose of making salvation universal ?
I certainly do not .
I know for myself that there was time when Christ was beckoning to me and drawing me to Himself before I was Saved that I spoke out of ignorance concerning what I considered my assurance of the Kingdom.
Thanks be to God for the faithful friends I treasure to this day who spotted waywardness in understanding ,yet fully understood the promise of Him who sent them to me , " HE SHALL NOT FAIL" and their responsibility in that regard,
" goeth after that which is lost until HE find it ,"

God Bless + Have A Blessed Weekend

 

[Follower Of Christ]

And that's the end of them, their final fate sealed as far as you are concerned ?
Give them up to Satan it seems ?
Is that Christ like:

Luk 22:32
"But I have prayed for thee"

How is that the enriching of others thru purposeful living provided you from the great gift you have been given , given despite you & me deserving nothing ?
How do we know who has been chosen and who has not based upon an encounter with the presently unbelieving thru delusion when they have yet to live out their days or even more paramount concern what might be their lack of days in front of them,
Has Christ commanded that in such encounters we are to " sit Back " or are we commanded to be a Blessing thru our own humility, sympathy + Love for the lost ?
Because we know from Christ that the majority of the world will be lost do you take that as license to refrain from living for the paramount purpose of making salvation universal ?
I certainly do not .
I know for myself that there was time when Christ was beckoning to me and drawing me to Himself before I was Saved that I spoke out of ignorance concerning what I considered my assurance of the Kingdom.
Thanks be to God for the faithful friends I treasure to this day who spotted waywardness in understanding ,yet fully understood the promise of Him who sent them to me , " HE SHALL NOT FAIL" and their responsibility in that regard,
" goeth after that which is lost until HE find it ,"

God Bless + Have A Blessed Weekend

I hear what you are saying. However we know from John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." It's the Father in heaven who does the drawing at his time of choosing not the endless preaching of those deluded who think they are on a mission from God. You know any person wishing to entertain becoming a Christian would probably be discouraged by reading the endless threads in this forum full of disputes and contrary statements and so on. That is the point I am trying to make for from Luke 12:32 we know the true church is a little flock.

Bless you too. Thank you for your input. I have nothing more to add to this thread.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Tares are what does not believe in Jesus Christ, the works He did in the Fathers name bore witness of Him.

No, both claim to believe in Jesus Christ, only their fruit distinguishes them as they mature:

Tares (also known as darnel) are nearly indistinguishable from wheat until maturity, particularly in the early stages of growth:

1. Similar Appearance: Tares, or darnel grass, closely resemble wheat in the early stages of their growth. Both plants have similar color and size, making it hard to tell them apart visually.
2. Growth Pattern: Tares grow alongside wheat and mimic the wheat in height and structure. This similarity in growth pattern makes it difficult for farmers to identify and separate them during the crucial early stages of growth.
3. Late Differentiation: The differences between wheat and tares become more apparent as they mature. While wheat bears grain that is heavier and causes the stalk to bend, darnel's seeds are lighter and the plant tends to remain erect. However, by the time these differences are noticeable, their roots are often intertwined, making separation without harming the wheat challenging.
4. Seed Similarity: Even at maturity, the seeds of darnel resemble those of wheat, though they are slightly darker. This similarity can pose problems during the harvest, as separating them requires careful examination and can be labor-intensive.

26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

 

[gordontimmy]

No, both claim to believe in Jesus Christ, only their fruit distinguishes them as they mature:

Tares (also known as darnel) are nearly indistinguishable from wheat until maturity, particularly in the early stages of growth:

1. Similar Appearance: Tares, or darnel grass, closely resemble wheat in the early stages of their growth. Both plants have similar color and size, making it hard to tell them apart visually.
2. Growth Pattern: Tares grow alongside wheat and mimic the wheat in height and structure. This similarity in growth pattern makes it difficult for farmers to identify and separate them during the crucial early stages of growth.
3. Late Differentiation: The differences between wheat and tares become more apparent as they mature. While wheat bears grain that is heavier and causes the stalk to bend, darnel's seeds are lighter and the plant tends to remain erect. However, by the time these differences are noticeable, their roots are often intertwined, making separation without harming the wheat challenging.
4. Seed Similarity: Even at maturity, the seeds of darnel resemble those of wheat, though they are slightly darker. This similarity can pose problems during the harvest, as separating them requires careful examination and can be labor-intensive.

26 "But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.
27 "So the servants of the owner came and said to him,`Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?'
28 "He said to them,`An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him,`Do you want us then to go and gather them up?'
29 "But he said,`No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
30 `Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"

Jesus Christ has declared to the whole world what the kingdom of heaven is.

Tares are in His kingdom and need to be removed, they are what OFFENDS IN HIS KINGDOM, they are THEM WHICH DO INIQUITY IN HIS KINGDOM.

Jesus describes the kingdom of heaven as hidden treasure in a field, ( the field is the world and the Son of man sowed the good seed) and when a man has found ( the hidden treasure of the good word sowed) the man hides this ( joy) and sells all he has to buy that field. ( buy the joy of the good word sown by Christ)

The kingdom of heaven is equal to a net that gathers from the sea, good and bad, the good gathered into vessels, the bad cast away.

The wicked are severed from among the just, but right now the WICKED SHALL DO WICKEDLY, and NONE OF THE WICKED SHALL UNDERSTAND, but THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND....



Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



Goats never believed, the sheep believe, ( His sheep hear HIs voice and follow Him) its not difficult to remember the testimony of the gospel of Christ, is it ?

The sheep feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, take the stranger in, cloth the naked, visit the sick and prisoners. They are merciful to Christ.

The goats, give no food, or drink, take no stranger in, do not cloth the naked, do not help or visit the sick or prisoners, they give no mercy to Christ.



Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[gordontimmy]

Back on understanding, which is lacking in the tares.

Three places of testimony for you, they are WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING, they speak evil of the things THEY UNDERSTAND NOT, these speak evil of those things WHICH THEY KNOW NOT....



Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 

[donadams]

I have been thinking a lot lately since joining this forum, about the issue of zealotry, that goes on in this forum and other facets of human life and endeavor as it pertains to matters of Christ.

In Romans 9:15 it is stated “For he said to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion””.

Luke 22:31-32 describes Peter’s spiritual condition by these verses “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you that he might sift you like wheat. But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”

From Revelation 12:9 “And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world – he was thrown down to earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.”

Satan until he is thrown down by Michael, has access to God’s throne and accuses us towards the Father. Please note that he has not been thrown down from heaven yet, for that shall be only at the time of the end from Daniel 12:1.

What I am trying to get through to, is that many who believe are saved, should be a lot humbler, for if they are saved by mercy of God, that is not nothing to boast of, and if not saved, they are just using vain words and long treatises to defend themselves and deceive others in the process. From Ephesians 5:6 “Let no one deceive you with empty words…”

How does that apply to me? From James 2:19 “You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe – and shudder!” If I have a demon in me uttering the above words, that still should be a warning to you. And if I don’t, even more the above words should be a warning to you.

I shall stop with this last sentence for from Ecclesiastes 5:7 “For when dreams increase and words grow many, there is vanity; but God is the one you must fear.”

Are you saved?
is anyone saved in this life?
If you saved why do need to “pray and watch”? Matt 26:41
Why resist sin and iniquity? Heb 12:4
And the devil if your already saved? James 4:7

 

[Follower Of Christ]

Are you saved?
is anyone saved in this life?
If you saved why do need to “pray and watch”? Matt 26:41
Why resist sin and iniquity? Heb 12:4
And the devil if your already saved? James 4:7

I was saved the moment I stopped having priests and paators intermediate for me before God for they can't. Only Christ can intercede for me infront of the father in the holy of holies.

I have a fellowship with Jesus thank you very much. Don't need the fellowship of priest and pastor. I hear the exhortations around me but I run the race following Christ not man.

Please read the whole thread to understand my position.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Goats never believed, the sheep believe, ( His sheep hear HIs voice and follow Him) its not difficult to remember the testimony of the gospel of Christ, is it ?

Everyone believes at first, but only those with "saving belief" manifest good fruit, good works.

We know which are TARES and which are WHEAT by their fruit.

Faith without works is dead.

But at first, both tares and wheat look the same.

But you reject the parable? Claim the tares have no belief at all. Then the parable is wrong, they would be easily distinguished from the wheat.

For example, the "Goats" call Christ "lord", so they believe. But they don't have any "works":

41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand,`Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 `for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 `I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying,`Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, saying,`Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' (Matt. 25:41-45 NKJ)