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When the Son of Man comes, shall He find faith ?

Geo

Member
by Tom Stewart

Jesus promised that He would avenge speedily anyone who would truly pray and not faint; but, the real issue is whether or not He would find a people in which dwells True Faith, when He returns. "When the Son of Man cometh, shall He find faith on the Earth?" (Luke 18:8). Surely, the LORD was not referring to Professing Evangelical Christianity when He made this statement-- or, was He? "7 And shall not God avenge His Own Elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of Man cometh, shall He find faith on the Earth?" (18:7-8).

The solution to Christ's question, "When the Son of Man cometh, shall He find faith on the Earth?", is antinomianism. But, you ask, "What is antinomianism?" It is the heresy without a face, presently infecting the vitals of Professing Evangelical Christianity. "And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (Matthew 24:12). Antinomianism comes from the Greek words "anti" against, and "nomos" law-- "against law". It was considered a heretical doctrine by the Early Church of the 2nd Century, being championed by the Gnostics, i.e., who believed matter to be evil, the spirit good, and salvation to come by secret knowledge (gnosis) granted to initiates. "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22).

Antinomians believe in freedom from the obligation to obey the Moral Law to be saved. "Do we then make void the Law through Faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the Law" (Romans 3:31). The heresy of antinomianism springs from unrightly "dividing the Word of Truth" (2Timothy 2:15). And, what Scripture do antinomians mishandle? "Ye are not under the Law, but under Grace" (Romans 6:14) has been the "stone of stumbling" and "rock of offence" to antinomians, who "stumble at the Word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed" (1Peter 2:8). Jude warned against antinomianism, even in the 1st Century. "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness [unbridled lust], and denying the only LORD God, and our LORD Jesus Christ" (Jude 4).

What does it mean, "Ye are not under the Law, but under grace" (Romans 6:14)? This verse simply means that men are not justified and saved by their own works-- which are the "deeds of the Law"-- but by God's grace. "Therefore by the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be justified in His sight: for by the Law is the knowledge of sin" (Romans 3:20). The guilty-but-now-penitent sinner cannot be accepted and treated as if he were just, i.e., justified, without the merciful pardon of God. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5). And, if God had not voluntarily, freely, and graciously conceived and promoted this program of pardon and redemption, no man would ever be saved. "Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24).

Licentiousness is the lack of moral restraint that accompanies antinomianism. "1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2). Because the antinomian perverts the grace of God, Jude warned of "ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" (Jude 4), where lasciviousness is unbridled lust or licentiousness. "12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof... 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the Law, but under grace" (Romans 6:12,14). In fact, the Apostle Paul pronounced damnation upon those who used faith in God and the grace of God as an excuse for their sin. "And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just" (3:8).

Gospel Salvation is not freedom from the Moral Law, but freedom to obey the Moral Law. "For not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law shall be justified" (Romans 2:13). The Moral Law is not the Civil Law of Old Testament Israel, nor is it the Ceremonial Law of worship for the ancient Jew, but it is the unchanging requirement of supreme love for God, and an equal love for our neighbor as ourself. "37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind... 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Matthew 22:37,39). Where there is not this Condition of Justification fulfilled of complete and entire obedience to the Moral Law, there cannot be Gospel Salvation. "8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love... 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?" (1John 4:8,20). But, the Spirit of Grace (Hebrews 10:29) is given to the Saints to gain that obedience to the Moral Law. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

Antinomianism today, takes advantage of the ignorance of Professing Christianity concerning the true nature of our Justification by Faith, stressing grace and faith apart from obedience to the Moral Law. "What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the Law: for I had not known lust, except the Law had said, Thou shalt not covet" (Romans 7:7). And, when the Ten Commandments, which expresses the substance of the Moral Law, become the symbol of a vilified, legalistic salvation, then antinomianism has succeeded in convincing Professing Evangelical Christianity to depart from the "faith which was once delivered unto the Saints" (Jude 3).

May God grant you the wisdom to avoid the "profane and vain babblings" (1Timothy 6:20) of modern antinomianism, and make you "wise unto salvation" (2Timothy 3:15).

-------------------------------
author: Tom Stewart
 
The faith Jesus was speaking about was "Believing God" not "believing IN God"

Many believe IN God. That type of faith is everywhere

Few believe God.
 
It's not difficult to see who believes God. His children that are obedient to him.

The ones that "spiritualize" His commandments exalt themselmes, they would do good to be humble and obedient instead. The meek and poor in spirit will be comforted, they that are obedient receive the Holy Spirit,

they are the doers who believe what God said and do it, the others are tree of knowledge based, knowing about God.
 
Faith is like the electricity that flows through the light bulb.

We are like the light bulb.

When the Son of man comes he brings faith.

Joe
 
Let's check some definitions outside the world of electricity:

Distinctions are essential to understand and separate error and truth


WORKS -> SALVATION

[-> ] means “results in.†That's Legalism with
a heart that is unregenerate, void of faith in and love for God



Another form of legalism:

FAITH + WORKS -> SALVATION

faith and works together, but trusting in part in their works.




FAITH -> SALVATION + WORKS

believe the gospel and be saved, but also transformed by God’s grace,
and manifest God’s work with joyful obedience.
Unlike legalists, the true believers obedience springs from within,
because their heart has been changed.




Antinomianism is:

FAITH -> SALVATION – WORKS

Antinomians suppose that their faith results in their salvation,
even though validating works of a transformed life are not manifested.
Additionally, they misunderstand the nature of saving faith,
the full work of God’s grace in the lives of those who believe,
the Christian’s relationship to God’s law, and the necessity of repentance.
 
Geo,

Isaac, the son of promise, had two sons, twins.

Consider what their relationship was after Jacob wrestled with the angel. Jacob bowed 7 times to Esau and called him lord, after Jacob had sent Esau gifts that Esau did not need. Esau dismounted from his animal and ran and kissed Jacob and wept, and they were reconciled, though they could not live in the same place.

Yet Jacob/Israel was the one chosen to inherit the priesthood/birthright. Esau was given a kingdom.

Joe
 
Joe,

ok, this explains it then what we see. What we can do is to remind ourselves and others that are currently involved in disobedience to come out of it. Not all that walk in it, are appointed to walk in it. Some only got entangled in it because of their stubbornness, free will as you know is and remains an absolute.

The call to come out remains for 'MY people: Revelation 18:4  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Ephesians 2:2  Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 5:6  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6  For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1 Peter 2:8  And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
 
Luke 6
[46] And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
[47] Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and [[doeth them,]] I will shew you to whom he is like:

[48] He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

[49] But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

It is not hard to understand or 'see' which hath real Faith IN THE ROCK! Rom. 8:1 was not enough without the 14th verse of BEING LED AND FOLLOWING ON! The ones of Rev, 3:16 make Christ SICK it appears?? :crying

--Elijah
 
Our Lord Jesus had just covered events of the great tribulation back in Luke 17, and what He said at the start of Luke 18 about avenging His elect is connected with that timing.

Luke 18:7-14
7 And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them?
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
9 And He spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, 'God be merciful to me a sinner.'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
(KJV)

It is about following Christ in what He commanded us to do. It is especially about the condition of our Faith on The Father through Him, and not of following the law, for He gave that Pharisee as an example of one who followed the law and thought himself righteous and justified, instead of being justified by Faith. It is about those who humble themselves before God instead of exalting themselves, for as Isaiah said, we are all as filthy rags before God. That does not exclude doing God's commandments under Christ, for if we walk by The Spirit like Paul said in Galatians, then we will be fulfilling the royal law.

It is about remaining in Faith, seeking to do good and praying to be delivered from the tribulation, for it's going to be a time of great trials upon those who remain faithful in Christ Jesus. Some faithful will be tested even to the death.

Very true the type of thinking engulfing this present world is of those who think they have power to justify themselves without God. And that's exactly one of the tests that is upon us now, yet there is another, a much stronger one yet to come in our near future.

Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us many times about a false one that is coming to work great signs and wonders upon the earth, so that it would deceive many into believing he is God; even that he would deceive Christ's elect IF it were possible. That's about the coming "strong delusion" God is sending upon this earth for the great tribulation. When that false one does come to deceive the whole world, those in Faith now, will they remain faithful then? Will our Lord Jesus at His coming find many faithful and waiting on Him, or will they fall away to bow to that false one instead? That false one is going to deceive many, even some in our own families will wonder why we won't bow in worship to that coming false messiah, for they will think he is God.

Isa 8:13-17
13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts Himself; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread.
14 And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among My disciples.
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, That hideth His face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for Him.
(KJV)

How many will wait for Him when He hides His face for a short time (tribulation)? How many will remain "a chaste virgin" for Christ when He comes? A test of Faith is what the tribualtion is going to be about. Prepare for being ridiculed and persecuted even by some in our own families who will be deceived, just because we will refuse to bow to that coming false messiah in place of Christ. If we wait for Christ Who is to come at the end of the tribulation to destroy that Wicked one, all the way to the end, that is how Christ will find Faith on the earth when He comes.
 
yep. Matthew 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

This "strong delusion" mentioned is among us since a while already, it's just not finalized yet. There is still grace available to repent. And grace to grow up.

Also, "be hated of all men" is visible today, but it's not yet the prevailing sentiment everywhere you go. But it will be, suddenly, when the final testing and tribulation starts. Because it will become visible during the "final recession" and war to all who everyone is, and where everyone has their faith. That contrast will draw real hate of the world towards the faithful ones. It will be visible outwardly to all.

Deceptions by spirits will increase, if that's is even possible, but what will visibly increase are the signs and wonders of them. Nobody is safe outside of walking in the royal law of God, walking in the substance of it, not in the PhD version. Because the spirit temptations will take over all superficial beliefs:

Mark 13:21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

The ones that will believe them are in final danger, because God himself ! will send a strong delusion to finalize their by self-will chosen state ! How very serious His warning:

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Cornelius said:
The faith Jesus was speaking about was "Believing God" not "believing IN God"

Many believe IN God. That type of faith is everywhere

Few believe God.
In context of the scripture there is something specific we should be believing and that is that Christ will bring justice when He comes avenging His people by bringing justice and judgment to the wicked.
 
@op... i think that's a very lop-sided view.

Paul also warns not to get back in bed with the law. That is to say that we have become one with Christ and are dead to the law through union with him. That means we are dead to sin also. We are to awake to righteousness and sin not. But if any man sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ. if a person has faith in Jesus, then fruit will result. but there is no righteousness in the law. there is only righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ who fulfilled the law for us.

the law is not our mediator. you can not take A truth and make it THE truth. keep the emphasis where it belongs.... Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. the law is not. im dead to it... and i am alive with Christ. i overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil by the blood of the Lamb and the Word of my testimony. and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith... in Jesus Christ.
 
Geo said:
yep. Matthew 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

This "strong delusion" mentioned is among us since a while already, it's just not finalized yet. There is still grace available to repent. And grace to grow up.

Also, "be hated of all men" is visible today, but it's not yet the prevailing sentiment everywhere you go. But it will be, suddenly, when the final testing and tribulation starts. Because it will become visible during the "final recession" and war to all who everyone is, and where everyone has their faith. That contrast will draw real hate of the world towards the faithful ones. It will be visible outwardly to all.

Deceptions by spirits will increase, if that's is even possible, but what will visibly increase are the signs and wonders of them. Nobody is safe outside of walking in the royal law of God, walking in the substance of it, not in the PhD version. Because the spirit temptations will take over all superficial beliefs:

Mark 13:21  And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

The ones that will believe them are in final danger, because God himself ! will send a strong delusion to finalize their by self-will chosen state ! How very serious His warning:

2 Thessalonians 2:7-12  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Ellen G. White Estate
Special Testimonies On Education (1897), page 73, paragraph 3
Chapter Title: Character Building.-
The foundation firmly laid, we need wisdom that we may know how to build. When Moses was about to erect the sanctuary in the wilderness, he was cautioned, "See that thou make all things according to the pattern showed to thee in the mount." In his law God has given us a pattern. Our character building is to be "after the pattern showed to thee in the mount." The law is the great standard of righteousness. It

74

represents the character of God, and is the test of our loyalty to his government. And it is revealed to us, in all its beauty and excellence, in the life of Christ. The law is the detector of sin. We have inspired testimony on this point: "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came [home to the conscience], sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me." Romans 7:9-11. This is the work that it will do for every soul that is living in sin. The law points out sin, and condemns it, and sends the sinner to Christ for pardon and cleansing. "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

Elijah here: I picked this up on the net two days back. I am not of this denomination, yet this short old print goes right along with my faith in the Lord teachings! Ps. 77:13 Perhaps it agrees with some other 'Faith' when Christ comes?
 
Hi theTruthful: the emphasis of this is not to get in "bed with the law" but to show what the emphasis of the false gospel is at time of the end. That is based on a 'grace' that is in bed with lawlessness. Most people never understood the correct meaning of God's law.

"by faith in Jesus Christ who fulfilled the law for us" - see and that is the thing, if we walk as he did we also will fulfil the law as he did. There is no disconnect, if correctly understood.



Hi Elijah, the teaching is good because it's old, before the grace-lite-to-go came on the market. But the denomination I do not know or would be interested in, this is the time to overcome all denominations, don't you think?

Why don't you tell us how you see The Law? As Paul said in Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So if Paul was correct, who then is on his side and establishes the law? We always hear, oh watch out...there is the law...please don't touch it. Please don't talk about it...it could be misunderstood. Grace ! Grace Grace ! Ok, I said it now 3 times, maybe someone that is eye to eye with Paul tells us something about the law now, just to keep the balance.
 
well... maybe we arent disagreeing here. but, let me say it like this.

you dont get fruit by focusing on fruit. you can water the branches all day long, it does no good. you get fruit by focusing on the root. you have to water the root. and your root must be love. Jesus gave two commandments for us. in short, these are: love God... love people. Jesus said that on these two commandments were all the law and all the prophets. now, the Bible tells us that the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit. God said He would put His Spirit in us and we would keep His commandments. the Bible also says: He who keeps the Word of God, in him verily is the Love of God perfected.

so... the thing which governs the believer of today is love. it is a growth process... a "washing of the water by the Word." we are not to be conformed to the world but transformed by the renewing of our minds. but just because we stumble, does not mean we are cast out of the family. our new law is Love. Love will pick you right back up. Love said to forgive your brother (if he wrongs you and repents) 490 times a day. would Love ask me to do something it would not do for me? how about the scripture, "Love covers a multitude of sins." We are forgiven in the same way that we forgive. on the same side, some people like to preach mushy love. well, whom the Lord loves, He, corrects, even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.

the point is that we need to stay near the middle of the road. on the one hand you have people who twist the Word and use grace as liberty to sin. Grace is liberty to be a son. on the other hand you have people committing adultery with the law. (read romans 7:1-6... right before the scripture everyone quotes. if you are alive with Christ and try to run over and fulfill the law, that is adultery.)

we cant fulfill the old the law. we would need the Temple, we would need animal sacrifice, we would need to fulfill not just the big parts of the law... but every drop of it. we would need a Levitical priesthood. we would need all kinds of other stuff....

but in this new creation, we are the Temple. Jesus was our sin sacrifice. we have another sacrifice of thanksgiving. Love is our law. so focus on the root: Love. not the fruit. the fruit will come.
 
Geo said:
Hi theTruthful: the emphasis of this is not to get in "bed with the law" but to show what the emphasis of the false gospel is at time of the end. That is based on a 'grace' that is in bed with lawlessness. Most people never understood the correct meaning of God's law.

"by faith in Jesus Christ who fulfilled the law for us" - see and that is the thing, if we walk as he did we also will fulfil the law as he did. There is no disconnect, if correctly understood.



Hi Elijah, the teaching is good because it's old, before the grace-lite-to-go came on the market. But the denomination I do not know or would be interested in, this is the time to overcome all denominations, don't you think?

Why don't you tell us how you see The Law? As Paul said in Rom 3:31  Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

So if Paul was correct, who then is on his side and establishes the law? We always hear, oh watch out...there is the law...please don't touch it. Please don't talk about it...it could be misunderstood. Grace ! Grace Grace ! Ok, I said it now 3 times, maybe someone that is eye to eye with Paul tells us something about the law now, just to keep the balance.
Psalms 77:13 Is Gods Way + Church & Acts 7:38 finds CHRIST IN IT!
Matt. 18 first & in part.. The True CHURCH IS ETERNAL REQUIRED GOSPEL. Rev. 14:6


[15] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
[17] And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
[18] Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
(and if you don't agree with Christ? you are your own fate maker! Obad. 1:16)

OK: Now comes the Truth about the True Church & how satan tries to take it over! Christ IS THE ROCK THAT HIS CHURCH IS BUILT ON. But the thought here is that he comes at Christ's Church with all kinds of perversions & counterfeits. Today we see not only romes satanic stuff, but also Korah satanic 'go it alone' stuff of Isaiah 14:12-14 I,I,I,I,I am equal to God's leadership!! (or above, huh!) But this below is more of Christ's Words of Matt. 16:15-19 also, & then on to satan's Korah's Go it alone stuff!


[15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
[16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
[18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon [this rock] I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
[19] And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And there are to be only TWO Church Folds at the END. Christ's True Virgin ones that the 'Gates of hell [SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST], plus the GATES OF sATAN's HELL THAT WILL TRY TO PREVAIL against it! (Dan. 7:25 + Rev. 12:17 repeat. In Rev. 17:5 we see the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH including all of satan [LOST] crew.. daughters as well. And in Rev. 3:16-17 we see Laodicea being SPEWED OUT to join these ones now called the Synagogue (CHURCH) of satan. And ONLY these ones are mentioned here in verse 10 who are kept from this 'hour of temptation that is to try the whole world'! These ones are this last ORGANIZED CHURCH of Philadelphia that the Gates Of Hell Wil Not Prevail Against! This Church REMNANT (again Rev. 12:17) will FINISH up very quickly Christ's Church work for Earth's unwarned ones with the 666 mark of satan. All others are now without the Striving of the Holy Ghost & these host of lost ones are the ones of Rev. 17:5 + Rev. 3:9 who still profess to be 'c'hristians. Christ/less they are! And now will need the power of Caesar to do satan's Gen. 4:7 [DESIRE]. As was Cain, satan was a murder from this beginning! (representing the Sin Against Ghost & the SECOND ETERNAL DEATH!)

Overthrow?? satan's men of Gen. 4:7. satan always has a counterfeit. Just some of the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 'Documented repeats of satans stuff. Yet, NEVER think that Christ does not REQUIRE HIS CHURCH ORDER, just because of satan FLAWED COPY!

Num.16 (in part)
[1] Now Korah, the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On, the son of Peleth, sons of Reuben, took men:
[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:

[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

OK: Today we have satan using these verses against God, and then using then for his GARBAGE! In other words these men have said what? If you do not know what is taking place of these forums of these GO IT ALONE ones, you are BLINDER THAN ROME! Read it again! Separate followers of who Korah (satan) says?
Now: Here comes satan's Church using the same satanic stuff for his garbage.. of ONLY ONE CHURCH (living in BLASPHEMY) and all the Korah's are the PROBLEM! And you can be sure that this lone ranger started out in heaven's REBELLION as a 'LOOSE CANNON!'

[4] And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
[5] And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the LORD will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
[6] This do; Take you censers, Korah, and all his company;
[7] And put fire therein, and put incense in them before the LORD to morrow: and it shall be that the man whom the LORD doth choose, he shall be holy: ye take too much upon you, ye sons of Levi. (HELLO!)
[8] And Moses said unto Korah, Hear, I pray you, ye sons of Levi:
[9] Seemeth it but a small thing unto you, that the God of Israel hath separated you from the congregation of Israel, to bring you near to himself to do the service of the tabernacle of the LORD, and to stand before the congregation to minister unto them?
[10] And he hath brought thee near to him, and all thy brethren the sons of Levi with thee: and seek ye the priesthood also?

[11] For which cause both thou and all thy company are gathered together against the LORD: and what is Aaron, that ye murmur against him?

And what happened is there as well to read. You can go read it??

But bottom/line!
Christ is the Church CENTERPIECE of the Seven Candlesticks with just 3 extending from His two sides! [HE IS LIGHT OF THE WORLD] with the others the same on conditional Eternal Covenant of Heb. 13:20. (IF FAITHFUL! Rev. 2:5 )

So all are UNITED. Just these two camps! Matt. 6

[22] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
[23] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

satan has huge 'doctrinal' mix/ups among most!
A shaking must come God says! satan says that the church stays put (rome is his church) & the tares are shaken out!
But who left whom in Christ day??? The OPEN KILLERS stayed put in the Christ/less ex/fold! (see Isa. 5:3)
Then comes being UNITED! God gives the above Truth! satan says that we are to see another such UNITING! You must join my fold!! [FORCED WORSHIP of only taking my mark of REBELLION AGAINST GOD] These ones will all be United! Rom. 13 will be worn out with satans ones quoting these misunderstood verses against the God Fearing UNITED ONES! That is the FINAL TESTING! Exodus 16's one. Simply put?? 'IF YE LOVE ME!!! KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS' (Commandments OF GOD, and the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST! Rev. 12:17 See Mal. 4:5-6!

---Elijah
 
Very profound conclusion Elijah. So profound that it knocked me out for a day. It's prophetic and shows us the end from the beginning.


Let me add a few simple quotes that I found regarding that gradual shift into lawlessness (or Antinomianism)

A.W. Tozer defined it this way. "Fundamental Christianity in our times is deeply influenced by that ancient enemy of righteousness, Antinomianism. The creed of the Antinomian is easily stated: We are saved by faith alone; works have no place in salvation; conduct is works, and is therefore of no importance. What we do cannot matter as long as we believe rightly. The divorce between creed and conduct is absolute and final. The question of sin is settled by the Cross; conduct is outside the circle of faith and cannot come between the believer and God. Such in brief, is the teaching of the Antinomian. And so fully has it permeated the Fundamental element in modern Christianity that it is accepted by the religious masses as the very truth of God. Antinomianism is the doctrine of grace carried by uncorrected logic to the point of absurdity. It takes the teaching of justification by faith and twists it into deformity."

"I know there are some (maybe you, dear reader) who might say, "That's the gospel! That's Grace! That's what I believe and practice!" Oh, if we would only take the time to seek God, pray and read the Gospel, unfettered by the "Doctrines of Men", we would surely find that Antinomianism is ANOTHER GOSPEL (i.e.- not Christianity)."


From "The Antinomians are Coming":

WHY DO ANTINOMIANS EXIST?

Antinomianism is an entire doctrine built on religious confusion, or, more precisely, a complete lack of understanding concerning God's "Conditions". Sad to say, its root cause goes even deeper than misunderstanding "conditions". The main battle isn't really between bumbling heretics and those who understand God's "conditions" - it's between humanism and Christianity.

Humanism

Humanism is summed up as this: the end of all being is the happiness of mankind. Its focus is on two words: 'happiness' and 'mankind'. Therefore in humanism, everything a person does is centred around humanity's happiness here on earth.

Christianity

Christianity can be summed up as this: the end of all being is the glory of God. Its focus is on two words: 'glory' and 'God'. Therefore in Christianity, everything a person does is centred around what pleases God, nothing less! This is why Jesus could say to his close friend and disciple, "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men"; and "Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven" and "If any will come after Me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow Me" (Matt. 16:23, 7:21, 16:24). Do you see? The entire focus is on God and His glory, not man.

Let's Get Together and Make Peace (on earth)

At the root of Antinomianism is humanism with a little Christianity mixed in, for good measure. How's that? Instead of pure humanism, which is focused solely on man's earthly life, this mixture looks like this: The end of Antinomian "Christianity" is the happiness of mankind both on earth and in heaven. Notice that it STILL focuses on the same two words that humanism does: 'happiness' and 'mankind'. The only difference between humanism and Antinomian Christianity is this: mankind's happiness has been extended beyond the grave. Does this mean that real Christians aren't happy? No! However, they take their happiness in bringing glory to God, by doing only what pleases Him, never themselves. This usually goes over the head of an Antinomian.

It shouldn't be a surprise to learn that in Antinomianism, like humanism, everything the Church does (especially those in leadership) is centred around humanity's happiness. This is the root of Antinomianism. Once we understand this, everything else that puzzles us about ourselves, &/or our Antinomian friends, will disappear: i.e.-the lack of heart motivated obedience to Christ; the struggles against giving up basic, elementary things like TV, worldly videos, sports, dancing, smoking, worldly music, worldly friendships, etc.; the lack of interest in personally reaching the lost; and the strong attachment to, and love for, this present world. This is why, when the subject of God's "conditions" for salvation comes up, for an Antinomian, it does not compute. Because an Antinomian's beliefs are rooted in humanism, when they hear the real Gospel, they think it's heresy or some strange "Cult".


http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/ant ... oming.html
 
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