When We Die

[elijah23]

I think you’ll find that we all pass on to the resurrection when we die. The resurrection is not heaven. The resurrection is a place. Heaven is the bliss you feel when you live a righteous life.

 

[Alabaster]

I think you’ll find that we all pass on to the resurrection when we die. The resurrection is not heaven. The resurrection is a place. Heaven is the bliss you feel when you live a righteous life.

What is the scriptural proof for your opinion?

It would be a good thing to study about Heaven in the Bible. Jesus tells us about it, for one. It isn't any feeling of bliss. It is the place where God dwells. It is where we who are righteous go when we die.

Resurrection is a particular event in time that has yet to occur where the dead in Christ receive their glorified flesh bodies. Until then all the righteous dead pass into Heaven in their spirit bodies.

There are innumerable mentions of Heaven in scripture. You cannot deny it is a literal place.

Matthew 16:17 NLT
Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.

Matthew 18:3 NLT
Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 18:18-19 NLT
18 “I tell you the truth, whatever you forbid on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven. 19 “I also tell you this: If two of you agree here on earth concerning anything you ask, my Father in heaven will do it for you.

John 14:2 NLT
There is more than enough room in my Father’s home. If this were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you?

Hebrews 11:16 NLT
But they were looking for a better place, a heavenly homeland. That is why God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

Revelation 21:10 NLT
So he took me in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

Matthew 23:22 NLT
And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne.

 

[Eventide]

We're not resurrected when we die... and the scriptures tell us that the whole creation groans and is waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies..

Did you know that the bible says that no man has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who is in heaven.. and HE IS resurrected.. we're not.. not even the dead in Christ.. because Paul says that they (the dead in Christ) will rise first and then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

To say or to imply that the resurrection is past (just saying) is wrong, and Paul says that people who do say this are like a cancer.. because they're denying the literal and future resurrection of the dead.

 

[Mike]

We're not resurrected when we die... and the scriptures tell us that the whole creation groans and is waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies..

Eventide, I always appreciate your input, but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that. I'm not sure anyone has a definitive answer to the point that they can rule out the other understanding completely.

I believe when believers die, they go on to be with the Lord. When Christ returns, their spirits will be reunited with bodies. There might be component of the absence of time that makes the discussion mute, but I believe Scripture speaks to our immediate presence with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5
" 1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 23 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

Philippians 1
"21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

1 Thessalonians 4
"13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."

I'm not going to state this definitively, myself, but this seems quite clear. I don't know how someone can read something into vs. 14 than what it says, but this should be an interesting discussion.

 

[Eventide]

Eventide, I always appreciate your input, but I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that. I'm not sure anyone has a definitive answer to the point that they can rule out the other understanding completely.

I believe when believers die, they go on to be with the Lord. When Christ returns, their spirits will be reunited with bodies. There might be component of the absence of time that makes the discussion mute, but I believe Scripture speaks to our immediate presence with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5
" 1 Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 23 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 We live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad."

Philippians 1
"21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

1 Thessalonians 4
"13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."

I'm not going to state this definitively, myself, but this seems quite clear. I don't know how someone can read something into vs. 14 than what it says, but this should be an interesting discussion.

I agree Mike, it's not that cut and dry.. although with respect to literally resurrected body I believe that it is.. as Christ alone has ascended into heaven as a resurrected man... at least I think.. lol..

No man has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who is in Heaven.. that's scriptural truth and seems more aligned with the bodily resurrected side of things.. not so much as far as our spirit being side of things..

I hope that makes sense..

 

[handy]

I agree Mike, it's not that cut and dry.. although with respect to literally resurrected body I believe that it is.. as Christ alone has ascended into heaven as a resurrected man... at least I think.. lol..

No man has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who is in Heaven.. that's scriptural truth and seems more aligned with the bodily resurrected side of things.. not so much as far as our spirit being side of things..

I'll throw this into the pot...

Matthew 27:51-53: And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Jesus wasn't the only One resurrected on that first morning.

 

[Eventide]

I'll throw this into the pot...

Matthew 27:51-53: And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Jesus wasn't the only One resurrected on that first morning.

Even the OT had men resurrected from the dead.. although I don't believe that this refers to ascending into heaven in bodily form as did the Lord after His resurrection.. because as mentioned, the scriptures do tell us that no man has ascended into heaven but the Son of man who is in heaven...

Definitely interesting.. no doubt about it..

 

[Prince]

We're not resurrected when we die... and the scriptures tell us that the whole creation groans and is waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our bodies..

Did you know that the bible says that no man has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who is in heaven.. and HE IS resurrected.. we're not.. not even the dead in Christ.. because Paul says that they (the dead in Christ) will rise first and then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.

To say or to imply that the resurrection is past (just saying) is wrong, and Paul says that people who do say this are like a cancer.. because they're denying the literal and future resurrection of the dead.

Did you know that the bible says that no man has ascended into heaven but the Son of Man who is in heaven..

I disgaree

The bible says

καὶ οὐδεὶς ἀναβέβηκεν εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν εἰ μὴ ὁ ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ καταβάς, ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου,

And no man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven even the Son of man which is in heaven

Im not sure why you changed the word "even" to "but"?

The scrptiure seems to be telling us that no man went up to heaven - except he first came down from heaven, EVEN "Including" Jesus.. Jesus was in heaven came down and died and went back to heaven.

 

[handy]

Yes, I've often wondered exactly what happened to those who were resurrected before now.

The bible states that it is appointed for me to die once and after death comes judgment...so I wonder if this means they could not have died a second time.

I believe that they could have done the same as Enoch and Elijah, were just taken to heaven. Taken, not ascended...I think there is a difference somehow, and that difference is a key.

 

[Prince]

oops

 

[Eventide]

Yes, I've often wondered exactly what happened to those who were resurrected before now.

The bible states that it is appointed for me to die once and after death comes judgment...so I wonder if this means they could not have died a second time.

I believe that they could have done the same as Enoch and Elijah, were just taken to heaven. Taken, not ascended...I think there is a difference somehow, and that difference is a key.

WOW.. I had forgot about Enoch and Elijah... I think that these would be bodily wouldn't they ?

 

[Prince]

Yes, I've often wondered exactly what happened to those who were resurrected before now.

The bible states that it is appointed for me to die once and after death comes judgment...so I wonder if this means they could not have died a second time.

I believe that they could have done the same as Enoch and Elijah, were just taken to heaven. Taken, not ascended...I think there is a difference somehow, and that difference is a key.

Hello Handy

When a man dies the parable of Lazarus tells us that there is judgement - based off the simple fact someone (God) determined which side of the gulf "chasm" would Lazarus and the rich man go.....

 

[handy]

Hi Prince! Nice to have you here. :waving

And perhaps the key is also that maybe Paradise (Abraham's Bosom in the tale of Lazarus and the Rich Man) is different from heaven and those dead and resurrected are there.

 

[Eventide]

We also know that when Peter preached at Pentecost that he made reference to David's grave and that it existed to this day... and this was after the death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Christ into Heaven.

We also know that the Paul warns of preaching that the resurrection is past.. and I think that it's a future event..

But Enoch and Elijah don't seem to fit since they WERE taken and I would associate that with bodily.. but then again.. flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.. but how about flesh and bone.. which the church is said to be.. not that Enoch and Elijah were members of the church.. lol

 

[Alabaster]

Those few who were resurrected from their graves at the same time as Jesus' moment of death were not translated to Heaven. They were simply raised to life like Lazarus, but eventually died a physical death again.

 

[Prince]

Hi Prince! Nice to have you here. :waving

And perhaps the key is also that maybe Paradise (Abraham's Bosom in the tale of Lazarus and the Rich Man) is different from heaven and those dead and resurrected are there.

Hey there

DO you believe "Heaven" and "paradise" is the same thing ?

Where do you belive Jesus went when he died?

 

[Alabaster]

Paradise is indeed Abraham's bosom, that place in Hades, that compartment of the righteous dead, those who were considered righteous by God, who put their hope in a coming Anointed One.

 

[handy]

Hey there

DO you believe "Heaven" and "paradise" is the same thing ?

Where do you belive Jesus went when he died?

Well, nothing hard and fast here, because I don't think that there is enough in the Scriptures to say definitively but....

I actually think that Paradise is the Garden of Eden. Revelations 2:7 states: 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

And also, Revelations 22 also says: "Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

I think that Paradise is the Garden of Eden, still protected by the angels, and that it is some kind of interface, if you will, with heaven. Last I heard, the Tree of Life was in the Garden, as was a river.

Alabaster...I just wonder if them dying again would conflict with the fact that it is appointed for men to die once, and after death comes judgment. Can a man die twice? Do the Scriptures record the deaths of anyone who had been resurrected once from death?

 

[Drew]

Hello Handy

When a man dies the parable of Lazarus tells us that there is judgement - based off the simple fact someone (God) determined which side of the gulf "chasm" would Lazarus and the rich man go.....

I suggest that the parable of the rich man is not a teaching about the nature of the afterlife. Jesus is using a metaphor to make an entirely different point about the leadership of the nation of Israel.

We know this is a parable not least because the characters are represented as having bodies - something we know will not be the case until Jesus returns.

 

[Prince]

I suggest that the parable of the rich man is not a teaching about the nature of the afterlife. Jesus is using a metaphor to make an entirely different point about the leadership of the nation of Israel.

We know this is a parable not least because the characters are represented as having bodies - something we know will not be the case until Jesus returns.

Where do you believe the people that have died are at this moment?