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When were the gospels written?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Asyncritus
  • Start date Start date
Whatever makes you think so?

Don't you think Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham and all the rest of them could write?

And if they could, why didn't they?

Have a look here: http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp

Greetings Asyncritus,

In the article that you mention, the author states:
We’ll try to show in this little chapter that there’s considerable internal evidence, and some archaeological evidence, that Genesis was actually first written in sections, most likely on clay tablets, by a number of different men who were eye-witnesses to the actions described. These men signed their names at the bottom of their respective tablets, and later Moses compiled these tablets into what we call the “book of Genesis.”

He later states:
All of what I’ve written above is from textual evidence, not from physical remains.

There is some supposition here based on the phrases found in Genesis, "These are the generations of...". The author of your articles makes these phrases to be ending signatures of the authors??? Because Genesis says, "these are the Generations of..." we are to believe that denotes authorship and that Moses didn't write but only compiled? The end of your article states that this theory "adds authenticity". I don't believe that is the case. The bible is the living word of God and has sufficient authority such that we do not need to strive to add more.

Cordially,
Michael (Sparrowhawke)
 
30 to 70 AD

Much of its written in past tense, as if a long expanse of time transpired before it was committed to writing. You get a lot of phrases like "In those days" that gives you the impression it isn't speaking of current events. My guess is the disciples or people who knew the disciples wrote it down well after the fact so that word of mouth teachings wouldn't be forgotten.

The earliest copies of the Gospels in existence date to around the 3rd or 4th century.

Some say the Gospels being written after the destruction of the second temple by Titus in 70AD would invalidate Christ's prophecies as post-diction. That's not really important to my faith and not really the reason I believe in Jesus though. I was never impressed by preachers who who fixated on fulfilled prophecy, and I think its a weak pretense for being a Christian. It could have been written down before the fall or after. There's really no way to know. I try to remain intellectually honest on these things.
 
Never a man spake like this man...

I certainly didn't trust in the holy scriptures because of a certain 'time stamp' which somebody may have placed on them.. but rather simply because of the content itself..

Never a man spake like this man..

OR

Come see a man who told me all things ever I did..

The word of God is living and powerful and effectual.. it's miraculous to say the least. Its voice is just as living and powerful today as it was when first scripted. Scholars can say all they want about it.. it doesn't change a thing for those who have been born again by its incorruptible seed.
 
30 to 70 AD

Much of its written in past tense, as if a long expanse of time transpired before it was committed to writing. You get a lot of phrases like "In those days" that gives you the impression it isn't speaking of current events. My guess is the disciples or people who knew the disciples wrote it down well after the fact so that word of mouth teachings wouldn't be forgotten.

The earliest copies of the Gospels in existence date to around the 3rd or 4th century.

Some say the Gospels being written after the destruction of the second temple by Titus in 70AD would invalidate Christ's prophecies as post-diction. That's not really important to my faith and not really the reason I believe in Jesus though. I was never impressed by preachers who who fixated on fulfilled prophecy, and I think its a weak pretense for being a Christian. It could have been written down before the fall or after. There's really no way to know. I try to remain intellectually honest on these things.

Please don't misunderstand me.

My faith is no longer assailable by these people and their theories.

My concern is for those people who may (as I did) pick up one of these ghastly books by some professor XYZ, read it, and think, 'Hey, if half of what that guy is saying is true, then much of the gospel/ NT/OT is a pack of lies. So I'm off to find something more dependable'.

Or words to that effect.

Those are the people I'm writing this for - and hope that if they come across something like this (see those quotes above in my response to Free), they may remember some of this, and may remember to ask some hard questions of the person/s proposing such theories.

Those readers who are going into theological colleges, seminaries, universities, are particularly exposed to it, and may make shipwreck of their faith because of the authoritativeness such destructive material is put forward.

Then they will go forward, and teach others the same things. That would be a pity.
 
Some of this thread reminds me of when I was a member of a denomination and thought surely the preacher could not be wrong because after all he was educated in a seminary. I put my trust in that --- until I read my Bible seriously.
 
Some of this thread reminds me of when I was a member of a denomination and thought surely the preacher could not be wrong because after all he was educated in a seminary. I put my trust in that --- until I read my Bible seriously.

Another amen on that one.
 
This opinion of yours is very distressing Free.

You are abandoning your birthright of free thought and handing the keys of your kingdom over to 'scholars'. As I quoted a few posts back, some of them are intentionally pretty vile as far as inspiration is concerned..

Maybe not all - but when there are several great big dirty rotten apples on the top of the barrel, how are you going to tell how deep the rot has gone?

And why would you pin your confidence on the idea that they are all as pure as the driven snow?

If you were a gambling man, you'd lose your shirt on this one, that's for sure.
Please read what I've written and do not misrepresent me. Nowhere have I ever even implied that we should abandon thinking for ourselves, nor have I ever implied that scholars "are all as pure as the driven snow." But I must ask why it is that you seem to think you are so much better than they?

Asyncritus said:
My reading of them is that they spend their time reading and re-hashing what other 'scholars' have written, not in reading scripture.

Look at any major commentary written by a single scholar. Tell me, how can anyone produce 10 volumes (or more in the case of Barnes) of print, from his own personal study of the Word?

One lifetime would not be enough to do so.
Just because you cannot do so nor understand how they can, does not mean that they can't. Do they rehash? Sure, why not? If they are rehashing, then it is likely they indeed have studied the issues for themselves and come to a conclusion, one which happens to agree with others. If someone agrees with someone's understanding or opinion of a matter, then there is no problem in rehashing what others have already said.

But, to be clear, this doesn't mean that in every instance one has thoroughly studied a matter. But neither have you nor I.

Asyncritus said:
So he reads, and rehashes others' opinions. And if those opinions are wrong, then we get a rehashed chunk of error. How can you discriminate between fact and fiction?
And how do you? You clearly prefer your own, single opinion over the myriad opinions of highly learned and knowledge scholars. I read many opinions on a topic, consider what I've heard in sermons, consider my own studies, think through it all and pray.

You use many Bible translations in your studies to come to a conclusion, why not consider the many studies of scholars who just might, and likely do, have more significant things to say that you haven't even thought of? No Christian should ever so easily dismiss the insights, wisdom and learning of others. A strong case could be made to show just unbiblical that is.

Asyncritus said:
I depend on scholars for their translations of the Bible, since I don't know enough Greek and Hebrew to attempt to generate my own translations.

But I don't trust any single one or committee - and so I use the Online Bible and its 10 or so translations when I form my opinions. They can't ALL be wrong. Or so I suppose, anyway.

A translation has opinions in it - and that can't be avoided, but between 10 of them, an accurate idea of the meaning of the text is possible. So for that I'm grateful - but for no more than that.
Well, there you go. I agree with you on that and do the same. However, there is a significant amount more to be gleaned from the Greek and Hebrew, not to mention other historical documents and other resources that you and I do not have access to.

Asyncritus said:
Free said:
I would also suggest, as I have done in the past, that scholars are are gifted by God for what they do, and as such, many are given to the Church as teachers. To not listen to them is to not accept them as teachers appointed by God.
You're not thinking clearly. Just read the following, and tell me if any of these would be allowed on this forum:
My thinking is fine. Please read carefully what I have written. Generally I try to be quite specific with my wording to avoid having people come to the wrong conclusion about what I'm saying.

I stated that all scholars are gifted by God, as everyone is for doing certain things. I then stated that "many are given to the Church as teachers" because not all are teachers for the Church, only those who are Christian. Not all biblical scholars are Christian, there is no denying that, but there is often something we can learn from all of them.

The main problem is an error in your reasoning known as the hasty generalization. You are taking the problems of relatively few and applying it to all.


Anyways, all this talk of scholars is off-topic, and seeing as how you are making a mountain out of a molehill regarding the dating of Scripture, I will bow out. I stand by what I stated in my first post:

"When the four canonical gospels were written is, for the most part, irrelevant. What is relevant to their timeline is that all four were accepted as Scripture in the early church and that they were written well before any of the so-called Gnostic gospels."

I should have listed to myself and not posted anymore. :bigfrown
 
And in so thinking, the 'scholars' establish quite clearly that they don't live in the real world.

As I said before, and this basic, simple, elementary, rudimentary point does not seem to occur to their monumental intellects: would you not write SOMETHING down about the most stupendous events in the history of the world AS AND WHEN they happened?
This seems rather implausible.

You are making the suggestion that all these scholars are incorrect. It seems rather unlikely that accomplished scholars - such as NT Wright who has spent a lifetime studying the Bible and believes the gospels were written "late" - have all erred and that you, a layman, are right.

You do realize how difficult this is to believe, don't you?

Besides, your argument that the material would have been written down "as the events happened" clearly begs the very question at issue.

If it were so obvious that this would have been done, why have generations of serious scholars not reached the same conclusion you have reached?

What plausible explanation can you give as to why so many serious, trained, and respected scholars, have erred on this matter?
 
Some of this thread reminds me of when I was a member of a denomination and thought surely the preacher could not be wrong because after all he was educated in a seminary. I put my trust in that --- until I read my Bible seriously.
I am not sure I understand your point - you appear to be dismissing the qualifications of scholars and basically saying that laymen are just as qualified to make complex, historical determinations as are scholars.

That seems awfully presumptive.
 
There is word in type on pages and there Is Living Word garned into the heart from Word in type on pages and Spirit.

Scholars of the historical and scientific kind 'usually' have zero respect for the combination and totally ignore the later for the most part, which same the Living Word will point to for recognition of the vital missing Living component.

s
 
Not so "presumptive" when you compare many denominational preachers "presumptive" teachings (which most have gleamed from their theological schools) with what the Bible clearly teaches. :-):-)
 
I am not sure I understand your point - you appear to be dismissing the qualifications of scholars and basically saying that laymen are just as qualified to make complex, historical determinations as are scholars.

That seems awfully presumptive.
I've not seen any conclusive evidence to support the idea that the gospels were written hundreds of years after-the-fact, nor do I believe that they were fabricated to make it look like they were eye-witness accounts. Those scholars, no matter their qualifications, that say that the bible is composed of lies or deception are wrong.

Regarding laymen who know the truth even in the face of what scholarly opposition may allege: it is more than remarkable that our God chooses the low to better demonstrate His glory. Yes, even laymen can be given the truth.

Although the Holy Spirit has all the characteristics of God, He has specific roles and functions in our lives. In John 16:13, we see the Spirit of Truth as our guide: “Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come.â€

In John 14:26, we learn that the Holy Spirit is our Counselor and teacher: “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.â€

In 1 Corinthians 3:16, we see that the Holy Spirit lives inside us: “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?â€
 
Whatever makes you think so?

Don't you think Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham and all the rest of them could write?

And if they could, why didn't they?

Have a look here: http://www.trueorigin.org/tablet.asp
oral traditions of the jews. thats why. the jews the same bunch of guys that i happened to be descended from. but that alone doesnt mean im in the now

the jews also handed family genealogies by oral tradition all by memory.


theres alot the gentile church doesnt know about the law, theres a whole culture that was behind the old testament.

and if you notice why would adam care about the seventh day? he wasnt made to do the sabaath.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2056/jewish/The-Oral-Law.htm

as you can see with the torah.with the law like we do today that had cases that made decisions and often they repeated so if a similiar situation arose they wanted to be able to know what to do.

the bible we havent doesnt tell you that at all. its by reading up on judaism have i learned this.

there was a whole argument of sages going when the the lord came and he quote them he didnt for the eye for the eye thing

say for its is written he said for ye heard it said..

he was quoting the rabbinical thought of shimei.

and correcting him like the rabbis would(that is why the jews say never speak a man with his authority!)


hmmm point made
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1269920/jewish/History-or-Memory.htm
It has been said that there is no word for history in the Hebrew language.
(The modern Hebrew equivalent, historia, is a word-lift from the English history, which was pinched from the Greek historia. What goes around, comes around . . . )
The absence of a word as central to any nation as “history†is striking. It’s probably because there’s no such thing as “history†in Judaism.
Zikaron (memory), however, a distant cousin of history, features prominently in biblical language and thought.
It goes far beyond semantics, cutting straight to the core of Judaism’s perception of the past.
You see, “history†is his-story, not mine. The first two letters of “memory,†however, spell me.
Memory is a part of me, and history, apart from meWithout me there is no memory. Memory is a part of me, and history, apart from me.
Put differently: History is made up of objective facts, and memory of subjective experience.
As you might have guessed, Judaism is less interested in dry facts than in breathing experiences.
It is for this reason that much of Jewish tradition and ritual draws on reenactment. We don’t just commemorate, we remember. We don’t just recount someone else’s story, we relive our own.
A few examples:
Much of the Seder curriculum aims to stimulate feelings of slavery and bitterness (e.g., the salt water, bitter herbs, poor man’s bread—a.k.a. matzah, and so on), as well as royalty and liberty (four cups of wine, leaning on cushions, and the like).
In fact, in certain Jewish communities, the seventh night of Passover (the night the sea split for the Jews) finds many walking through pails of water to recreate that event.
On Shavuot we stay up the entire night in anticipation of the giving of the Torah on the morrow, and children are brought to synagogue to hear the Ten Commandments from G‑d.
He’s not just the G‑d we heard about, but the G‑d we heard fromIn fact, Judaism teaches that, in soul, we were all present at Sinai;1 each one of us personally encountered G‑d. Consequently, G‑d is not just the G‑d of our ancestors; He is our G‑d. He’s not just the G‑d we heard about, but the G‑d we heard from.
The divine revelation at Sinai thus distinguishes itself from any other revelation described in other religious traditions. Central to other religions is the belief that G‑d never shows Himself to the masses, to a community of commoners. He speaks only to the prophet, who alone is worthy of divine communion. It’s for the flock to trust implicitly in their shepherd’s account of revelation. Not so in Judaism, which maintains that, indeed, the greatest divine revelation of all time was made accessible to maidservant and Moses alike.
Moreover, even as He spoke to a nation of millions, G‑d addressed each one of them personally. As our sages teach, in His opening words at Sinai, “I am G‑d, your G‑d,†He chose to use the singular form of “your†(elokecha)—the “thy†of vintage English—over the plural possessive (elokeichem).
This was one of the greatest gifts that G‑d bequeathed our people, to include all of us in the Sinaitic display, for it turned our nation’s most seminal event into a living memory, as opposed to a lifeless lesson in history.
Moving along to the ninth of Av, the day the Holy Temple was destroyed thousands of years ago, and a national day of mourning—its customs include eating eggs dipped in ash (just prior to the fast), sitting on low stools, wearing slippers, fasting, and lamenting like it happened only yesterday.
The sukkah transports us to that distant and formative road tripCome Sukkot, and we move into huts for a week to recall the booths we lived in throughout our desert trek. Like a figurative time machine, the sukkah transports us to that distant and formative road trip.
And the list goes on.
The point is, remembering is big in our tradition.
The following discussion seeks to highlight just how big.
The Finale

“Today I am one hundred and twenty years old,†begins Moses’ last homily. “I am no longer able to lead you . . .â€
The end is near, or here.
“Be strong and courageous . . . Do not be afraid . . . for G‑d is going with you . . .â€2
These moving snippets, and the time in which they were spoken, help set the scene and mood of the last public address given by a selfless leader to his (less-than-selfless) congregation.
And these are the words with which he leaves them:
At the end of seven years . . . during the festival on the holiday of Sukkot, when all Israel comes to appear before G‑d, in the place that He will choose, the king should read the Torah before all of Israel. Assemble the people, the men, the women and the minors, and the convert in your cities, in order that they will hear and in order that they will learn, and they shall fear G‑d . . .3
Moses’ final remarks to his people outlined the mitzvah of hak’hel, the commandment obliging all Jews to septennially gather in the Holy Temple to hear selections of the Torah being read by the Jewish king.
Then, following Moses’ talk with the people, G‑d has a final talk4 with him:
You are soon to lie with your fathers. This nation will rise up and desire to follow the gods of the people of the land into which they are coming. They will forsake Me and violate the covenant which I made with them…
Now, write for yourselves this song . . .
Which song, we wonder; and how might a song stop Jews from assimilating?
Maimonides explains:
It is a positive command for every Jewish man to write a Torah scroll for himself, as the verse states, “Now write for yourselves this song,†meaning to say, “Write for yourselves a Torah which contains this song . . .â€5
This mitzvah, for every individual to write his own Torah scroll, is the 613th and final mitzvah to be recorded in the Torah.6 It is the subject of the last conversation between G‑d and Moses that pertained to the people. It must somehow contain a recipe for Jewish survival, an antidote for assimilation.
But what might that be?
If Judaism were taught as a living experience, it would experience long lifeThe single concern on Moses’ mind that day, and later echoed by G‑d in their conversation, was the future of this fragile nation—a future that would become less rosy with time, offering terrible persecution as well as progressive religious challenges.
The solution suggested by both G‑d and Moses was the same:
If Judaism were taught as a living experience, it would experience long life. However, if it were taught as a dead subject, it would, G‑d forbid, be subject to death.
Both the mitzvah of hak’hel and writing a Torah scroll were established to turn the former prospect into reality.
Hak’hel was the reenactment of Sinai. Here’s how Maimonides describes it:
They would prepare their hearts and alert their ears to listen with dread and awe and with trembling joy, like the day [the Torah] was given at Sinai . . . as though the Torah was being commanded to him now, and he was hearing it from the mouth of the Almighty . . .7
Might this explain why of all biblical commands, hak’hel stands alone in obligating (parents to bring their) children,8 including those too young to walk and too underdeveloped to understand, feel or appreciate what was going on around them? The hak’hel experience was not just about the mind, it was about the soul; it triggered the subconscious, not just the conscious. As such, children, who possess as much soul as adults, were present. Somewhere inside their psyche, they reexperienced Sinai.
This also explains why even the greatest sages were present when the king read the Torah, even though they were fluent in what would be read. For this was not a lecture or a refresher course; it was a trip.
Hak’hel was the communal reenactment of Sinai; it made things real againFor a similar reason, it wasn’t the scholar most proficient in Torah who read from it, but the king, “for the king is an agent to make the words of G‑d heard.â€9
A class is best taught by an expert teacher. The awe of Sinai is best reenacted through the presence and word of a mighty king.
In sum, hak’hel was the communal reenactment of Sinai; it made things real again.
But that worked in Jerusalem, in the Holy Temple, once in seven years. How would the other six years, outside Jerusalem, and in the days when our nation would be bereft of a Temple, be charged with living Judaism?
For this reason G‑d gave us the mitzvah of writing a Torah scroll, to be written and stored inside one’s home wherever and whenever they may live, and whose purpose it is to recreate the personal divine encounter we each experienced at Sinai.
Maimonides could not have put it better when he said that when “a person writes a Torah with his own hand, it is as if he received it from Mount Sinai . . .â€
Thus, Moses’ punchline could not have been more appropriate and helpful at that historic moment. Both of the mitzvot he conveyed, and the ideas they represented, were his last and best words of advice to a people facing great odds.
Do more than study Torah and perform mitzvot. Live them, ingest and digest them, experience them—and they will live on.10
What’s in It for Me?

We’re losing numbers, and fast.
Currently, 72 percent of (non-observant) American Jews intermarry.11
Most of those, unfortunately, never received a Jewish education. That’s problem number one.
Some of them did, however, which is problem number two.
If we want to get through to the youth of today, we must shift our educational focus from Jewish knowledge to Jewish experience—Judaism as a lifestyle, not (just) a topic for discussion or a paper.
How often have I heard someone who recently experienced Shabbat, a Jewish holiday or passionate study saying, “I love it, it talks to me, I can’t livewithout it!â€
Perhaps that’s because for the first time in their lives they engaged in living Judaism, not laboratory Judaism.
Or perhaps it was the first time that they felt that Judaism isn’t someone else’s story, but their own.
 
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This seems rather implausible.

You are making the suggestion that all these scholars are incorrect. It seems rather unlikely that accomplished scholars - such as NT Wright who has spent a lifetime studying the Bible and believes the gospels were written "late" - have all erred and that you, a layman, are right.
You do realize how difficult this is to believe, don't you?

You are making some wrong assumptions here, Drew.


I personally have spent over 40 years studying the Bible itself - not the works of 'scholars' etc. That alone qualifies me, in terms of academic time, for several PhDs, DDs and whatever else that's going.

The fact that I would never go into a university to take a theological course - for reasons I have already given - precluded me from obtaining such degrees.

And how would I have obtained such degrees if I went there? By studying, rehashing, rephrasing, the works of other theologians. And a fat lot of good it would have done as far as being a servant of God is concerned.

Oh yes, I can understand that Asyncritus PhD DD LLD MA would impress you far more than just plain Asyncritus. But I draw your attention to the fact that Jesus ben Joseph was just Jesus ben Joseph and not Jesus ben Joseph PhD DD Lld MA either.

Would you have listened to him? Or been saying 'How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?' I can guess which.

Besides, your argument that the material would have been written down "as the events happened" clearly begs the very question at issue.
If it were so obvious that this would have been done, why have generations of serious scholars not reached the same conclusion you have reached?

Because Drew, they are all loaded with preconceptions, prejudices, and as I've shown in those not untypical quotes above, sheer hostility to the idea of the supernatural.

And seized every opportunity they got to savage the Word.

I really wouldn't recommend that you go through the works of Graf Wellhausen and those people quoted above. It would damage whatever faith you've got. But if you did, you would see exactly what it is that I object to so strenuously.

That's why.

Without those preconceptions, prejudices and hostility, they would have reached exactly those conclusions I have reached, and a long time before now. As they haven't done so, I have the privilege of being the first to propose this hypothesis - which I may say, fits all the known facts, and more importantly, honours God and His Son.

That is the purpose, and has been the purpose of my life as a student of the Word: to honour God, His Son, and His Word.


What plausible explanation can you give as to why so many serious, trained, and respected scholars, have erred on this matter?
Because their seriousness, and their training has been based on the preconceptions, prejudices and hostility mentioned above.

Granted, not all of them are like that: but a most
uncomfortable number of them are. I have no way of measuring the numbers, and I wish I could find that quote from NT Wright which I referred to earlier. However, here are other theologians.
[/FONT]

They make me want to be sick.

A large percentage of Western intelligentsia over the past two centuries has rejected belief in miracles such as the bodily resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. And a lot of Christian scholars have agreed.

During the Enlightenment, more and more people came to think that belief in divine supernatural intervention in space and time was incompatible with modern science. Nineteenth century liberal theology was, to a significant degree, an attempt to reinterpret Christian faith in light of that fundamental assumption. [The attempt was made by whom, do you think? Yeah. 'Christian' scholars, of course].

No one puts it more pointedly than Rudolf Bultmann, perhaps the most prominent New Testament scholar of the 20th century:
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
It is impossible to use electric lights and the wireless and to avail ourselves of modern medical and surgical discoveries and at the same time to believe in the New Testament world of spirits and miracles (“New Testament and Mythology,” Kerygma and Myth [Harper & Row, 1966]).

[Also note the title of his book!]

Catholic theologian
Hans Kung makes the same assumption:

We tried to understand the numerous miracle stories of the New Testament without assuming a “supernatural” intervention -- which cannot be proved -- in the laws of nature. It would therefore seem like a dubious retrogression to discredited ideas if we were now suddenly to postulate such a supernatural “intervention” for the miracle of the resurrection: this would contradict all scientific thinking as well as all ordinary convictions and experiences. Understood in this way, the resurrection seems to modern man to be an encumbrance to faith, akin to the virgin birth, the descent into hell or the ascension.

The problem in the Christian church today, especially the mainline Protestant churches, is what William Abraham, the Albert Cook Outler Professor of Wesley Studies at the Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University called radical theology. [Async: I wouldn't call it 'theology' myself, but...]

In this theology the incarnation, resurrection, doctrine of atonement and the divinity of Christ are all denied because they affront reason and cannot be proven through scientific investigation.

Radical theology also denies the Christian/Jewish God who created the universe and everything in it
at the beginning of time. and is omnipotent and omniscient. Those concepts cannot be proven by science. so they are rejected.


Whether William Abraham thought the same, I don't know - but this is at least his summary of 'Christian' 'theological' thinking.

Now are you still so keen on the 'Christian scholars'?

And do you understand why I refuse to enter such universities to fill my head with such junk? God forbid.


And God help those poor unfortunates who are going all bright-eyed and bushy tailed to enter 'theological college' and seminaries, and universities. And those who they are going to teach when they emerge.

[FONT=&quot]I fear for them all.
[/FONT]
 
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Many, many years ago I went fishing with an elder in the church. I'll never forget something he said. He commented: "Preachers who get Phd's etc. usually become very liberal in their approach to the scriptures." Down through the years I have observed that to be generally true.
 
Let's keep these posts on topic, please.
 
Scholars of the historical and scientific kind 'usually' have zero respect for the combination and totally ignore the later for the most part, which same the Living Word will point to for recognition of the vital missing Living component.
Quite the claim.

Can you provide any evidence to support it?
 
Quite the claim.

Can you provide any evidence to support it?

You do what? Dispute the intimate connections between the Word and the Spirit of the Word?

They travel together like a horse and carriage. There is always one missing mark in every Dr. and scholar. They never ever ever connect their sin to the devil. It's a typical malady in the supposed 'learned.'

If you happen to find ONE SINGLE SCHOLAR or DOCTOR of theology of any repute who writes of this connection 'personally' applied I would be thrilled to see such work. The common method is 'personal exemption.' And that misses an important mark of the Spirit of Truth.

You see the problem IS, if they admit this as a fact, which fact it IS, no one would listen to them. Therefore in the interests of survival within their units or for financial reasons, that fact will never be served up as a dish of truth in their writings as it can't be for 'worldly' reasons. They must then logically serve worldly reasonings as that is where their bread in the realm is buttered.

Jesus taught the principle. One can not serve God and mammon. The servant of God is not paid in cold hard cash to do so.

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