Where are you in this thinking?

[Willie T]

I'm all for Christians praying for healing, so long as it's sincere, and they do not employ cheap parlor tricks, or exaggerate cases where an adrenaline rush is the most likely answer for why the headache went away. I'm OK with it, so long as we act responsibly, and don't, in the name of 'radical faith', tell people that their healing is 100% sure or certain, and so should throw out their hearing aids or go off of their meds. I've seen, firsthand, way too many botched cases of "divine healing" to ever support any such nonsense.

All that said, however, I'm OK with Christians praying for healing, so long as they're responsible when doing so.

Now, in light of my last "that said", I'm gonna throw in another:

*That said*, even when done "responsibly", it seems to me that we are missing the point behind so many of Christ's miracles when we treat it like a tool for creating a spectacle or as something to validate our ministry and message. When Jesus healed the sick, most of the time it dealt with removing that person's perceived uncleanness in order that they might be assimilated back into society. Religion, with its laws, had presented man with a system through which they could persecute and separate from anyone who was different, and feel righteous and holy for doing so. Those who had the misfortune of contracting leprosy, being born with a deformity, or, much to their own disliking, experienced some sort of bodily discharge, could be ostracized and, in many ways, shunned for religious purposes. The one suffering from mental illness would be labeled a demoniac and, instead of getting the kind of help they needed, would be sequestered off from the rest of society and treated like refuse.

When Jesus comes bringing a message of love, acceptance and inclusion, He also comes bringing healing to those whose illnesses so repulsed the religious that they saw fit to separate from them. Jesus, through His subversive and revolutionary message, began to lay an ax to the root of this system, while at the same time providing the downtrodden with the ability to reclaim a place in society, and with the opportunity to experience the warmth of human love and companionship once more. He, while aggressively opposing the system that treated people this way, also gave the broken their lives back.

Today, healing is often just a gimmick, or something we pray for at the end of a meeting to sort of put a cherry on top of the "Sundae" service. For Jesus, however, it was a revolutionary act that told an oppressive religious system that a Kingdom had arrived that would no longer tolerate exclusion or the bullying of people who couldn't help what they were. To Jesus, healing was, yes, about bringing relief to the suffering, but this was not just physical relief from physical suffering, but emotional relief from emotional suffering. Exclusion hurts, and rejection is processed by the brain the same that physical pain is. When Jesus heals a man with a withered hand, he's not just aiming to help him better hold a no. 2 pencil, but giving him back his place in society, for such a man would have been disallowed from participating in certain normal activities.

Jesus' healing ministry was an act of revolution and rebellion against a system of religious oppression and exclusion, and not just a gimmick.

Wherever there are systems that oppress and ostracize those who are different, you can be sure Jesus will be there, touching "lepers" and healing women with "issues of blood".

(Yeah, this is another of Jeff's thoughts.)

 

[jasonc]

I'm all for Christians praying for healing, so long as it's sincere, and they do not employ cheap parlor tricks, or exaggerate cases where an adrenaline rush is the most likely answer for why the headache went away. I'm OK with it, so long as we act responsibly, and don't, in the name of 'radical faith', tell people that their healing is 100% sure or certain, and so should throw out their hearing aids or go off of their meds. I've seen, firsthand, way too many botched cases of "divine healing" to ever support any such nonsense.

All that said, however, I'm OK with Christians praying for healing, so long as they're responsible when doing so.

Now, in light of my last "that said", I'm gonna throw in another:

*That said*, even when done "responsibly", it seems to me that we are missing the point behind so many of Christ's miracles when we treat it like a tool for creating a spectacle or as something to validate our ministry and message. When Jesus healed the sick, most of the time it dealt with removing that person's perceived uncleanness in order that they might be assimilated back into society. Religion, with its laws, had presented man with a system through which they could persecute and separate from anyone who was different, and feel righteous and holy for doing so. Those who had the misfortune of contracting leprosy, being born with a deformity, or, much to their own disliking, experienced some sort of bodily discharge, could be ostracized and, in many ways, shunned for religious purposes. The one suffering from mental illness would be labeled a demoniac and, instead of getting the kind of help they needed, would be sequestered off from the rest of society and treated like refuse.

When Jesus comes bringing a message of love, acceptance and inclusion, He also comes bringing healing to those whose illnesses so repulsed the religious that they saw fit to separate from them. Jesus, through His subversive and revolutionary message, began to lay an ax to the root of this system, while at the same time providing the downtrodden with the ability to reclaim a place in society, and with the opportunity to experience the warmth of human love and companionship once more. He, while aggressively opposing the system that treated people this way, also gave the broken their lives back.

Today, healing is often just a gimmick, or something we pray for at the end of a meeting to sort of put a cherry on top of the "Sundae" service. For Jesus, however, it was a revolutionary act that told an oppressive religious system that a Kingdom had arrived that would no longer tolerate exclusion or the bullying of people who couldn't help what they were. To Jesus, healing was, yes, about bringing relief to the suffering, but this was not just physical relief from physical suffering, but emotional relief from emotional suffering. Exclusion hurts, and rejection is processed by the brain the same that physical pain is. When Jesus heals a man with a withered hand, he's not just aiming to help him better hold a no. 2 pencil, but giving him back his place in society, for such a man would have been disallowed from participating in certain normal activities.

Jesus' healing ministry was an act of revolution and rebellion against a system of religious oppression and exclusion, and not just a gimmick.

Wherever there are systems that oppress and ostracize those who are different, you can be sure Jesus will be there, touching "lepers" and healing women with "issues of blood".

(Yeah, this is another of Jeff's thoughts.)

.

well that is what the torah was supposed to be, there were limits on certain groups that the cross removed and also the leprosy thing then was for health issues not so much for sin.the Pharisees taught that wrong. a leper equalivent today would be like a man with ebola in church.

 

[twinc]

the crucial point that, it seems, is always missed is that Jesus did not heal and in some cases could not heal especially among His own - go He said " thy faith has made thee whole" - twinc

 

[Willie T]

the crucial point that, it seems, is always missed is that Jesus did not heal and in some cases could not heal especially among His own - go He said " thy faith has made thee whole" - twinc

And even more often is missed the point that a person's faith never healed them,.. They were healed because of whom their faith was placed in.

 

[twinc]

And even more often is missed the point that a person's faith never healed them,.. They were healed because of whom their faith was placed in.

exactly so - btw as regards healing Jesus would have known the before . after and side effects and cancelled them out too unlike the man with a withered right arm that was healed and might go home and strangle his wife - so much for do gooders who would do more good or at least no harm if they slept 24hrs each day - twinc

 

[Willie T]

exactly so - btw as regards healing Jesus would have known the before . after and side effects and cancelled them out too unlike the man with a withered right arm that was healed and might go home and strangle his wife - so much for do gooders who would do more good or at least no harm if they slept 24hrs each day - twinc

I can't really agree with this. Jesus knows, yes. But we don't. So, shouldn't we have the best in mind for each person we meet? I would not like to have God ask me, "Why, did you choose to withhold prayer from some of my children?"

 

[twinc]

I can't really agree with this. Jesus knows, yes. But we don't. So, shouldn't we have the best in mind for each person we meet? I would not like to have God ask me, "Why, did you choose to withhold prayer from some of my children?"

I caution that grizzly bears need to be avoided at all times for they will hug you to death and that only God is good and so give them God as I am trying to do - twinc

 

[for_his_glory]

Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Many walked in darkness until they heard that light (Jesus) start to preach from the mountain that Jesus went up to as He began His ministry, Matthew chapter 5-7. The people were astounded at His doctrine and with the authority Jesus spoke through. Their faith was made whole as they believed and many were healed that day for the great faith they had in what Jesus taught them. This too should also be in us that through faith we are healed as we believe in Gods word and no longer walk in darkness.

Fleshly emotions can be deceiving when it comes to healing when we allow our flesh to get caught up into something that needs to be done in great authority and power of God working through us that speak healing to others. Just as those who came down from that mountain that day and were brought out of darkness and made new again by the light of Christ who forgave them their sin so we should also be made renewed by that same light that the Spirit of God dwells in us and heals all our afflictions.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm not sure how I feel about it, not fully. I know God does heal. My childhood church used to anoint sick people with oil while praying over them, if they requested it. My mom did it once and her kidney stones disappeared.

Once somebody I was fairly familiar with me had me pray over someone while laying hands on them, and told me that God would present me with an opportunity to do that again in the future. It was very awkward, I wasn't sure what to think. But, offline, I'm a "keep my thoughts to myself" kind of person, so I just nodded and was kinda left in a "what was that about?" kind of state.

Someone at my church recently said that if someone comes up to you saying "God told me to tell you", then if it's actually God, you'll know what they're talking about because God will already have revealed something about it to you and hearing it from them is basically something that helps confirm it. If you yourself have not heard from God on what they're telling you, it's probably not actually from God. And while I can't point to scripture to back that up, it makes perfect sense, and would seem to confirm my experience.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not sure how I feel about it, not fully. I know God does heal. My childhood church used to anoint sick people with oil while praying over them, if they requested it. My mom did it once and her kidney stones disappeared.

Once somebody I was fairly familiar with me had me pray over someone while laying hands on them, and told me that God would present me with an opportunity to do that again in the future. It was very awkward, I wasn't sure what to think. But, offline, I'm a "keep my thoughts to myself" kind of person, so I just nodded and was kinda left in a "what was that about?" kind of state.

Someone at my church recently said that if someone comes up to you saying "God told me to tell you", then if it's actually God, you'll know what they're talking about because God will already have revealed something about it to you and hearing it from them is basically something that helps confirm it. If you yourself have not heard from God on what they're telling you, it's probably not actually from God. And while I can't point to scripture to back that up, it makes perfect sense, and would seem to confirm my experience.

The scripture you might be looking for is 1John 4:1-6 that teaches us how to test the spirits that are speaking to us whether in truth or error. When someone tells you "God told me to tell you" it should be words that edify, encourage or comfort you and line up with the word of God. I had a Pastor who gave a prophetic word over me once and said my tent poles were to close. I had no idea what that meant and to this day still don't, but I just blew it off as I didn't know how to test the spirits back then. There was another time I went to hear a well known TV Evangelist and there was a lady sitting in a wheelchair out in the hall that was making some loud weird noises as she had a disability. I asked her mother if I could pray for her and she said please do as no one else was doing anything. I felt led of the Lord to pray for her and when I laid hands on her God was working through me as she became quiet. Before I got a chance to completely pray for this lady staff members came up to me and told me to go back to my seat as I had no right to lay hands on her for that was their job. They had no idea they were quenching the Holy Spirit, but even though I was asked to leave I walked away, but still kept praying. I can only believe God healed that young lady that moment as she was never brought up on stage and prayed for.

There are many that claim they are healers or prophets, but only from their own thoughts and intents and not of God working through them. The Holy Spirit will always confirm when God is moving in us to speak a word or lay hands on someone and those on the receiving end will know in their hearts if it is truly God as God will reveal himself to them.

 

[Deborah13]

Jesus miracles, signs, and wonders were to prove who He was and that His power and authority were Divine.
When His disciples performed the same it showed they had been given authority over certain things, in His name.
ie.
Mar 2:4 And when they could not come nigh unto him for the press, they uncovered the roof where he was: and when they had broken it up, they let down the bed wherein the sick of the palsy lay.
Mar 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mar 2:6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
Mar 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
Mar 2:8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Mar 2:10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

All things done are to bear witness to who HE is.

 

[Willie T]

The scripture you might be looking for is 1John 4:1-6 that teaches us how to test the spirits that are speaking to us whether in truth or error. When someone tells you "God told me to tell you" it should be words that edify, encourage or comfort you and line up with the word of God. I had a Pastor who gave a prophetic word over me once and said my tent poles were to close. I had no idea what that meant and to this day still don't, but I just blew it off as I didn't know how to test the spirits back then. There was another time I went to hear a well known TV Evangelist and there was a lady sitting in a wheelchair out in the hall that was making some loud weird noises as she had a disability. I asked her mother if I could pray for her and she said please do as no one else was doing anything. I felt led of the Lord to pray for her and when I laid hands on her God was working through me as she became quiet. Before I got a chance to completely pray for this lady staff members came up to me and told me to go back to my seat as I had no right to lay hands on her for that was their job. They had no idea they were quenching the Holy Spirit, but even though I was asked to leave I walked away, but still kept praying. I can only believe God healed that young lady that moment as she was never brought up on stage and prayed for.

There are many that claim they are healers or prophets, but only from their own thoughts and intents and not of God working through them. The Holy Spirit will always confirm when God is moving in us to speak a word or lay hands on someone and those on the receiving end will know in their hearts if it is truly God as God will reveal himself to them.

Please tell me you no longer attend those healing services....

 

[for_his_glory]

Willie, no I no longer attend such services as the likes of that one. This was a TV Evangelist (This is Your Day) that came to our area and our Church was asked to be ushers for this. Let's just say my eyes were opened during that service and I will never attend another like it.