Where does the Bible say that it is the Sole Authority?

[unred typo]

huh?

 

[francisdesales]

Francis - please re-read my post. I said that Genesis 1 doesn't give evidence. It states it as fact that God exists. Through the Scriptures it is evident that God does in fact exist.

Upon re-reading it, your post is now unclear to what you actually meant.

God exists WITHOUT Scriptures telling us that. Again, Romans 1 makes that clear - even the pagans have no excuse. Creation makes it clear that a Creator exists.

Scriptures do not prove God's existence. Scriptures are authoritative ONLY to people of faith.

Regards

 

[Vic C.]

I "see" what Joe is saying and I understand the point Paul is making in Romans 1. Creation does indeed make it clear that an intelligent designer; a Creator does exist! It doesn't do anything to reveal the nature of this Creator at all. Only the Bible, God's word; God's way of progressively revealing Himself to His creation, man, is the source of this revelation; this Truth. All else fails in comparison.

 

[cyberjosh]

God exists WITHOUT Scriptures telling us that.

In a sense God is Scripture. Just as is Wisdom (Proverbs 8:22-23) and the Logos (John 1:1-3). Scripture is God in the sense that it is the perfect repesentation of His revealed will, as he did not inspire an imperfect (though no doubt vieled) written word. Thus is says in the Bible: "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth" (Romans 9:17). This was not a slip of the tongue nor a fluke of translation, for it does not say "scripture saith of Pharaoh" it says "scripture saith unto Pharaoh", which here assumes the place of God speaking to Pharaoh. God highly esteems both His words and His name (a theme common in the OT) as His representative. Jesus sums up all of God's words (Scripture), His revealed names (character triats), wisdom, and thoughts/self-expression (Logos & "express image") in Himself, made manifest in the flesh.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[francisdesales]

I "see" what Joe is saying and I understand the point Paul is making in Romans 1. Creation does indeed make it clear that an intelligent designer; a Creator does exist! It doesn't do anything to reveal the nature of this Creator at all. Only the Bible, God's word; God's way of progressively revealing Himself to His creation, man, is the source of this revelation; this Truth. All else fails in comparison.

You are correct. Creation and the human person, the rationale that proves God's existence, can only take us so far. Divine revelation is needed to tell us that God desires a loving relationship with Him. Divine revelation is not limited to written words - that is all I am saying. Clearly, one form of divine revelation cannot contradict with another supposed divine revelation. HOWEVER, one must be careful on determining this "contradiction", and not posit our own interpretation without realizing that words can be interpreted to mean different things to different people.

Thus, the blanket accusation that "that person is not a bible believing Christian" because that person does not agree with one's doctrines really ends up making oneself the judge of the Divine intent of His Word. That has dangerous implications. Even the most "fundamental" Christian does not take every word of the Bible literally, thus, passing the Word of God through one's own interpretation.

Regards

 

[wingnut]

Hi all

We know that the Bible contains the inspired words of God.

If we place the authority of the church (men) above this, we end up with a David Koresh, or Jim Jones situation.

Drink the cool-aid from your local church with caution, but drink the living-waters from your Bible with utter confidence.

 

[francisdesales]

Hi all

We know that the Bible contains the inspired words of God.

If we place the authority of the church (men) above this, we end up with a David Koresh, or Jim Jones situation.

Drink the cool-aid from your local church with caution, but drink the living-waters from your Bible with utter confidence.

Really?

It was the interpretation of Scriptures by men like David Koresh and Jim Jones that led to those situations...

We can also go further back into Protestant history, like the American "Manifest Destiny" and justification of Negro slavery in the US. All from twisted interpretations of the Bible.

The Bible is a wonderful book. It is not a god. It does not protest against those who twist the Bible to fit their own theory of what God is saying.

Regards

 

[Ted]

There are so many things that could be said about the Bible. Where to start and where to end?

The Qur'an and the writings of all the other great faiths claim to be from God as does the Christian Bible. It is a logical fallacy to think that an object such as the Bible can affirm itself. The Bible nowhere claims to be the absolute and inerrant word of God. That is a purely human doctrine.

The Old Testament and here referring to the Torah was put together during the Babylonian exile by religious leaders afraid of losing their traditions. Using multiple oral sources the stories were written down. The rest was added to later on and have been subject to editorialization and redactions.

The New Testament is much more interesting. When it was decided to compile the NT they searched out the oldest documents they could find. None dated back to the original authors. There were many copies of each of Matthew, Mark etc. These were hand written copies which were copies of copies of copies etc. Among all of the documents chosen there were some 400 000 variants. The scholars had to do their best to try to get back to the original writings. Over the years changes were made. Some were mistakes in copying. Some were done to make the language more up to date and some were done deliberately to make the writings say what the early church wanted them to say. "Misquoting Jesus", B. Ehrman.

It is interesting that folks in their zeal will denigrate scholarship but without it we would not have the Bible we have today.

Half of the letters attributed to Paul were not written by Paul but by his followers following his death. This was not an attempt to deceive. It was a commonly accepted practice in those days. As we read the letters in order of writing we find a continual sanitizing of Paul to make him more acceptable to the Roman Empire. An example is that it is well known that Paul had female supporters and preachers yet in the later writings women are told to shut up in church. This was not from Paul.

I could go on but will leave it there for now.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Ted]

If anyone is interested I could talk about the metaphorical-midrashic nature of the Bible.

Now there will be some who will say I am an intellectual Christian only. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am also a Christian mystic.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Heidi]

Can anyone answer this question on authority? And on that note where in the Bible does it say that the Church does not have the Authority?

What other books tells about the life of Jesus? :o It is Jesus whom you worship, iss't it? even atheists complain that there is not other book outside the bible that describes the life and teachings of jesus. So sincde you claim to follow Christ, then why would you look in books written by people who didn't know Jesus at all? :o

Or do you like to read books from people who make up their own stories about what Jesus did that contradicts the eye-witnesses to his life? If so, then why would you believe people who never knew someone over those who knew him the best? :o That's like me interviewing my neighbr to find out about your life. : :

 

[Ted]

Heidi :D

Josephus and Tacitus spoke of Jesus in their work.

As for eyewitnesses there is no one who has written in the Bible who was an eye witness. We have no idea whatsoever as to who wrote the Gospels. The names Matthew, Mark, etc. were appended by later scholars so as to distinguish one from another.

Paul, of course had a mystical experience on the road to Damascus. As to whether or not he actually saw the risen Lord is not clear.

What the gospel writers were doing was writing history remembered and history metaphorized. They were writing what the church had come to believe about this Jesus at the time of writing.

Shalom
Ted

 

[Lewis]

The Bible was put together under the direction of the Holy Ghost, so says Peter. And all Scripture is by the inspiration of God so says Paul.

Heidi :D

Josephus and Tacitus spoke of Jesus in their work.

As for eyewitnesses there is no one who has written in the Bible who was an eye witness. We have no idea whatsoever as to who wrote the Gospels. The names Matthew, Mark, etc. were appended by later scholars so as to distinguish one from another.

Paul, of course had a mystical experience on the road to Damascus. As to whether or not he actually saw the risen Lord is not clear.

What the gospel writers were doing was writing history remembered and history metaphorized. They were writing what the church had come to believe about this Jesus at the time of writing.

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

 

[Ted]

Lewis :D

That is what is written in the Bible. Paul said absolutely nothing about the Bible being the absolute and inerrant word of God. That is a purely human constructed doctrine and is not supported by history.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Ted]

It is a well known point in logic that a thing cannot affirm itself. If that were not the case then I could claim to be God and it should be accepted.

It is not good enough for the Bible to claim it is the word of God. The Qur'an and other sacred texts make the same claim.

In fact there are some 22 000 Christian denominations around the world and many claim to have a handle on the sole truth and everyone else is wrong. There is even a church in Victoria BC that calls itself "The Church of Truth". When I see that sign I have to ask myself which truth?

The simple fact is those who think they have a handle on the sole truth are living in a delusion.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Lewis]

Lewis :D

That is what is written in the Bible. Paul said absolutely nothing about the Bible being the absolute and inerrant word of God. That is a purely human constructed doctrine and is not supported by history.

Shalom
Ted :D

Wait a minute, brother Ted. Now Paul said all Scripture is by the inspiration of God. Now take that word (inspiration) in that particular text, and you will come up, with the Greek words Theo, Nuseros, I cannot remember the correct spelling for nuseros. But anyway Theo means God, Nuseros means Breathed. So Scripture is God breathed, it is His very breath. And as 2 Peter 1:21 says, these men spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost is God. The Bible itself testifies that it is from God. God's prints are all over the Bible. And stuff that could not come from man, himself.

 

[Ted]

Lewis :D

That is not proof that it is inerrant. As I've said before inerrancy is an invention of the reformers.

The Qur'an also claims to be inspired by God. If we take your position than it testifies to itself so it must be from God.

We cannot have it both ways.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Lewis]

Lewis :D

That is not proof that it is inerrant. As I've said before inerrancy is an invention of the reformers.

The Qur'an also claims to be inspired by God. If we take your position than it testifies to itself so it must be from God.

We cannot have it both ways.

Shalom
Ted :D

That is proof to us, but it is obvious that you do not believe, so I will not attempt to try and convince you. Because it would be pointless with you.

 

[Lewis]

And one more thing, the Holy Ghost within us confirms, the Bible is the Word of God. I know, that I know, that I know. And anyone who has the Holy ghost will know. But if you don't. :

 

[Ted]

Lewis :D

That is a sad commentary on yourself.

Shalom
Ted :D

 

[Lewis]

Well Ted, your post and comments, lets me know that you do not have the Holy Ghost. Because to me you have a poor, poor understanding of the Spirit of God. And I am not trying to put you down brother, but that is what I get from you. And I and billions of others know that the Holy Ghost was responsible for the writing of the Bible. And you are just a small number of people who think otherwise' we greatly out number you unbelievers. And there will come a day when you look up and say the Bible is the Word of God. Get the picture ?