Bible Study Where In The Faith Are You?!

[netchaplain]

Where In The Faith Are You?

The presence of law (in general) is evidence to the existence of lawless ones. The resolution to lawlessness is not to instill the desire to obey, resulting from consequences of punishment for disobedience to law, but by instilling the desire for obedience, resulting from union and fellowship with the Lawgiver.

I like how J.B. Stoney allegorizes the concept of varying levels of maturity in the Christian life: “There is such a thing as an Outer Court Christian. There is such a thing as a Holy Place Christian. And there is such a thing as a Holy of Holies Christian.

The Outer Court Christian knows only the truth of sacrifice and cleansing. The pattern of his life is getting soiled, then cleansed; soiled, then cleansed. He only knows the truth of the Alter and the Laver.

The Holy Place Christian has advanced beyond the Laver and has become acquainted with the way of the Father. He has eaten from the table of showbread; he has poured out his heart as incense before the Father. This believer knows of the Father’s provision and guidance, yet he still lives on the shadow side of the veil.

Then there is the Holy of Holies Christian. May God increase their number! These are occupied with the Father and the Son. They are in the position of fellowship, rest and worship. It is the “secret place of the Most High,” where they enjoy intimate union with the Father and His Beloved Son.”

Regardless of the level of maturity in our conforming “to the image of Christ” (Rom 8:29; 2 Cor 3:18), we are “hid with Christ in God” (Col 3:3) as God is always working in us “both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil 2:13).

 

[farouk]

Here's a relevant verse:

"The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day". (Proverbs 4.18)

 

[netchaplain]

Here's a relevant verse:

"The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day". (Proverbs 4.18)

Good stuff Farouk!! May I reply with, "The path" he is directed to walk in and does, is Christ Himself; the way, the truth, and the life - through whose blood, righteousness, and sacrifice he goes to God for grace and mercy, peace, pardon, and acceptance; even for fresh supplies of grace in order to enjoy communion with Him. Who also is the way of salvation and to eternal life and happiness, which path involves duty and obedience." -John Gill

God's blessings to your Family!

For Christ's Sake

 

[Eugene]

Where In The Faith Are You?
I like how J.B. Stoney allegorizes the concept of varying levels of maturity in the Christian life: “There is such a thing as an Outer Court Christian. There is such a thing as a Holy Place Christian. And there is such a thing as a Holy of Holies Christian.

Hi dear brother, we read of three will's of God in Romans 12:2, and three stages of growth in 1 John 2:13 I highlighted in blue below. I pray they are of benefit to you.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[netchaplain]

Thanks for thinking about me Eugene and God's blessings to your Family!

All who are in Christ will unavoidably do God's will, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

 

[Mitspa]

Thanks for thinking about me Eugene and God's blessings to your Family!

All who are in Christ will unavoidably do God's will, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13).

I do like your post and we agree on many things. You have from what I have read, sound doctrine. I do believe many have come out from the law, and have a "form" of godliness but yet live a life that brings no true victory. True faith has works and believes in Gods promises. How can one claim they believe one promise, yet reject the others?
How can one claim they have the "most holy" yet they are as mere men?
No! One who has been conformed has it all! not just words but the power!




1Co 4:20



For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

I see the church in its "powerless condition" as a great stumblingblock to the truth. As one who claims to be a servant of The Lord, how do you see the "will of God" in this area?

 

[netchaplain]

Hi Mispa and God's blessings to your Family!

Thanks for letting me know that you find some encouragement in what I share and I perceive from your post that, not only do you ascertain true certain problems among Christians, it also appears that you also have a concern for their state concerning the Lord's guidance. I want you to know that I was inspired by your reply and wrote an article related to our works in the Lord. It's entitled "My Father's Business" and is posted today.

As to any being a stumbling block, there is accountability only to those who intentionally attempt to hinder others to the truth; which could be evidence of an unregenerate life. I say "attempt to hinder" because that's as far as deception can effect, because truth not found is truth not sought and God will ensure that a Christian will not be deceived concerning truth (Mat 24:24); "He shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand" (Rom 14:4).

Here's to Christians never having to say goodbye but, see you later!

For Christ's Sake

 

[Eugene]

All who are in Christ will unavoidably do God's will, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. (Phil 2:13).

I like how J.B. Stoney allegorizes the concept of varying levels of maturity in the Christian life: “There is such a thing as an Outer Court Christian. There is such a thing as a Holy Place Christian. And there is such a thing as a Holy of Holies Christian.

Maybe I'm not reading you correctly, but it appears to me you are agreeing that there are different levels of maturity in Christ, and though using Philippians 2:13 to say that God works in us to will, and that all will unconditionally mature. Thanks.

 

[netchaplain]

Hi Eugene;

Maturing in Christ, is the same as "to be conformed to the image" of Christ (Rom 8:29). After one accepts Christ, his assurance of eternal life is established; but being saved is only part of God's will for the Christian, in that He's continually conforming us in this life; for closer fellowship in our union with Him, and for our usefulness as His instruments to be effective witnesses.

Christians never stop growing in the life of Christ and will continue to progress from one level of maturity to the next level; "are changed into the same image from glory to glory" (2 Cor 3:18).

 

[Eugene]

Christians never stop growing in the life of Christ and will continue to progress from one level of maturity to the next level; "are changed into the same image from glory to glory" (2 Cor 3:18).

I truly wished I could agree with you. I agree with Christians having eternal life, I agree with the continuing work of God in our lives, but I know that all do not allow the leading of the Holy Spirit to bring fruition of a separation or holiness to their lives.

We read in Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Truthfully this is God's continuing work in our lives to realize this maturity, but there is a subjection required on our part to realize that growth, though it will not consist of works of righteousness to obtain, or keep our salvation, but as an inner court experience Revelation 19:7-8 records the way of the bride; she makes herself ready for that position, and the fine linen is the righteousness, or righteous acts of saints.

Compare them as opposed to those in Christ never taking their place round about and in the throne in heaven; they are before the throne instead as servants. To me this is exactly what J.B. Stoney is expressing though I believe he is expressing our present walk, and I am extending it to our future reward due to our yielding. My thoughts.

 

[netchaplain]

Revelation 19:7-8 records the way of the bride; she makes herself ready for that position, and the fine linen is the righteousness, or righteous acts of saints.

Many Christians still do not "desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby" (1 Pet 2:2), but God is causing a hunger for it in them, because they are His and He will not leave them as is.

As they continue to understand more of the fundamental truths that were not taught to them, they will hunger for more.

For example, it's not common knowledge yet among Christians that there is only one type or strain of righteousness in this life that suffices the Father. Only the righteousness of Christ is acceptable to the Father for our justification, because "all our righteousnesses (plural) are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isa 64:6).

Therefore, the righteousness in which we do stand is Christ's, which is why it is written that "Christ Jesus . . . is made unto us . . . righteousness" (1 Cor 1:30) and is why righteousness is not fulfilled by us, but "in us" - by Christ (Rom 8:4).

It's not "the righteousness of the saints, but "the righteousness of saints", as the KJV renders it (Rev 19:8); because the Lord's righteousness is the saints righteousness--imputed by Him.

All the Godly virtues such as righteousness, holiness, justification, sanctification, etc. are works of God and are imputed; they are non-transferable to man because they cannot be imparted. The legal-minded Christian will not accept this truth and until they do, no spiritual progress will be made.

 

[Eugene]

All the Godly virtues such as righteousness, holiness, justification, sanctification, etc. are works of God and are imputed; they are non-transferable to man because they cannot be imparted. The legal-minded Christian will not accept this truth and until they do, no spiritual progress will be made.

Okay brother, I still do not know if we're saying the same thing or not, but I do agree with much you say, and to me God's imputing Christ's righteousness on the believer in undeniable; He sees us in Christ.

I reckon the only obstacle I run into here is when you admit that some Christians such as "The legal-minded Christian will not accept this truth and until they do, no spiritual progress will be made," we remain declaring the immaturity of certain ones. Do these with no spiritual progress in your mind attain without choice into the inner court as it were? I say they do not unless they change, and they remain babes in Christ. Thanks.

 

[Mitspa]

Okay brother, I still do not know if we're saying the same thing or not, but I do agree with much you say, and to me God's imputing Christ's righteousness on the believer in undeniable; He sees us in Christ.

I reckon the only obstacle I run into here is when you admit that some Christians such as "The legal-minded Christian will not accept this truth and until they do, no spiritual progress will be made," we remain declaring the immaturity of certain ones. Do these with no spiritual progress in your mind attain without choice into the inner court as it were? I say they do not unless they change, and they remain babes in Christ. Thanks.

Hello Eugene and Chaplain, I did not notice the point Eugene made! and I also am not sure of your view? The "Divine Nature" Of God is given to the believer to walk in, by the "Spirit" thus we are commanded to always walk in the "Spirit" and bear the fruits of the Spirit!

2Pe 1:3

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

What is your view?

 

[netchaplain]

He sees us in Christ.

The Father sees us and Christ together. It's the understanding that the idea isn't to get you, the person in your identity out of the way, but the old nature.

It's not all Jesus and no you, as if you are replaced with Christ. We present our selves in the new nature--with the Son and Spirit to our Father for fellowship with all Three.


You asked, "Do these with no spiritual progress in your mind attain without choice into the inner court as it were? I say they do not unless they change, and they remain babes in Christ. Thanks."

I believe I now understand here what you're asking. Until the Millennium, I believe there will always be Christians who will not pass beyond the babe-in-Christ stage concerning understanding the deeper truths of God's Word, but this will not exist in the Millennium.

I believe the only issue concerning the Christians maturity in Christ in this life will be one of "reward" and loss of reward, which will be commensurate with our works. Tho only works which will "abide" (1 Cor 3:11-15) are those which Christ did by us; not what we attempted to do by Him!

The issue for the Christian is not one of eternal security concerning our assurance of salvation, this is our already guaranteed union with God. After being born again the only remaining issue is that of spiritual growth.

Our eternal union with God has been established "For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Rom 11:29 NKJ), and now it's a matter of our fellowship with Him. When we "draw neigh to God, He will draw neigh to us" (Jam 4:8) and this is only done by understanding that everything we stand in is vicariously of Christ, which teaches us not to base our support for salvation in what we do of God but in God Himself.

Mitspa, if this doesn't address your reply, let me know.

 

[Eugene]

I do believe we are together on the most of this, but now you have brought forth a new scenario, and that is the millennium. Would you care to expound that which I highlighted in blue below? Thanks.

I believe there will always be Christians who will not pass beyond the babe-in-Christ stage concerning understanding the deeper truths of God's Word, but this will not exist in the Millennium.

 

[netchaplain]

Hi Eugene, I may have brought the can of worms, but you're the one to open it! lol!! Discussing Revelation is like filler foam. Once you spray the foam it keeps building.

Depending upon one's belief concerning the chronology of the two resurrections (First/Blessed & Saved - Rev 20:4, 5; Second/Judged & Unsaved - Rev 20:11-15)
will determine their comprehension of this book. My understanding is that those who will come forth "unto the resurrection of life" (John 5:29) in the first resurrection (v 4) will precede the Millennium and live with Christ on this old earth during this blessed time; which means nobody, at this time in our eternal condition , will vary in maturity in Christ, because all will be known and enjoyed by all.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Eugene, I may have brought the can of worms, but you're the one to open it! lol!! Discussing Revelation is like filler foam. Once you spray the foam it keeps building.

Depending upon one's belief concerning the chronology of the two resurrections (First/Blessed & Saved - Rev 20:4, 5; Second/Judged & Unsaved - Rev 20:11-15)
will determine their comprehension of this book. My understanding is that those who will come forth "unto the resurrection of life" (John 5:29) in the first resurrection (v 4) will precede the Millennium and live with Christ on this old earth during this blessed time; which means nobody, at this time in our eternal condition , will vary in maturity in Christ, because all will be known and enjoyed by all.

Thank you brother for such a generous and gracious reply, though I differ with your thoughts of the millennium. I believe Jesus will be ruling from His new throne set in heaven according to Revelation 4:2, and that those ruling with him in Revelation 5:9-10 will rule from over the earth, but maybe that's justification for a new thread on the "End Times Forum."

The word translated as "On" the earth can also be translated as "Over" the earth. Certainly those reigning with Christ during the millennium will be full overcomers caught up to be with Him, but there remains those false believers, or pretenders on the earth during that thousand years, because Satan will be loosed from the bottomless pit at the end of the thousand years, will deceive the nations and compass the camp of the saints about in Revelation 20:9. It doesn't appear that all on the earth are too mature at that time.

In any event thanks for your replies. Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Mitspa]

Its good to see two "Christains" who can agree to disagree

 

[netchaplain]

Mitspa wrote, The "Divine Nature" Of God is given to the believer to walk in, by the "Spirit" thus we are commanded to always walk in the "Spirit" and bear the fruits of the Spirit!

Hi Mitspa, I'm not sure what the focus is here that you want to share, so I just want to comment concerning us being "partakers of the divine nature".

I believe this is just stating that Christ's nature is divine. We partake of His nature by way of our new nature because it's created after Him (Col 3:10); ("by way of resemblance and likeness, the new man or principle of grace, being formed in the heart in regeneration, after the image of God, and bearing a likeness to the image of His Son" -J Gill).

Only Deity can possess Divinity so, divinity is only in Christ, who is in us, which means we partake of Christ, but not His divinity; ("not essentially, or of the essence of God, so as to be deified, this is impossible, for the nature, perfections, and glory of God, are incommunicable to creatures; nor, hypostatically and personally, so as the human nature of Christ, in union with the Son of God, is a partaker of the divine nature in Him." J Gill).

I don't know if this is on your subject but wanted to share this.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa wrote, The "Divine Nature" Of God is given to the believer to walk in, by the "Spirit" thus we are commanded to always walk in the "Spirit" and bear the fruits of the Spirit!

Hi Mitspa, I'm not sure what the focus is here that you want to share, so I just want to comment concerning us being "partakers of the divine nature".

I believe this is just stating that Christ's nature is divine. We partake of His nature by way of our new nature because it's created after Him (Col 3:10); ("by way of resemblance and likeness, the new man or principle of grace, being formed in the heart in regeneration, after the image of God, and bearing a likeness to the image of His Son" -J Gill).


Only Deity can possess Divinity so, divinity is only in Christ, who is in us, which means we partake of Christ, but not His divinity; ("not essentially, or of the essence of God, so as to be deified, this is impossible, for the nature, perfections, and glory of God, are incommunicable to creatures; nor, hypostatically and personally, so as the human nature of Christ, in union with the Son of God, is a partaker of the divine nature in Him." J Gill).

I don't know if this is on your subject but wanted to share this.

That was a couple of days ago, but since you have brought it up again
Rom 8:11



But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Gal 5:22



But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23



Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24



And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2Pet 1:4

partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

It seems clear to me Paul and Peter are saying to same thing but just using different words? How do you relate these two? Would You not call the Holy Spirit in us "divine"?