Where is that in the bible?

[stranger]

Indwelling. . .

The are two perspectives here: we are 'in Christ' and 'Christ in us' the hope of glory. But the former is the more prominent. I don't recall the figures but the term 'in Christ' occurs about 100 times, whereas 'Christ in us' has about three occurences (approx. figure) Also coupled with this is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer. Aside from this there is communion with the living Christ. So while many 'invite Jesus into their heart' and have an accompanying and real experience - this can be interpreted and understood by those so inclined - it is the imputing/ imparting of the new nature that transforms and fills with joy and peace. These experiences are real and are more likely the work of the Holy Spirit. From another vantage point - yes being in union with Christ has the affect of having Christ in us and being conformed to the image of the Son.

 

[Imagican]

We were warned that there would come a time that WE would end up worshiping the CREATURE more than the Creator. There is CERTAINLY the possibility that 'alter calls' are a 'sign' that this is 'taking place' in the churches TODAY. For the 'appearance' of alter calls resemble worship of MAN rather than God. They 'appear' to rely on 'faith in MAN' over that of God. That there ARE MANY that will refute this observation is without doubt. BUT, we have NO example of such behavior in the ORIGINAL CHURCH.

JUST like attending a 'concert', there are MANY churches that seem to operate on the SAME premiss; WORSHIP of MEN rather than God. If you KNOW what I am talking about it is OBVIOUS, if you don't, perhaps a deeper LOOK at MUCH of the 'traditional teachings' of the churches would be in order.

And I ask THIS: IS the Bible ENOUGH? Were we given in 'this Word' ENOUGH understanding that is able to 'bring us TO God'? If so, then we NEED no man to 're-invent' The Word, (or ADD to it). If it is NOT enough, then those that believe this have offered that God is impotent in His ability to offer us ENOUGH. For IF it was NEEDED that 'trinity' or 'alter calls' be 'created' AFTER enough was given, then those that 'believed FIRST', before these NEW creations, did NOT have the promise that had been offered.

To introduce NEW concepts and behavior is to believe it possible to 'do it BETTER' than those in 'the beginning'. Through the simple act of exposure WE are unable to live 'as purely' as those of the past. And many will think themselves HOLIER than those of the past by simply FOOLING themselves into such beliefs.

Alter calls 'appear' to BE for the benefit of THOSE THAT CALL THEM moreso than those that answer. A 'psychological' mind game of sorts, designed to 'boost' the esteem of the 'clergy'. No different than the 'way' in which MUSIC is 'used' in the churches of the present. 'Religion' is NOTHING new. Men have been 'practicing it' for thousands of years. And through this PRACTICE, much has been learned of 'human nature' and USED to 'produce' desired effect. Is this 'of God' or 'of man'? The answer is OBVIOUS.

And here's the IMPORTANT question; Why EVEN QUESTION such behavior? IF you NEED to question it: it's MOST LIKELY WRONG. For the 'Spirit' WILL convict the hearts and minds of those that 'truly seek' to understand. So, if one is even ABLE to 'question' certain 'tradition', then that tradtion is MOST LIKELY 'false tradtion' that has NO basis on TRUTH.

IF one happens to be of the persuasion that they NEED to follow 'other men', then they WILL be led by 'other men'. BUT, if one chooses to follow God and His Son, there is LITTLE chance that they will find themselves following 'other men'. I have YET to meet a 'Christian Leader' who didn't THINK that they KNEW MORE than ANYONE ELSE. Yet EACH has 'different' views and understanding. Amazing ain't it?

And, through PERSONAL observation, I have found that WHEN an 'alter call' is announced, MOSTLY the SAME people 'answer' EVERY TIME. This would inidcate 'DE-generate souls' rather than re-generate, for to answer such calls OVER AND OVER again indicates that ONCE is NOT ENOUGH. So WHO benefits from such? Those that ANSWER? God? or those that CALL? Performers USUALLY do so for ATTENTION. For WITHOUT attention the performer has NO WAY to JUDGE their effect on others.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

And, through PERSONAL observation, I have found that WHEN an 'alter call' is announced, MOSTLY the SAME people 'answer' EVERY TIME. This would inidcate 'DE-generate souls' rather than re-generate, for to answer such calls OVER AND OVER again indicates that ONCE is NOT ENOUGH. So WHO benefits from such? Those that ANSWER? God? or those that CALL? Performers USUALLY do so for ATTENTION. For WITHOUT attention the performer has NO WAY to JUDGE their effect on others.

MEC

Interesting observation. I wonder how much truth there is to it. If true, it would appear that the "altar calls" are more for the benefit of the audience, esp. those who are new or just visiting. It also is striking that those who proclaim "once saved always saved" are in need of another "saving". Sounds like the Spirit is disagreeing with the concept and convicting that person of the false teachings.

That is my opinion on your observations.

Regards

 

[Vic C.]

Joe, like MEC said, it is personal observation, not a general practice. I have been going to a SBC church for over seven years now and never witnessed this. The invitation is very personal and usually limited to new Believers. What I have seen are members who have gone down the isle during the invitation for various concerns like prayer or maybe to proclaim a renewed commitment to the Faith, which is not even considered another salvation.

 

[francisdesales]

Joe, like MEC said, it is personal observation, not a general practice. I have been going to a SBC church for over seven years now and never witnessed this. The invitation is very personal and usually limited to new Believers. What I have seen are members who have gone down the isle during the invitation for various concerns like prayer or maybe to proclaim a renewed commitment to the Faith, which is not even considered another salvation.

Vic,

Thank you for your clarification. I have heard, though, that many people do question the idea that their "salvation" took. I don't know, maybe they don't feel that their sanctification is happening quick enough for them, so they become frustrated. I supposed it is normal to wonder or question when things don't happen more quickly, because we are taught that we are a new creation and so forth.

Regards

 

[Vic C.]

Absolutely! We are human and subject to fears and doubts. Unfortunately, the Adversary know this all too well and knows what "buttons" to push. :-? The Adversary is a weasel!!! 8-)

 

[stranger]

Gentlemen,

If you read testimonies of ordinary people like you or me, you will find instances where Christians are sanctified, as John Wesley put it, in a second work of grace. I have explored this and would say that for some it is a third or even a fourth work of grace. But what is described here is not progressive sanctification - it is radically different from that. To those who still believe in progressive sanctification I ask you this: Are you more sanctified today than when you first believed?

Think about these words. . .'heaven came down and glory filled my soul (Crosby)'. Once you have tasted of the heavenlies - everything elsecomes a distant and faint second. The way of holiness is all but forgotten.