Where was the Sabbath Abolished?

[JLB]

Is there a more appropriate thread for discussing this topic?

I have found some things in the Bible that give me doubt.

Welcome to the Forum. Let’s discuss some of the things that give you doubt. Wondering or myself will be glad to start a thread about whatever topic you would like to discuss.


If you like you can PM me or Wondering and we can figure where to make a thread to discuss those things so we don’t derail this thread.

Again, welcome.




JLB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings F345T,

How do we then justify the casting aside of the 4th Commandment today with so much Biblical evidence that it is intended for all Christians, even by Jesus Christ?

The 10 Commandments are a summary of the Law of Moses, and this Law was introduced to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. There are many passages that teach that we are no longer under The Law of Moses. The Law of Moses has been superseded by the Faith of Jesus and the Apostles. Please consider Romans 7 and 8, Galatians 3:19-29, 2 Corinthians 3, the Book of Hebrews and many other passages.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

The 10 Commandments are a summary of the Law of Moses

Actually His Commandments are eternal and did not originate with Moses.

We see them in the beginning as Cain murdered Able and was punished for his transgression.


Abraham learned His commandments directly from the LORD and kept them by faith.


My point:

Because the law of Moses was abolished doesn’t mean His commandments were abolished.


Keeping His commandments are how we express the love of God: loving our neighbor and loving our God.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Keeping His commandments is how we remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24





JLB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JLB,

Because the law of Moses was abolished doesn’t mean His commandments were abolished.

But there were many commandments and laws, and many have been fulfilled. The Sabbath is fulfilled in Christ Matthew 11:25-30 and Hebrews chapters 3 and 4. Do you conform to the "Sabbath Day's Journey" restriction? It is interesting how Paul uses the 10th Commandment in Romans 7.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

Do you conform to the "Sabbath Day's Journey" restriction? It is interesting how Paul uses the 10th Commandment in Romans 7.

The weekly Sabbath points us to the rest to come, when the LORD returns.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings agin JLB,

The weekly Sabbath points us to the rest to come, when the LORD returns.

Yes but Matthew 11:25-30 teaches much more about our present rest in Christ and Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 expand this also teaching additional lessons about the True Sabbath to the Hebrew Christians who were in danger of holding onto only the shadow.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

Greetings agin JLB,

Yes but Matthew 11:25-30 teaches much more about our present rest in Christ and Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 expand this also teaching additional lessons about the True Sabbath to the Hebrew Christians who were in danger of holding onto only the shadow.

Kind regards
Trevor

At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight. All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him. Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:25-30


These verses are indeed talking about rest for our soul.


Concerning the weekly Sabbath, this refers to the rest to come.





JLB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings agin JLB,

These verses are indeed talking about rest for our soul. Concerning the weekly Sabbath, this refers to the rest to come.

There is one united, overall teaching of the Sabbath. Yes, true rest and comfort, free from major anxiety and having our sins forgiven. I suggest that the following is parallel in thought to Matthew 11:28-30 and is also speaking about the lessons of the Sabbath:
Hebrews 4:10 (KJV): For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
This is not only the future rest in the Kingdom, but rest now. This is not speaking about Seventh Day worship in comparison to the remembrance of Christ in the memorials at any time and at any place. The True Sabbath is the true rest and peace in Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

Greetings agin JLB,

There is one united, overall teaching of the Sabbath. Yes, true rest and comfort, free from major anxiety and having our sins forgiven. I suggest that the following is parallel in thought to Matthew 11:28-30 and is also speaking about the lessons of the Sabbath:
Hebrews 4:10 (KJV): For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
This is not only the future rest in the Kingdom, but rest now. This is not speaking about Seventh Day worship in comparison to the remembrance of Christ in the memorials at any time and at any place. The True Sabbath is the true rest and peace in Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

Those who are in Christ and remain in Him, shall enter the rest to come.



JLB

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again JLB,

Those who are in Christ and remain in Him, shall enter the rest to come.

Yes, fair enough, but the question that this thread is trying to address is whether we as Gentile believers in Christ need to celebrate or keep the Weekly Sabbath on a Friday evening to 6pm on Saturday evening. Also as the advocate reddogs of this concept in Post #1 is a SDA I should imagine that he considers that the SDAs are correct and all the other local churches are incorrect.

Say in my immediate area, we have at least a Baptist Church, a Roman Catholic Church, a Church of England, a Methodist Church (or Australian Uniting Church) and a Pentecostal Church. If I was to go past any of these at the appropriate time, these would have some religious service being conducted on a Sunday. I would need to go past the SDA Church some time on a Saturday to witness their religious service. For example if I drive past the Church of England at about 9am on Sunday, about 20 very old members are exiting the Church and the Reverend who is dressed in some colourful apparel is giving them a farewell. The question is, are all the other churches disobeying God, while the SDAs are obeying the Sabbath Commandment? As a consequence, will the SDAs be saved and the others condemned?

Also is Ellen G White correct in predicting that the Great Controversy of the last days will be whether the Sabbath should be kept or not, and the SDAs will be persecuted because of this, but Jesus will return and rescue the SDAs by taking them to heaven and burn the all the non-Sabbath keepers.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JLB]

Yes, fair enough, but the question that this thread is trying to address is whether we as Gentile believers in Christ need to celebrate or keep the Weekly Sabbath on a Friday evening to 6pm on Saturday evening.

The original intent of the Sabbath was for man to take a day of rest during the week, not for man to keep a ridged set of rules.

The weekly Sabbath points to the rest to come.

The rest to come will be on the seventh prophetic day, which is a thousand years lord and begins when Christ returns and gives us rest from our enemies… Satan and those who follow him.

Mankind has been here approximately 6000 years since Adam.

In addition, we will have rest from the struggle between our sinful flesh and our born again spirit man that is filled with the Spirit, because we will receive a new sinless body that shines like the sun and will longer die anymore.


For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36







JLB

 

[reddogs]

Greetings again reddogs,

I consider that the Sabbath was a typical enactment that has been fulfilled in Christ as taught in Matthew 11:25-30 and Hebrews 3:7-4:10 and also to be fulfilled in the 7th 1000 years.

Kind regards
Trevor

But scripture doesn't say that..

 

[F345T]

Greetings F345T,

The 10 Commandments are a summary of the Law of Moses, and this Law was introduced to the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. There are many passages that teach that we are no longer under The Law of Moses. The Law of Moses has been superseded by the Faith of Jesus and the Apostles. Please consider Romans 7 and 8, Galatians 3:19-29, 2 Corinthians 3, the Book of Hebrews and many other passages.

Kind regards
Trevor

A lot of people seem to believe that the Apostles hold authority over the teachings of Jesus Christ, but I find that Jesus' words are the authority.

Jesus created the 10 Commandments, as He created everything. He taught them in multiple places throughout the Gospels and stated in Matt. 23:1-3 that we are to obey what the teachers of the Law said to obey, but not to do as they did - as they taught the 10 Commandments but did not obey them.

He also said in Matt. 5:19-20 that he who obeys and teaches the 10 Commandments (like Christ did [Jn. 15:10]) is greatest in the Kingdom of heaven and that our righteousness must exceed that of the hypocritical scribes and Pharisees if we have any chance of entering the Kingdom.

We also find in Luke 23:54-56 that Christ's closest followers obeyed the Commandments after His death on the Cross. So I have a hard time accepting that Paul, or any other Apostle, taught anything contradictory to these passages. And Acts 21:24 even declares Paul a "keeper of the Law."

 

[reddogs]

Welcome to the Forum. Let’s discuss some of the things that give you doubt. Wondering or myself will be glad to start a thread about whatever topic you would like to discuss.


If you like you can PM me or Wondering and we can figure where to make a thread to discuss those things so we don’t derail this thread.

Again, welcome.




JLB

Some forums have a Sabbath and the Law section where they have for these threads, since most seem to be uncomfortable with them to say the least..

 

[Delete_me]

There is a New Covenant. The Old passed away. If you want to call that "abolishing" the Sabbath, you are welcome to do so. But we ARE under the New Covenant; not the old.

 

[F345T]

There is a New Covenant. The Old passed away. If you want to call that "abolishing" the Sabbath, you are welcome to do so. But we ARE under the New Covenant; not the old.

I'm always interested to hear why people believe Jesus "taught" and obeyed the 10 Commandments.

And then I ask them why Jesus' closest followers obeyed the 10 Commandments after His death on the Cross - because that usually throws their original understanding for a loop. These were not Jews, they were the first Christians. The first followers of Jesus Christ and they knew exactly what He expected of Christians.

Nobody ever has any answer to these questions that makes any rational, logical sense other than to conclude that Jesus taught the 10 Commandments because that is what He expected Christians to do. And John says in 1 Jn. 2:6 that we are to live and walk as Jesus did so that eliminates the silly suggestion that Jesus was simply following some Jewish laws/traditions.

When all else is swiped off the table top so that there is no distractions left, it always comes down to "Well, what did Jesus do?" Are we not followers of Jesus Christ as the term Christian means? Today's Christians have no problem at all following 9 of the 10 Commandments, but they have been taught that the 4th Commandment, the Sabbath, is somehow evil, dirty and ungodly.

Where do we get these ideas when they do not come from the Bible?

 

[reddogs]

I'm always interested to hear why people believe Jesus "taught" and obeyed the 10 Commandments.

And then I ask them why Jesus' closest followers obeyed the 10 Commandments after His death on the Cross - because that usually throws their original understanding for a loop. These were not Jews, they were the first Christians. The first followers of Jesus Christ and they knew exactly what He expected of Christians.

Nobody ever has any answer to these questions that makes any rational, logical sense other than to conclude that Jesus taught the 10 Commandments because that is what He expected Christians to do. And John says in 1 Jn. 2:6 that we are to live and walk as Jesus did so that eliminates the silly suggestion that Jesus was simply following some Jewish laws/traditions.

When all else is swiped off the table top so that there is no distractions left, it always comes down to "Well, what did Jesus do?" Are we not followers of Jesus Christ as the term Christian means? Today's Christians have no problem at all following 9 of the 10 Commandments, but they have been taught that the 4th Commandment, the Sabbath, is somehow evil, dirty and ungodly.

Where do we get these ideas when they do not come from the Bible?

Wow, very true. Christians have been led down the wrong path and are sliding into the wide broad gate rather than the narrow and strait one...

 

[CherubRam]

Christ and the Disciples kept the Seventh Day Sabbath. The first converts kept the Seventh Day Sabbath. The Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday to please the Pagans. The Pagan sabbath is a celebration of the Sun.

First Sabbath Laws
Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.

On March 7, 321, Roman Emperor Constantine I issued a civil decree making Sunday a day of rest from labor, stating: “All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun.”

The Council of Laodicea of around 365 decreed 59 laws, #29:
“Christians must not Judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honoring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be Judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.”

Christian Sabbath keepers were found by sending people out on Saturday to search for them. They would look for people congregating, and then proceed to search for religious text upon the persons for states evidence.

 

[CherubRam]

I'm always interested to hear why people believe Jesus "taught" and obeyed the 10 Commandments.

And then I ask them why Jesus' closest followers obeyed the 10 Commandments after His death on the Cross - because that usually throws their original understanding for a loop. These were not Jews, they were the first Christians. The first followers of Jesus Christ and they knew exactly what He expected of Christians.

Nobody ever has any answer to these questions that makes any rational, logical sense other than to conclude that Jesus taught the 10 Commandments because that is what He expected Christians to do. And John says in 1 Jn. 2:6 that we are to live and walk as Jesus did so that eliminates the silly suggestion that Jesus was simply following some Jewish laws/traditions.

When all else is swiped off the table top so that there is no distractions left, it always comes down to "Well, what did Jesus do?" Are we not followers of Jesus Christ as the term Christian means? Today's Christians have no problem at all following 9 of the 10 Commandments, but they have been taught that the 4th Commandment, the Sabbath, is somehow evil, dirty and ungodly.

Where do we get these ideas when they do not come from the Bible?

The very first converts were Jews.

Matthew 19:17
“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
Exodus 20:8
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

 

[F345T]

The very first converts were Jews.

Well, that is in wide debate, but we'd derail if we went into it here and a thread that specifically covered the topic would be frowned upon.

So I guess we'll just leave it at that for now.