Which Denominations are Christian? What test can we use?

[Alfred Persson]

Greetings Alfred Persson,

That would have been a bad result as the JWs have many wrong teachings and practices.

The Holy Spirit is more than an active force, it is God's power used in many ways, as you could say it is almost an intelligent power, but the Holy Spirit is not a separate "Person" or the third Person of the Trinity. For example, could an "active force" heal a lame man, cause people to speak in various languages, raise Lazarus from the dead after four days?

Jesus is Lord, not "LORD" = Yahweh, consider Psalm 110:1 where these two words are distinguished.

Kind regards
Trevor

Anyone who says the Holy Spirit "is not a separate Person or Third Person of the Trinity" isn't a Christian. The text I cited, Acts 13:2-4 proves He is separate and distinct as a Person, I bolded the words proving that:


2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, "Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.
4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. (Acts 13:2-4 NKJ)

Only a Person can say "I" "Me" and command others do work "to which I have called them. Lest anyone be confused, verse 4 repeats again the disciples were "sent out by the Holy Spirit", not the Father or the Son.

Another indication a person is not born from above, they don't realize Jesus is Yahweh the Son, Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

When I learned the JWs were wrong about the Holy Spirit, I spent days praying to Jehovah the Father.

In despair I cried out to Jehovah with all my heart "show me who your people are, I don't know who they are"....for days, weeping and begging God to help me...

My prayers never got above the clouds.

It wasn't until I confessed Jesus is LORD Jehovah, God's Eternal Only Begotten Son, that my prayers passed through the clouds to the Throne of God Himself, and in Jesus' name, by His Stripes I was healed.

If you want to discuss your novel and somewhat odd take on the Trinity, start a thread in apologetics.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Alfred Persson,

Anyone who says the Holy Spirit "is not a separate Person or Third Person of the Trinity" isn't a Christian.

That's fine, I will hold on to my view that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. I will let God decide who or who is not acceptable with Him.

Another indication a person is not born from above, they don't realize Jesus is Yahweh the Son, Second Person of the Holy Trinity.

Same with this claim, I consider that Jesus is a human, now glorified and sitting at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. God is his father, Mary his mother.

When I learned the JWs were wrong about the Holy Spirit, I spent days praying to Jehovah the Father.
In despair I cried out to Jehovah with all my heart "show me who your people are, I don't know who they are"....for days, weeping and begging God to help me...
My prayers never got above the clouds.

It is interesting that you use both "Jehovah" and "Yahweh". I consider that "Jehovah" is a corrupt rendition of the YHWH Name. The JWs acknowledge that "Jehovah" is incorrect, but this is usually hidden to the everyday JW.

It wasn't until I confessed Jesus is LORD Jehovah, God's Eternal Only Begotten Son, that my prayers passed through the clouds to the Throne of God Himself, and in Jesus' name, by His Stripes I was healed.

This is an odd mix "Jesus is LORD Jehovah". "Jesus" contains the YHWH Name, "Yah Oshea" "Yah is salvation or saviour", "LORD" is the usual KJV spelling of the YHWH Name, and "Jehovah" is the incorrect rendition of the YHWH Name. Sounds like you are still a bit confused.

If you want to discuss your novel and somewhat odd take on the Trinity, start a thread in apologetics.

I have participated in a number of "Trinity" threads. I also have a thread "The Yahweh Name".

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Alfred Persson]

Greetings again Alfred Persson,

That's fine, I will hold on to my view that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. I will let God decide who or who is not acceptable with Him.

I am not attacking you. I know Classic Orthodox Trinitarianism is how Christians have been known since the days of Christ. It being "made official" in Nicea is nice, but not necessary to a sola scripturist.

You should start a thread in apologetics, explain what you believe about Yahweh God and we can address specific points there.

For example, a thread could focus on the Being of our One God. Is Yahweh infinite, and "One" is a "compound unity", or is He contained in a single finite form?

If the latter, then obviously Trinitarianism is impossible for God is One Yahweh. Then, as the JWs say, God would have three heads!

But if God is One infinite Ocean of Essence, then its possible Three Persons can subsist equally in the One Essence in a "compound unity" as Trinitarians believe. But this issue isn't what this thread is about. It should have its own thread in apologetics.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Greetings again Alfred Persson,

That's fine, I will hold on to my view that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. I will let God decide who or who is not acceptable with Him.

Same with this claim, I consider that Jesus is a human, now glorified and sitting at the right hand of God, in God the Father's Throne and he is the Son of God by birth, character and resurrection. God is his father, Mary his mother.

It is interesting that you use both "Jehovah" and "Yahweh". I consider that "Jehovah" is a corrupt rendition of the YHWH Name. The JWs acknowledge that "Jehovah" is incorrect, but this is usually hidden to the everyday JW.

This is an odd mix "Jesus is LORD Jehovah". "Jesus" contains the YHWH Name, "Yah Oshea" "Yah is salvation or saviour", "LORD" is the usual KJV spelling of the YHWH Name, and "Jehovah" is the incorrect rendition of the YHWH Name. Sounds like you are still a bit confused.

I have participated in a number of "Trinity" threads. I also have a thread "The Yahweh Name".

Kind regards
Trevor

I was too busy to read your entire reply this morning. I'll look for your thread, see you there.

 

[F345T]

We all heard Catholic Apologetic decry the 25,000 denominations. That number is grossly inflated. There are approximately 250 Christian denominations in the US according to the criteria used the "Handbook of Denominations in the United States." I asked ChatGPT to extrapolate from that to calculate a global estimate. It came up with 2,403 Christian denominations globally. The full text is below.

The question I have, What is the criteria used by Bible Believers today?

In the past it was belief in Jesus as God the Son, and the Orthodox doctrine of the Holy Trinity.

Doctrinally many churches pass that test. But so many have fallen away to sexual deviant behavior, is that a good "test" for who is a Christian now.

In the past apologists would affirm the body of Christ spans many different denominations and you can identify who are genuine Christians by their life style. What they do, rather than what they claim.

My criteria now: one must have repented, and put their faith in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God , believing in that name for their salvation. One must live a Christian life where Christ is LORD, owner and master of all we are and possess. Repentance for not fulfilling all we should do in Christ, will be manifest.

As Christ was accused of being a drunk and a glutton, I don't consider these disqualify a believer, who are free to follow their own conscience about such things.

All other doctrinal disputes don't identify who is a believer.

But that is me, what say you?


ChaptGPT

1. Number of Denominations in the United States: According to the "Handbook of Denominations in the United States," there are approximately 250 denominations in the U.S..
2. Christian Population in the United States: As of my last update, the Christian population in the United States was estimated to be about 70-75% of the total population. With a U.S. population of around 330 million, this suggests there are roughly 231-247.5 million Christians in the U.S.
3. Global Christian Population: The global Christian population is estimated to be around 2.3 billion.
4. Extrapolation:
   • The U.S. Christian population represents about 10-11% of the global Christian population (231-247.5 million out of 2.3 billion).
   • If we assume that the diversity of denominations globally is proportional to the diversity in the U.S., we can multiply the number of U.S. denominations by the ratio of the global Christian population to the U.S. Christian population.

Let's calculate this.
Based on this extrapolation method, there would be approximately 2,403 Christian denominations globally. This estimate is derived by assuming that the diversity of denominations in the United States is representative of global diversity, relative to the proportion of the Christian population. It's important to remember that this is a rough approximation and actual numbers could vary significantly due to various factors, such as cultural, historical, and theological differences across regions.

Personally, I have found that all denominations are misaligned with Scripture at least somewhere in the statement of faith.

That is a modern work of the devil.

Bible-believing Christians are the True Christians.

Denominations are a farce.

 

[F345T]

I know Classic Orthodox Trinitarianism is how Christians have been known since the days of Christ. It being "made official" in Nicea is nice, but not necessary to a sola scripturist.

Trinitarianism would have to be taught somewhere in the Bible to be Sola Scriptura.

It is not.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Personally, I have found that all denominations are misaligned with Scripture at least somewhere in the statement of faith.

That is a modern work of the devil.

Bible-believing Christians are the True Christians.

Denominations are a farce.

Farce may be too strong but I agree, Bible Believing Christians hear God's voice because they are His sheep. In the case where two Bible believing Christians disagree, and they can't be both right. Both are true Christians. Their disagreement exists because of human nature which God is fixing everyday.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Trinitarianism would have to be taught somewhere in the Bible to be Sola Scriptura.

It is not.

I disagree. The Truth infinite Yahweh God is Three as to Persons is implicit everywhere in the fabric of Scripture. Moreover, it is the logical conclusion as Scripture attributes Deity to all Three Persons, yet there is only One infinite Being Yahweh who is God.

For example, the following cannot be said of any finite creature, yet it is said of Christ, the firstborn heir of all the Father possesses, THROUGH HIM and FOR HIM----the firstborn heir were all things made:

15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. (Col. 1:15-17 NKJ)


for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, `For we are also His offspring.' (Acts 17:28 NKJ)
Jesus must be God the Son, Second Person of the holy Trinity for a finite "lesser than God" being cannot be the place where all things exist and have their being.

By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of them by the breath of His mouth. (Ps. 33:6 NKJ)

No one but God Himself can be the Glue holding everything together much like electromagnetism holds atoms together "bound by light" so they have the appearance of being solid":


In Jesus, by His Power are all things are kept from dissolving. That can ONLY be said of Infinite Almighty God:
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7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7-8 NKJ)


Hence, creation inductively and deductively reveals Jesus eternal power as Infinite God the Son:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen</strong>, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse. (Rom. 1:20 NKJ)

 

[F345T]

Like you say, we both see the same data proving a different perspective.

... Scripture attributes Deity to all Three Persons, yet there is only One infinite Being Yahweh who is God.

Deity attributed to Father, Son and Holy Ghost can also support Oneness in the sense that they are all the same single individual.

'Being' gets touchy in my opinion as a being is a person. Trinity claims God is three of those. It doesn't make a lot of sense to argue for the Trinity by stating that God is one being when the official definition states that He is 3 .... somehow.

No one but God Himself can be the Glue holding everything together much like electromagnetism holds atoms together "bound by light" so they have the appearance of being solid":

Agreed.

In Jesus, by His Power are all things are kept from dissolving. That can ONLY be said of Infinite Almighty God:

Agreed.

Hence, creation inductively and deductively reveals Jesus eternal power as Infinite God the Son:

Agreed.