Who do you think are the two witnesses in Revelation?

[Stan1953]

Me too

It has to be, because of Heb 9:27

 

[Kathi]

It has to be, because of Heb 9:27

That is what I thought.

 

[agua.]

It has to be, because of Heb 9:27

That is what I thought.

What about the Saints who are alive when Jesus returns ?

 

[Stan1953]

What about the Saints who are alive when Jesus returns ?

What about them? 1 Thess 4:13-18 NIV

 

[agua.]

What about them? 1 Thess 4:13-18 NIV

You suggested that the 2 witnesses must be Elijah and Enoch because of Heb 9:27 which says that it's appointed to all men once to die and then the judgement. The Saints who are alive when Jesus returns don't die right so how does this fit with your premise ?

 

[Deborah13]

1) Moses and Elijah
2)Enoch and Elijah
3)Someone else of your choosing

Moses and Elijah - The Law and the Prophets - both bear witness to Christ
Moses spoke and fire consumed false prophets. Numbers
Elijah spoke and his enemies were destroyed by fire. 1 Kings
Elijah called a drought on the land for 3.5 yrs. James 5:17
Moses with Aaron command the water in Egypt, it turns to blood, etc. Exodus

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No place do the scriptures say these are 2 people...does it imply yup it also implies they are lampstands or trees... The way God wrote the scriptures is just fantastic.... the way His writings bring out our thoughts the way we can talk and talk about them... If He had said 1 witness will be John the Baptist the other King David.... how much discussion would there be? It does not matter what i think today or what i thought yesteryear.... it will be as He planned... The discussion are interesting...

My guess is as good as anyones.
So here goes, Reba and "Claudya the dudess".
Seriously, for all we know I may be right.

 

[agua.]

My guess is as good as anyones.
So here goes, Reba and "Claudya the dudess".
Seriously, for all we know I may be right.

Oh c'mon now they couldn't possibly be wimmin.

 

[Gregg]

1) Moses and Elijah
2)Enoch and Elijah
3)Someone else of your choosing

Two other men.

are they 2 people?
What are olive trees what are candlesticks ... literal trees and literal candlesticks?

The 2 olive trees and the 2 lamp stands are:

1) specifically two individual NT saints, and also representative of the Church
2) representative kings [olive tree], and priests [priesthood of Levi - OT almond tree, priesthood of Melchizedek - NT pomegranate tree],
3) two cherubim in the Most Holy [olive wood overlayed in gold], and 2 brass pillars on the porch of the Temple [brass lamp stands]

the cherubim stand before the Mercy Seat and Ark, the pillars stand before the Sea and Altar in the courtyard​

4) their ministry is as that of Moses, and Elijah; who have many things in common, and a few listed here:

- Moses and Elijah were hidden, as mentioned in the texts of their introduction. The mother of Moses hid [Heb. tsaphan meaning hide or store up] him for three months and then placed him into the Nile river [where he was found by a gentile] (Exo 2:2-3); Elijah first hid [Heb. sathar meaning hide or conceal] by the Cherith river and then went to Zarephath of Sidon [and ministered to a gentile woman] (1Kin 17:2, 8-9). Here being hidden and a river are set in contrast; Moses was hidden, set into a river, and ended up in the hands of a gentile woman; where Elijah first hide by a river and then went to a gentile woman.
- Moses stood [Heb] before the Lord (Exo 34:34; see also Exo 33:11, 34:5-6, Num 12:8, Deu 34:10, Ps 99:6), as did his successors the priests (Deu 10:8, 18:7). Elijah stood before the Lord (1Kin 17:1), as did his successor Elisha (2Kin 3:14).
- Moses struck a rock and running water came forth (Exo 17:6-7, Num 20:9-11); Elijah [and his successor Elisha] struck running water and dry ground came forth (2Kin 2:7-8).
- The Lord passed before both Moses and Elijah while they were on a mountain. The Lord passed by [Heb. `abar] Moses at Sinai while he was in the cleft of the rock. "Then the LORD passed by in front of him and proclaimed, 'The LORD, the LORD God . . .' " (Exo 34:6, see Exo 33:22). The Lord was passing by [Heb. `abar] Elijah at Horeb as he stood inside a cave. "So He said, 'Go forth and stand on the mountain before the LORD.' And behold, the LORD was passing by!" (1Kin 19:11, see "went out and stood in the entrance of the cave" (1Kin 19:13).
- As the Lord appeared to Moses at Mt. Sinai, several signs accompanied the Lord's appearing: fire and smoke, the mountain quaked violently, and the voice of a trumpet grew louder. God answered with thunder. (Exo 19:18-19). As the Lord appeared to Elijah at Mt. Horeb, several signs accompanied the Lord's appearing: strong winds, an earthquake, fire, and a gentle blowing wind. The Lord spoke to Elijah as with a gentle wind (1Kin 19:11-12).
- Both men thought they acted alone in service to God:

1) Regarding Moses: "I alone am not able to carry all this people . . ." (Num 11:10-15). Regarding Elijah: "I alone am left a prophet of the Lord" (1Kin 18:22), and "I alone am left; and they seek my life, to take it away" (19:14).
2) As a result the Lord appointed 70 elders to assist Moses administrate the law (Num 11:16-17); In Elijah's day, the Lord by grace kept for Himself a remnant of 7,000 in Israel who did not worship Baal (1Kin 19:18, see Rom 11:5).​

5) their ministry ends 3-1/2 days (on the 4th day) before the Rapture, having begun 1260 days prior

 

[TOG]

2) representative kings [olive tree], and priests [priesthood of Levi - OT almond tree, priesthood of Melchizedek - NT pomegranate tree]

What is the "NT pomegranate tree"? I just did a word search on Bible Gateway, and I couldn't find a single mention of pomegranates in the New Testament.

The TOG​

 

[Blake]

Enoch and Elijah.

 

[Kathi]

Enoch and Elijah.

That is what I thought.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

That is what I thought.

No way it is either one of them.
Matthew 11:14; NIV
"And if you accept it, he himself is Elijah, who was to come".

More than likely, the two witnesses will be present day Jews.
If God wanted us to know, he would have told us.

 

[Gregg]

What is the "NT pomegranate tree"? I just did a word search on Bible Gateway, and I couldn't find a single mention of pomegranates in the New Testament.

The TOG​

In the OT the almond tree was representative of the Levitical priesthood: menorah [lampstand] Exo 25:31-37, Exo 37:17-22; and Aaron's rod Num 17:8.

However, Christ was not a Levitical high priest, but one according to the order of Melchizedek (Gen 14:18, Heb 5:6, 10, 6:20).

I was saying that the two witnesses are representative of the Church being kings and priests in Christ; as Jesus Christ has "made us kings and priests to God, even His Father" (Rev 1:5-6). I believe that our priesthood in Christ is also according to the order of Melchizedek. I also stated that the two bronze pillars on the porch of the Temple represented the entire NT Church, "The one overcoming, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more" (Rev 3:12 LITV); and perhaps specifically the 2 witnesses. Those 2 bronze pillars are shaped like lampstands and are somewhat fashioned after pomegranate trees (1Kings 7:18-20, 7:41-42, 2Kings 25:17, 2Chron 3:16).

It is an assumption on my part to equate the bronze pillars with the NT Church, or the two witnesses; but there are several other reasons why I think so. One other reason is that the bronze pillars are named Yachin [He will establish] and Boaz [in Him is strength], the only members of the Temple that have names. I believe they reference that Christ will establish the Church in His strength, and as we are members of His body we are also pillars in His Temple.

 

[TOG]

In the OT the almond tree was representative of the Levitical priesthood: menorah [lampstand] Exo 25:31-37, Exo 37:17-22; and Aaron's rod Num 17:8.

However, Christ was not a Levitical high priest, but one according to the order of Melchizedek (Gen 14:18, Heb 5:6, 10, 6:20).

I was saying that the two witnesses are representative of the Church being kings and priests in Christ; as Jesus Christ has "made us kings and priests to God, even His Father" (Rev 1:5-6). I believe that our priesthood in Christ is also according to the order of Melchizedek. I also stated that the two bronze pillars on the porch of the Temple represented the entire NT Church, "The one overcoming, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall not go out any more" (Rev 3:12 LITV); and perhaps specifically the 2 witnesses. Those 2 bronze pillars are shaped like lampstands and are somewhat fashioned after pomegranate trees (1Kings 7:18-20, 7:41-42, 2Kings 25:17, 2Chron 3:16).

It is an assumption on my part to equate the bronze pillars with the NT Church, or the two witnesses; but there are several other reasons why I think so. One other reason is that the bronze pillars are named Yachin [He will establish] and Boaz [in Him is strength], the only members of the Temple that have names. I believe they reference that Christ will establish the Church in His strength, and as we are members of His body we are also pillars in His Temple.

I understand all that. I was asking what the pomegranate tree has to do with anything, since it's not even mentioned in the New Testament.

The TOG​

 

[Malachi]

Moses and Elijah - The Law and the Prophets - both bear witness to Christ
Moses spoke and fire consumed false prophets. Numbers
Elijah spoke and his enemies were destroyed by fire. 1 Kings
Elijah called a drought on the land for 3.5 yrs. James 5:17
Moses with Aaron command the water in Egypt, it turns to blood, etc. Exodus

Correct. These two would be the closest to what is revealed about them in Scripture. The return of Elijah before the great and dreadful Day of the Lord (Mal 4:5) is absolutely certain. But his coming is also linked to the Law of Moses in the previous verse (Mal 4:4): "Remember ye the Law of Moses my servant...".

Additionally the miracles performed by these two witnesses are a replication of those miracles previously performed by Moses and Elijah. There is no doubt that these are two individual prophets, who die and are then resurrected and ascend to Heaven.

Furthermore, it was Moses and Elijah who appeared at the Transfiguration, to confer with Christ regarding His "exodus" from the earth. They represented the Law and the Prophets, both of which testified to the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow (1 Pet 1:10,11).

Because they saw Christ (as eye witnesses) in all His glory at the Mount of Transfiguration, they are the most qualified to be "my two witnesses" for 3 1/2 years, while the Beast (the Antichrist) dominates the earth. That is exactly the same time period as Elijah's drought when Ahab was king (Ahab being a type of the Antichrist).

 

[Karl]

And to add just a wee bit more to what Malachi has said, Moses and Elijah were there representing the Law and the Prophets as a testimony that Jesus had lived a perfect sinless life and had fulfilled prophecy as a human and He was qualified to enter Heaven (He was dressed with light, meaning he had regained what Adam had forfeited), ...but we read they spoke about His death, He could of ascended to Heaven at that moment, but He came down from the Mount to go to Calvary for me!

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen and AMEN.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And to add just a wee bit more to what Malachi has said, Moses and Elijah were there representing the Law and the Prophets as a testimony that Jesus had lived a perfect sinless life and had fulfilled prophecy as a human and He was qualified to enter Heaven (He was dressed with light, meaning he had regained what Adam had forfeited), ...but we read they spoke about His death, He could of ascended to Heaven at that moment, but He came down from the Mount to go to Calvary for me!

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen and AMEN.

You have quite an imagination.

 

[Malachi]

You have quite an imagination.

Rollo,
Actually Karl makes some valid points. He is looking behind the scene, so to speak, and sees something not normally brought up. The three apostles, on the other hand, were quite "befuddled", and Peter had to be gently corrected by God the Father. There is a great lesson for us in the Transfiguration, in that the Law and the Prophets have been superseded by the glorious Son of God and His marvelous salvation. Hence "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; HEAR YE HIM" (Mt 17:5).

 

[Kathi]

No way it is either one of them.
Matthew 11:14; NIV
"And if you accept it, he himself is Elijah, who was to come".

More than likely, the two witnesses will be present day Jews.
If God wanted us to know, he would have told us.

I am not saying that I know.I am just speculating according to Scripture.