Who has dominioin over 'this World'?

[Imagican]

Solo,

So, you still want to dance but refuse to 'pay the piper'. You accuse me of 'no scriptural support', yet I have offered to post it if you will but answer a couple of questions. You still choose to ignore them and simply 'try' and discredit my statements for their lack of scriptural backing. I have stated and will state again, answer my questions and 'then' I will offer the scripture that backs my statements. Otherwise I will assume that you don't really have answers to my questions and will simply assume that you have never really contemplated the subject at hand. This makes it 'seem' as if you would simply post your replies to elicit 'effect' rather than beneficial study or debate.

Awaiting the answers to the questions...............

MEC

 

[Solo]

Solo,

So, you still want to dance but refuse to 'pay the piper'. You accuse me of 'no scriptural support', yet I have offered to post it if you will but answer a couple of questions. You still choose to ignore them and simply 'try' and discredit my statements for their lack of scriptural backing. I have stated and will state again, answer my questions and 'then' I will offer the scripture that backs my statements. Otherwise I will assume that you don't really have answers to my questions and will simply assume that you have never really contemplated the subject at hand. This makes it 'seem' as if you would simply post your replies to elicit 'effect' rather than beneficial study or debate.

Awaiting the answers to the questions...............

MEC

You really ought to back up your teachings with scripture, otherwise folks will think that you are deceptive, and pushing false doctrines. If you don't want to follow up your statement that satan has dominion over this planet, then don't expect folks to believe you. Let God be true and man be a liar.

 

[Imagican]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So be it. But I see that others have beaten me to it.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience

Matthew 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Now, since Christ has 'not yet' returned to 'defeat' this prince, I ask again, WHO has dominion over this 'world'? Christ WILL BE KING, but for now, there is a 'prince' that 'leads' the world. And his name?

I am NOT denying that God IS the ultimate authority in the universe. But I also know that there are powers and principalities that we WAR against and it is 'these' that have 'dominion' in our present time. Not only do we have the 'Word' that states this very thing, but all one needs do is look around at the 'state' of this world to recognize WHO has control over it.

Look, if God were controlling this 'world', there would be NO need for it's destruction. Just as in the time of Noah, the Bible states that man's heart had become EVIL continually. All save ONE MAN. That should be a pretty clear idea and strong evidence of what our present state IS. Even those that 'claim' Christianity as 'their religion' follow NOT the will of God but 'their own'. Evil is NOT necessarily 'human sacrifices to Satan', it is simple rebellion against the WILL OF GOD. And I believe I'm fairly safe in saying that we are ALL guilty of this, (at least I will openly admit MY weakness in this direction. And that's just what I am AWARE of. There is MUCH that I am not).

God IS THERE for those that are obedient in their LOVE for Him. But He does NOT control us. He will guide and strengthen us, but our decisions are made BY US.

The scarry part is that Satan has MANY MANY MANY demons under HIS command. These are able to influence those that allow them to. Enough demons and enough sacrifice of will and then we become literally CONTROLLED by them. Entertainment of demons leads to demonic control of the decisions that one makes. Once they have been 'given' the power, ones decisions are no longer their own but 'created' by that which dwells within them. It's really NO different than the Spirit, there is also the spirit of Satan and THIS my friend is what has control of this world.

NO Solo, not EVERY person on the planet is controlled by Satan. But, the spirit of this WORLD is HIS spirit. Has been EVER SINCE Adam and Eve. Remember, Satan even spiritually ATTACKED Christ Himself when he tempted Him. Any other person that has existed would have fallen to this temptation. Fortunately for us, Christ didn't. But understand the implications of this alone. Satan HAS the power to tempt EVEN THE SON OF GOD. And HOW did he tempt Christ, by offering that which he had dominion over.............

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

So, you still want to dance but refuse to 'pay the piper'. You accuse me of 'no scriptural support', yet I have offered to post it if you will but answer a couple of questions. You still choose to ignore them and simply 'try' and discredit my statements for their lack of scriptural backing. I have stated and will state again, answer my questions and 'then' I will offer the scripture that backs my statements. Otherwise I will assume that you don't really have answers to my questions and will simply assume that you have never really contemplated the subject at hand. This makes it 'seem' as if you would simply post your replies to elicit 'effect' rather than beneficial study or debate.

Awaiting the answers to the questions...............

MEC

You really ought to back up your teachings with scripture, otherwise folks will think that you are deceptive, and pushing false doctrines. If you don't want to follow up your statement that satan has dominion over this planet, then don't expect folks to believe you. Let God be true and man be a liar.

I AM a liar, and a thief, and a murderer............................... In my heart I am guilt of ALL of the above. But I come here NOT to lie or steal or offer 'false doctrine'. I come here freely and offer freely that which has been 'freely given' to me. I am quite sure that there are and will be many that will deny what I offer. So be it. No different NOW than it has always been.

I only brought this thread into existence for there seemed to be many that are 'unaware' of what we are dealing with as far as spirits are concerned. I have to wonder how ANYONE that is familiar with the Word could be 'blind' to the spirit that has dominion over this world. This, my friend, is a VERY important thing to 'understand' for without a firm understanding of that which we do battle with EVERY DAY, how could we POSSILBY defend ourselves?

 

[Solo]

Solo,

So, you still want to dance but refuse to 'pay the piper'. You accuse me of 'no scriptural support', yet I have offered to post it if you will but answer a couple of questions. You still choose to ignore them and simply 'try' and discredit my statements for their lack of scriptural backing. I have stated and will state again, answer my questions and 'then' I will offer the scripture that backs my statements. Otherwise I will assume that you don't really have answers to my questions and will simply assume that you have never really contemplated the subject at hand. This makes it 'seem' as if you would simply post your replies to elicit 'effect' rather than beneficial study or debate.

Awaiting the answers to the questions...............

MEC

You really ought to back up your teachings with scripture, otherwise folks will think that you are deceptive, and pushing false doctrines. If you don't want to follow up your statement that satan has dominion over this planet, then don't expect folks to believe you. Let God be true and man be a liar.

I AM a liar, and a thief, and a murderer............................... In my heart I am guilt of ALL of the above. But I come here NOT to lie or steal or offer 'false doctrine'. I come here freely and offer freely that which has been 'freely given' to me. I am quite sure that there are and will be many that will deny what I offer. So be it. No different NOW than it has always been.

I only brought this thread into existence for there seemed to be many that are 'unaware' of what we are dealing with as far as spirits are concerned. I have to wonder how ANYONE that is familiar with the Word could be 'blind' to the spirit that has dominion over this world. This, my friend, is a VERY important thing to 'understand' for without a firm understanding of that which we do battle with EVERY DAY, how could we POSSILBY defend ourselves?

Satan does not have dominion over this planet my friend. He would like for you to believe that, and it looks like he has succeeded in your case. The gates of hell will not prevail against the called out ones of Jesus Christ.

By the way, in one place of your concordance search for prince, you posted the verse Matthew 9:34 where the Pharisees were claiming that Jesus was casting out devils by the prince of devils. It's interesting that they too believed that satan was more dominant in this planet than Jesus.

 

[mutzrein]

I haven’t read through all the posts here, but what is your contention Solo? That Satan has no authority? Scripture confirms that he leads the whole world astray. Now of course he doesn’t have dominion over those who have been redeemed by the blood of the lamb but it is clear he does have authority as prince of the power of the air. Do you accept this?

 

[Solo]

I haven’t read through all the posts here, but what is your contention Solo? That Satan has no authority? Scripture confirms that he leads the whole world astray. Now of course he doesn’t have dominion over those who have been redeemed by the blood of the lamb but it is clear he does have authority as prince of the power of the air. Do you accept this?

Satan does not have dominion over the planet as is contended by Imagican. Satan has authority over his children. Where does scripture confirm that satan leads the whole world astray? Satan has no authority over those that are born of God.

Jesus has dominion over the whole world. Jesus has authority over all evil. Jesus and those that abide in him are not dominated by satan.

 

[mutzrein]

I haven’t read through all the posts here, but what is your contention Solo? That Satan has no authority? Scripture confirms that he leads the whole world astray. Now of course he doesn’t have dominion over those who have been redeemed by the blood of the lamb but it is clear he does have authority as prince of the power of the air. Do you accept this?

Satan does not have dominion over the planet as is contended by Imagican. Satan has authority over his children. Where does scripture confirm that satan leads the whole world astray? Satan has no authority over those that are born of God.

Jesus has dominion over the whole world. Jesus has authority over all evil. Jesus and those that abide in him are not dominated by satan.

Solo - I'm happy for you to contend with Imagican as you have been. I'm not responding on his behalf as he is quite capable of doing so himself. I wanted to know the extent to which you accept what scripture says about him.

From Revelations 12. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled downâ€â€that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

 

[Solo]

I haven’t read through all the posts here, but what is your contention Solo? That Satan has no authority? Scripture confirms that he leads the whole world astray. Now of course he doesn’t have dominion over those who have been redeemed by the blood of the lamb but it is clear he does have authority as prince of the power of the air. Do you accept this?

Satan does not have dominion over the planet as is contended by Imagican. Satan has authority over his children. Where does scripture confirm that satan leads the whole world astray? Satan has no authority over those that are born of God.

Jesus has dominion over the whole world. Jesus has authority over all evil. Jesus and those that abide in him are not dominated by satan.

Solo - I'm happy for you to contend with Imagican as you have been. I'm not responding on his behalf as he is quite capable of doing so himself. I wanted to know the extent to which you accept what scripture says about him.

From Revelations 12. And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled downâ€â€that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Thank you for the verse of scripture. :wink: It is a good thing that satan doesn't have dominion over the whole planet; otherwise the Church would be in serious trouble.

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:7-15

 

[Imagican]

Solo,

Let me try this again.

There are TWO spirits that exist on this planet. One, the Spirit of God. The other, the spirit of Satan. One takes NO effort whatsoever to follow. One takes an effort to follow. Therefore ONE is dominant in that the 'world' in general follows IT.

Now, Christians are TOLD to abandon the 'world' for a 'reason'. That reason is that the world 'chooses' the path of 'least' resistence. That path is in following the spirit that takes NO effort to follow.

I can't help but be reminded of Revelation in that it speaks of specific numbers of the house of Isreal that are 'saved' in the end. Boy, if these numbers have ANY significance, what they show is that there will be VERY few that choose to follow The Spirit and that the REST will be following 'another' spirit. And THESE are God's CHOSEN PEOPLE.

Simply living for 'oneself' is NOT following The Spirit. Living with hate, envy, strife, lusts, etc,,,,,,,,,in ones heart IS indeed 'living in this world. So, we see, that living in this world is to follow the DOMINANT spirit that has CONTROL over this world.

I don't know if your lack of understanding concerning this matter is a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'. It could mean that you have been spared the understanding of what I offer in leu of the alternative. I, for one, followed this 'other' spirit for most of my life and KNOW it well. Therefore I am now able to 'recognize it' clearly. I just wonder how one can 'defend' oneself against an 'enemy' that they don't even recognize.

YES, there are those that are able to 'overcome' the spirit of Satan. For these he has NO dominion over thier spirit. But he STILL controls the FLESH and the flesh IS the world.

 

[Vic C.]

Thank you for the verse of scripture. It is a good thing that satan doesn't have dominion over the whole planet; otherwise the Church would be in serious trouble.

Satan and sin have no dominion over those under the Grace of God and hear the Shepherd's voice; that is true. Satan does dominion over a very large percentage of the population. Enough Scripture has been provided to convince me of his dominion over Man. That should render any counter-argument moot.

Also... the Church IS in serious truoble, so serious that Jesus doesn't expect to see much Faith when He returns.

Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

 

[Imagican]

Vic,

You took the words right out of my mouth. I had started to post a reply referring to the state of The Church and deleted it for that which I posted instead. I didn't really want the 'subject' to be 'changed'. But, now that 'you' mention it, I see that you recognized the 'need' to offer this as well.

I would just like to add 'one more time' for Solo's sake: I am in complete agreement that Satan does NOT have dominion OVER the Church. Christ IS The Head of the Church. But the WORLD at large IS Satan's for a 'time'.

I appreciate the posts that have been offered on this thread. I hope that there are and will be those that read them and are offered additional understanding from them. We are AT WAR folks. We do NOT battle against MEN, we battle against spirits. The ONLY way that we can defend ourselves is to recognize and acknowledge the enemy. Otherwise there is NO defense against that which is NOT recognized.

I offer what I offer for there was a time that I 'lived' NOT for our Father but the 'father of lies' and I KNOW him like a 'brother'. This may be the reason that some are not able to 'recognize' him for 'who he really is'. I know that there are some that think that they have NEVER 'really' been sinners. For these; I believe that they have simply never recognized their 'true' father. It took me many years and much heart-ache to realize the 'truth'. Now that I do, his deceptions are 'obvious', (most of them).

So, I simply hope that the insight that I have had to pay SO DEARLY for may be accepted by others in the hopes that they may avoid, at least SOME of the pitfalls that took me years to dig myself up out of.

God Bless You Folks.

MEC

 

[gingercat]

This is for non-believers:

Satan is challenging God that he can do better job than God to rule the world. But look what is happening to the world? It is becoming worse and worse. If we don't trust God the end is dead with satan.

 

[JM]

The "world lies in the power of the evil one," I'm not of the world. No believer is, we are in the world and not of the world.

:wink:

 

[Novum]

This is for non-believers:

Satan is challenging God that he can do better job than God to rule the world. But look what is happening to the world? It is becoming worse and worse. If we don't trust God the end is dead with satan.

The world is becoming worse and worse? That's your own opinion, so don't try to portray it as fact.

I would argue that the world is getting better, not worse, on the whole. New advances in medicine and science have us healthier and living longer than ever. We are learning more all the time about our planet, our solar system, and our universe. There are no upper limits in sight.

 

[Solo]

Solo,

Let me try this again.

There are TWO spirits that exist on this planet. One, the Spirit of God. The other, the spirit of Satan. One takes NO effort whatsoever to follow. One takes an effort to follow. Therefore ONE is dominant in that the 'world' in general follows IT.

Now, Christians are TOLD to abandon the 'world' for a 'reason'. That reason is that the world 'chooses' the path of 'least' resistence. That path is in following the spirit that takes NO effort to follow.

I can't help but be reminded of Revelation in that it speaks of specific numbers of the house of Isreal that are 'saved' in the end. Boy, if these numbers have ANY significance, what they show is that there will be VERY few that choose to follow The Spirit and that the REST will be following 'another' spirit. And THESE are God's CHOSEN PEOPLE.

Simply living for 'oneself' is NOT following The Spirit. Living with hate, envy, strife, lusts, etc,,,,,,,,,in ones heart IS indeed 'living in this world. So, we see, that living in this world is to follow the DOMINANT spirit that has CONTROL over this world.

I don't know if your lack of understanding concerning this matter is a 'good thing' or a 'bad thing'. It could mean that you have been spared the understanding of what I offer in leu of the alternative. I, for one, followed this 'other' spirit for most of my life and KNOW it well. Therefore I am now able to 'recognize it' clearly. I just wonder how one can 'defend' oneself against an 'enemy' that they don't even recognize.

YES, there are those that are able to 'overcome' the spirit of Satan. For these he has NO dominion over thier spirit. But he STILL controls the FLESH and the flesh IS the world.

So then you are in agreement with me that satan does not have dominion over this planet, but has instead a limited authority upon those that are his children. Christ Jesus has dominion over this planet and will reign supreme forever and ever.

 

[Solo]

Too many people give satan more credit and power than he is due.


17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Ephesians 1:17-23

 

[gingercat]

This is for non-believers:

Satan is challenging God that he can do better job than God to rule the world. But look what is happening to the world? It is becoming worse and worse. If we don't trust God the end is dead with satan.

The world is becoming worse and worse? That's your own opinion, so don't try to portray it as fact.

I would argue that the world is getting better, not worse, on the whole. New advances in medicine and science have us healthier and living longer than ever. We are learning more all the time about our planet, our solar system, and our universe. There are no upper limits in sight.

That's what satan wants you to believe. Very soon this imperfect world will end and God's people will live in paradise like Adam and Eve used to have before they listened to satan.

Look at the wars all around the world and incurable diseases. Science is not catching up with new dieseses to study and cures to find. Look at the fights we are having in the forums. There is all kinds of discord everywhere. We cannot even trust our own neighborhoods. Killings are just about everywhere. Many people are carrying guns to protect themselvs. I could go on...

 

[Novum]

That's what satan wants you to believe. Very soon this imperfect world will end and God's people will live in paradise like Adam and Eve used to have before they listened to satan.

Look at the wars all around the world and incurable diseases. Science is not catching up with new dieseses to study and cures to find. Look at the fights we are having in the forums. There is all kinds of discord everywhere. We cannot even trust our own neighborhoods. Killings are just about everywhere. Many people are carrying guns to protect themselvs. I could go on...

I'm sorry you feel that way. Must be awfully depressing for you to go through each day, thinking what you do of the world...

 

[gingercat]

That's what satan wants you to believe. Very soon this imperfect world will end and God's people will live in paradise like Adam and Eve used to have before they listened to satan.

Look at the wars all around the world and incurable diseases. Science is not catching up with new dieseses to study and cures to find. Look at the fights we are having in the forums. There is all kinds of discord everywhere. We cannot even trust our own neighborhoods. Killings are just about everywhere. Many people are carrying guns to protect themselvs. I could go on...

I'm sorry you feel that way. Must be awfully depressing for you to go through each day, thinking what you do of the world...

Actually it is opposite that I have hope for perfect world in paradice. :angel: .