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Who here REALLY BELIEVES Christ? Luke 16 Is A PARABLE!

E

Elijah674

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Luke.15
[1] Then drew near unto him [all the publicans and sinners for to hear him].
[2] And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, ..’

Luke.16

[1] And he said also unto his disciples, ..’

....

[14] And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
[15] And he said [unto them], Ye are they which justify yourselves before men;

....

[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Verse 31 is the bottom/line message! Christ did indeed arise from the grave & His own would not HEAR HIM but rejected Him! + ALL these ones of Rev. 17:1-5 who JUST PLAIN FLAT OUT RIGHT WILL NOT ‘HEAR MOSES & [[ALL THE PROPHETS!]]

Yet, who was it that heard Christ’s above Words from just Luke 15 on?? look at the underlined highlights.



OK: Now will you BELIEVE CHRIST???

And again, Christ says:
Matt. 13
[9] Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[10] And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest [[thou unto **them]] in parables?
[11] He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

...

[34] All these things spake Jesus [[ unto the multitude in parables]]; and [[without a parable spake he not unto them]]:

[35] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.
[36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

And you ones of today still cannot get it right? :seehearspeak

Christ in Matt. 15 has it said this way...
[10] And [[he called the multitude]], and [said unto




**them], Hear, and understand:
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
[13] But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
[14] Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.







[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

And in Mark 4:1’s GREAT MULTITUDE, you might see & understand why Luke 16 [[IS A PARABLE?]] Who was Christ ADDRESSING??? (Look at the highlights above again from Luke 15:1 on!)

Mark 4
[33] And with many such parables spake he the word [unto them,] as they were able to hear it.
[34] But [[[without a parable spake he not unto them]]] and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.

Now, if one believes Christ?? He can go back up to the top of these Words from Christ’s Inspiration & KNOW FOR CERTAIN that Luke 16 is a Parable. For 'again', who was Christ addressing? Read the above Mark 4 verse 34 again...

--Elijah












 
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Should it be granted for conversation sake it is a parable, parables TEACH! What then is the teaching of the parable?
 
Who here REALLY BELIEVES Christ? Luke 16 Is A PARABLE!
I know what you are saying, if by this parable one cannot deduce the nature of "hell". This parable was long used (too long) IMO by being interpreted literally to scare people into salvation. But as one ministry quipped, if he was in fiery torment, instead of asking to cool just his tongue, would he not asked for buckets of water to be thrown on him instead?

We have to understand that the Gentilized scriptural interpretations brought in all kinds of Gentile pagan thought. This fear mongering continues on yet, although more and more are seeing the light. The pagan attachments and interpretations, which are obviously ludicrous, is one of the strongholds that atheists use to attack Christianity as being unreasonable and superstitious. Then, well-meaning but misinformed Christians have to defend those erroneous and crazy doctrines as somehow being "reasonable" (usually involving excessive rationalization) all the while driving the unbeliever deeper and deeper into their unbelief. It's sad all around, but the verse that comes to my mind is this one:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD


 
I know what you are saying, if by this parable one cannot deduce the nature of "hell". This parable was long used (too long) IMO by being interpreted literally to scare people into salvation. But as one ministry quipped, if he was in fiery torment, instead of asking to cool just his tongue, would he not asked for buckets of water to be thrown on him instead?

We have to understand that the Gentilized scriptural interpretations brought in all kinds of Gentile pagan thought. This fear mongering continues on yet, although more and more are seeing the light. The pagan attachments and interpretations, which are obviously ludicrous, is one of the strongholds that atheists use to attack Christianity as being unreasonable and superstitious. Then, well-meaning but misinformed Christians have to defend those erroneous and crazy doctrines as somehow being "reasonable" (usually involving excessive rationalization) all the while driving the unbeliever deeper and deeper into their unbelief. It's sad all around, but the verse that comes to my mind is this one:

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD


Very true. It all stems from these ones bottom/line teaching that God did indeed lie & then with them believing satan in Gen. 3: 2-4.:sad

Even then it is indeed baffeling with even 'one' trying to believe this stuff when God DOCUMENTS that They ONLY HAVE IMMORTALITY?! So on just one doctrine satan has blinded all of the Rev. 17:1-5 ones.

Who has Immortality?

1 Tim. 1:17 + 1 Tim. 6:16 has it INSPIRED!

[17] Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Tim. 6:16

[14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
[15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

And except by profession, who BELIEVES GOD'S WORD??

--Elijah
 
Hebrews 11 says: He that comes to God, must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.'

It always amazes me how much people will argue in order to escape moral responsibility toward their Creator.
 
here is a quote ( from France) about parables:

The extensive modern discussion of Jesus' parables has shown how inadequate is the sunday school definition, 'an earthly story with a heavenly meaning'. Even those parables which take the form of a story are often not simple illistrations of heavenly truth. They tend to puzzle as much as enlighten, and are designed to shock and challenge rather than to offer reassuring explainations or illustrations of moral platitudes.

and Snodgrass in prophets, parables and theologians
defined parables to be "a dark saying intended to stimulate thought."
 
Should it be granted for conversation sake it is a parable, parables TEACH! What then is the teaching of the parable?

Yes they were quaint little illustrations for the uneducated farmfolk...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Christ was not in the business of calling everyone at this time.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Jesus Christ spoke in parable to hide the meaning, to confuse the multitudes, He says so Himself.

If one thinks that parables were to illustrate or teach, help me out with the understanding of this one...

Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.

Now, what do we learn from this? That God begrudgingly answers our prayers? That He only answers for His convenience, so that He will not be wearied with our petitions? Or for that matter, is God an unjust judge?

If parables are to be taken to illustrate and to develop doctrine from, then these are the conclusions we must draw.

Now, with this being said, who here believes that Luke 16 sets doctrine about an everburing hell and the immortality of the soul?
 
Should it be granted for conversation sake it is a parable, parables TEACH! What then is the teaching of the parable?
Here is what theologian NT Wright has to say about the meaning of the Luke 16 text (he takes it to indeed be a parable):

"The parable is not, as often supposed, a description of the afterlife, warning people to be sure of their ultimate destination. If that were its point, it would not be a parable: a story about someone getting lost in London would not be a parable if addressed to people attempting to find their way through that city without a map. We have perhaps been misled, not for the first time, by the too-ready assumption, in the teeth of the evidence, that Jesus 'must really' have been primarily concerned to teach people 'how to go to heaven after death'. The reality is uncomfortably different.

"The welcome of Lazarus by Abraham evokes the welcome of the prodigal by the father, and with much the same point. The heavenly reality, in which the poor and outcast would be welcomed into Abraham's bosom (as everyone would know from the folk-tale), was coming true in flesh and blood as Jesus welcomed the outcasts, just as the father's welcome to the returning son was a story about what Jesus was actually doing then and there. The theme of 'rich and poor', not unimportant in Luke, is here thrown into stark prominence, as recent studies have stressed. But the point of this, when the story is seen as a traditional tale with a new ending, was not so much what would happen to both in the end, nor yet simply a statement on the abstract 'ethical' issue of wealth and poverty, but rather what was happening to both rich and poor in the present time. Jesus' welcome of the poor and outcast was a sign that the real return from exile, the new age, the 'resurrection', was coming into being; and if the new age was dawning, those who wanted to belong to it would (as in Deuteronomy and Jeremiah) have to repent. The story points up the true significance of what Jesus was doing, and the urgent need of those who were at present grumbling to recognize this significance. The five brothers at home correspond quite closely to the older brother in the prodigal son. 'Resurrection' is happening, but they cannot see it. The story takes for granted that the poor and outcast were rightly being welcomed into the kingdom, and it turns the spotlight on to the rich, the Pharisees, the grumblers: they, too, now needed to repent if they were to inherit the new day that would shortly dawn. They were refused the extra revelation of someone ongoing to them from the dead; the message of repentance was clear enough in Moses and the prophets.

"The parable is therefore further strong evidence that 'repentance', in the senses already discussed, formed a central element in Jesus' proclamation. The basic story he was telling invited his hearers to see themselves as the true Israel, returning at last from exile, and turning back to their god as an essential part of the process."
 
Yes they were quaint little illustrations for the uneducated farmfolk...

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Christ was not in the business of calling everyone at this time.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Jesus Christ spoke in parable to hide the meaning, to confuse the multitudes, He says so Himself.

If one thinks that parables were to illustrate or teach, help me out with the understanding of this one...

Luke 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.

Now, what do we learn from this? That God begrudgingly answers our prayers? That He only answers for His convenience, so that He will not be wearied with our petitions? Or for that matter, is God an unjust judge?

If parables are to be taken to illustrate and to develop doctrine from, then these are the conclusions we must draw.

Now, with this being said, who here believes that Luke 16 sets doctrine about an everburing hell and the immortality of the soul?


+ maggots, huh?:robot
 
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