[__ Science __ ] WHO IS DEAD? GOD OR DARWIN?

[Edward]

I was a real scientist before being a teacher. But I've been a Christian for about 75 years, so I have some idea of what faith is.

That's cool. What kind of scientist?

 

[GodsGrace]

I watched it. That's a good video. Some may find it sort of dry but I like those types videos where the guys with the alphabet after their name discuss.

This info about the complexity of the cell has been out for quite awhile now. But since a lot of people have no interest in learning these things because they'd have a hard time understanding it, luckily there is a way how to discover the truth for yourself and you don't even have to be a scientist!

All you have to do is to go outside and look around. Consider how many different species of life this planet has on it. Zillions of plant species, millions of animal species and fish, and birds. Now for any of them to evolve, they had to come from somewhere first, right? So that would be the big bang theory. I can sort of hypothesize that a big bang could (maybe Lol) come up with a single form of life. Not millons of different kinds, that's absurd.

So after all God was right. He said He made Himself apparent so there is no excuse.

Darwin is dead and gets buried a little deeper every year whether the Darwin groupies admit it or not. Lol.

How come no one ever talks about our spiritual evolution?

Agreed on all.
Do you ever watch Dr. James Tour?
He explains the cell.
It's absolutely out of this world stuff.
It seems impossible for me that something like that could come about by natural selection.

Short version:

Long version:

Much more on YouTube if you're interested.
Dr. James Tour
Dr. Stephen Meyer
Dr. John Lennox - he's a great apologist.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's cool. What kind of scientist?

Barbarian knows everything.
Really.

 

[Edward]

Agreed on all.
Do you ever watch Dr. James Tour?
He explains the cell.
It's absolutely out of this world stuff.
It seems impossible for me that something like that could come about by natural selection.

I've never heard of Dr. James. But, Chuck Missler was explaing all this stuff years ago. The liken a single cell to be a city with many different functions, construction, delivery and all that stuff. In a single cell. He said our DNA is an error correcting code. Many cells repair themselves. (but we already knew that!)

 

[Edward]

Barbarian knows everything.
Really.

I know! I called him over educated before, lol.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've never heard of Dr. James. But, Chuck Missler was explaing all this stuff years ago. The liken a single cell to be a city with many different functions, construction, delivery and all that stuff. In a single cell. He said our DNA is an error correcting code. Many cells repair themselves. (but we already knew that!)

Yeah. I can't get over this.
I just learned it about a year ago.

 

[Barbarian]

That's cool. What kind of scientist?

Bacteriologist/zoology
started graduate work in immunology but got drafted
Went to grad school while I was in the AF and became an ergonomist, which is what I did for a living for about 20 years. Then I became a teacher, which I always wanted to do, but couldn't afford until then.

 

[Barbarian]

Do you ever watch Dr. James Tour?

Tour is interesting. He's a chemist with no actual work in biology, an evangelical Christian, who has distanced himself from the intelligent design movement, but apparently (like Behe) thinks evolution is a fact, with God needing to step in and fix things now and then. Like a lot of creationists (which Tour apparently isn't) he often confuses evolution with the origin of life:

James M Tour Group » Evolution/Creation

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The very fact that a new hypothesis is being put forward tells me they haven't got a clue and that they REFUSE to even consider ID.

I thought science was supposed to be an open minded field.

Scientists are about as honest as used car salesmen. They don’t even trust each other.

 

[Edward]

Scientists are about as honest as used car salesmen. They don’t even trust each other.

Those types always show themselves. But other times you can see the sincerity and credibility in their body language of the other types, the honest types. It's not hard to read people. Even the scientific community has it's good ones here and there.

 

[Barbarian]

I know! I called him over educated before, lol.

Can't help it. Interesting stuff falls into my head, and it never leaves.

 

[Barbarian]

Scientists are about as honest as used car salesmen. They don’t even trust each other.

Peer review is a very good thing, but it's not the real brake on dishonesty among scientists. You see, if they write a paper, and the results can't be reproduced, that scientist's career might well be over. It happens, sometimes. But given the penalty for dishonesty, you don't see too much blatant fraud out there. If you're going to write a faked scientific paper, the best way to go is to write it for a small, obscure journal, and avoid any representation that it's important knowledge. If you submit it to a major journal, or make great claims for a key discovery, people are likely to check your work.

There have been some real clinkers out there. Cold fusion, for example. The researchers goofed and made a key mistake. I don't think they published again. And that quack doctor that got Lancet to accept his faked study on vaccination and autism. Lancet, when the fraud was discovered, withdrew the paper and published a retraction.

The difference between science and a lot of other human activities, is when that happens, there are consequences.

 

[Barbarian]

I've never heard of Dr. James. But, Chuck Missler was explaing all this stuff years ago. The liken a single cell to be a city with many different functions, construction, delivery and all that stuff. In a single cell. He said our DNA is an error correcting code. Many cells repair themselves. (but we already knew that!)

The interesting thing is, there's a lot of work on this. The first major issue is Eigen's Paradox. Without some form of error-correction a genome of sufficient size is very likely to have castastrophic mutations. Eigen thought about 100 base pairs. But an error-correction system would almost certainly require a genome of more than 100 base pairs.

One way out of that would be a religious assumption; God just poofed the first living things, and the already had error correction. Darwin for example supposed that God just created the first living things out of existing molecules on Earth. However, Eigen's Paradox assumes that the first organism used DNA in the form we see now. It's very likely that the first nucleic acids were simpler and more "sturdy." There's a pretty good discussion of the idea here:

Error threshold (evolution) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The two proposed solutions are not the only ones at present. One clue is that RNA viruses have very high mutation rates, maybe a million times those found in eukaryotic organisms. Given that RNA likely existed before DNA (one form is self-catalyzing) this is an unsolved problem.

 

[jasonc]

I'm not a theistic evolutionists nor a fan of engineers but the general statement made about science ?

Well we are communicating through the proven methods of several fields .
Aeronautic engineering ,software engineering,and electrical engineering .

The electric wars deserves a thread had Tesla not been rejected we might all be using DC power .Westinghouse was working on ac power but Tesla got it working for him ..

Electric power transmission and distribution hasn't really changed that much .sure we went from button and bare wires for internal wiring with copper wire guage for fuses to the coin based fuses to circuit breakers and insulated wiring with gfi and grounded sockets versus the neutral hot set up . house having grounds versus the water line being a ground
This is based on observable things .


Perfect ? No
With the way people are here I'm surprised that no one has posted out theories on electricity .

Ie the power companies reduce power so that you pay more.perpetual motion generators and power via transmission which btw works and we use It for cell phone chargers but on a large scale it's not worth it .

 

[BeyondET]

I've never heard of Dr. James. But, Chuck Missler was explaing all this stuff years ago. The liken a single cell to be a city with many different functions, construction, delivery and all that stuff. In a single cell. He said our DNA is an error correcting code. Many cells repair themselves. (but we already knew that!)

The sun has alot to do with things. even UV light from a star will damage both cells yet needed to sustain them, supply the ingredients of life.

 

[BeyondET]

Some nanoparticles of certain metals, can interact with the hydrogen peroxide that is present in every cell, and convert it to a hydroxyl radical, which can potentially damage DNA. there's so many factors involved science is just scratching the surface.

 

[Edward]

The interesting thing is, there's a lot of work on this. The first major issue is Eigen's Paradox. Without some form of error-correction a genome of sufficient size is very likely to have castastrophic mutations. Eigen thought about 100 base pairs. But an error-correction system would almost certainly require a genome of more than 100 base pairs.

One way out of that would be a religious assumption; God just poofed the first living things, and the already had error correction. Darwin for example supposed that God just created the first living things out of existing molecules on Earth. However, Eigen's Paradox assumes that the first organism used DNA in the form we see now. It's very likely that the first nucleic acids were simpler and more "sturdy." There's a pretty good discussion of the idea here:

Error threshold (evolution) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The two proposed solutions are not the only ones at present. One clue is that RNA viruses have very high mutation rates, maybe a million times those found in eukaryotic organisms. Given that RNA likely existed before DNA (one form is self-catalyzing) this is an unsolved problem.

I can't really address any of that cuz I am not a scientist but I try to and read and listen with interest. And I still get it, the gist of it at least. And that is that, microscopes are getting better and better. Look! it's not a blob of jelly, it has...structure.

So with the next wave of technological improvements of the microscopes, we will see more, and understand more. And most of their new discoveries all point directly to what the bible has been saying all along.

I read some stuff, they are working on making it possible to play back video movies from a persons DNA. Wow. Our DNA contains the record of our entire life, as well as all of our ancestors in our bloodline on earth.
Wouldn't that be something?!

(what would that do to the judicial system?!)

 

[Barbarian]

The electric wars deserves a thread had Tesla not been rejected we might all be using DC power .

Yes. Edison wanted direct current. The problem is that there's no efficient way to conduct DC efficiently over long distances. We'd have generators in every neighborhood, if we used DC.

Inductive charging (like your Qi-enabled cell phone) works if the device needs little power and it's close to the conducting wires. The more current, the farther it works.

 

[GodsGrace]

Scientists are about as honest as used car salesmen. They don’t even trust each other.

I have found this to be true just from watching YouTube.
I like to hear them speak about different topics.
Right now I'm listening to a lot about the origin of life.
Yes, they don't agree.
But it does seem impossible that it could have started all on its very own.

 

[GodsGrace]

Tour is interesting. He's a chemist with no actual work in biology, an evangelical Christian, who has distanced himself from the intelligent design movement, but apparently (like Behe) thinks evolution is a fact, with God needing to step in and fix things now and then. Like a lot of creationists (which Tour apparently isn't) he often confuses evolution with the origin of life:

James M Tour Group » Evolution/Creation

I don't believe Dr. Tour confusess evolution with origin of life.
In fact, he always says that the two are constantly confused...which means he surely knows the difference.