Who is the God of this world?

[dadof10]

I don't see how this doesn't mean that Jesus isn't currently reigning as king.

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.
Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."
Joh 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. (ESV)

Clearly then, Jesus's death and resurrection were the time when "the ruler of this world" would be "cast out." This is a reference, of course, to Satan. So if Satan was judged then and cast out as ruler, either no one is ruling or Jesus is King. But seeing has how there are many references throughout the NT to the Kingdom of God being here on earth now, I don't see how Jesus cannot currently be king.

How can anyone argue with this logic?

 

[John 8:32]

Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

When does this happen?


Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

 

[Elijah674]

Dan 2:36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
Dan 2:37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Dan 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
Dan 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
Dan 2:41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

When does this happen?


Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

And up until the time that we have been resurrected (if we don't die before this time) we LIVE BY FAITH. Again Heb. 11
[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

and verse 13...

[13] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

--Elijah

 

[Free]

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

So what Kingdom is Jesus king of now?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (ESV)

This agrees with what I have already stated, namely, that the Kingdom of God has been established already and Jesus is currently reigning as king. To be fair, there certainly does seem to be a past, present, and future sense of the kingdom, which can cause confusion.

 

[George Muller]

How bout "who is the god of this age"

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal

 

[smaller]

Jesus clearly has enemies yet remaining post Resurrection to 'deal with,' the last enemy being the power of death.

s

 

[John 8:32]

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

So what Kingdom is Jesus king of now?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (ESV)

This agrees with what I have already stated, namely, that the Kingdom of God has been established already and Jesus is currently reigning as king. To be fair, there certainly does seem to be a past, present, and future sense of the kingdom, which can cause confusion.

He is set down with His Father currently...

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Notice here that He WILL grant - future tense. He is currently set down with the Father in the Father's throne. The 22nd and 23rd verses of I cor 15 tell us the Time frame of the beginning of His Kingdom...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

He has not returned yet...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

He begins to parcel out these rewards when He returns...

Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This has not happened yet, it happens at His return.

 

[Free]

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

So what Kingdom is Jesus king of now?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (ESV)

This agrees with what I have already stated, namely, that the Kingdom of God has been established already and Jesus is currently reigning as king. To be fair, there certainly does seem to be a past, present, and future sense of the kingdom, which can cause confusion.

He is set down with His Father currently...

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Notice here that He WILL grant - future tense. He is currently set down with the Father in the Father's throne. The 22nd and 23rd verses of I cor 15 tell us the Time frame of the beginning of His Kingdom...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

He has not returned yet...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

He begins to parcel out these rewards when He returns...

Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This has not happened yet, it happens at His return.

I don't see how any of this addresses the idea that Jesus is reigning as king right now, as 1 Cor 15:24 and 25 clearly imply.

 

[John 8:32]

God establishes His Kingdom at the end time when Christ returns and vanquishes the final ten kings. Happens at His return.

So what Kingdom is Jesus king of now?

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (ESV)

This agrees with what I have already stated, namely, that the Kingdom of God has been established already and Jesus is currently reigning as king. To be fair, there certainly does seem to be a past, present, and future sense of the kingdom, which can cause confusion.

He is set down with His Father currently...

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Notice here that He WILL grant - future tense. He is currently set down with the Father in the Father's throne. The 22nd and 23rd verses of I cor 15 tell us the Time frame of the beginning of His Kingdom...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

He has not returned yet...

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

He begins to parcel out these rewards when He returns...

Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This has not happened yet, it happens at His return.

I don't see how any of this addresses the idea that Jesus is reigning as king right now, as 1 Cor 15:24 and 25 clearly imply.

I think we see this differently. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. (Another way of saying you ain't changed my mind, LOL.)

 

[Free]

I don't see how any of this addresses the idea that Jesus is reigning as king right now, as 1 Cor 15:24 and 25 clearly imply.

I think we see this differently. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. (Another way of saying you ain't changed my mind, LOL.)

Well, without bringing in any other passages, how do 1 Cor 15:24-25 not imply that Jesus is currently reigning?

 

[Guest]

Who is reigning while we're still breathing on this earth. God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the intercessor and the devil tempts us through a sinful world. The definition of reign is dominating power or influence. We can say the Lord and the devil both have these, but it's up to the person to follow either the Lord or the devil based on free will. I would choose the Lord.

 

[John 8:32]

I don't see how any of this addresses the idea that Jesus is reigning as king right now, as 1 Cor 15:24 and 25 clearly imply.

I think we see this differently. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. (Another way of saying you ain't changed my mind, LOL.)

Well, without bringing in any other passages, how do 1 Cor 15:24-25 not imply that Jesus is currently reigning?

Well, Christ begins His reign at the time of His return. He establishes the Kingdom, as I believe the previous parables show, at His return. He then reigns here on the earth for the Millenium. This is shown in Rev 20. At the end of the Millenium is the GWTJ and the judgment that condems to the Lake of Fire. After this is accomplished, He gives the Kingdom to the Father in Rev 21. He is not reigning on the earth currently but when He does we will see this...

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Isa 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isa 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Amo 9:13 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

And many more wonderful prophecies of the result of Christ ruling and reigning on the earth.

 

[John 8:32]

Who is reigning while we're still breathing on this earth. God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the intercessor and the devil tempts us through a sinful world. The definition of reign is dominating power or influence. We can say the Lord and the devil both have these, but it's up to the person to follow either the Lord or the devil based on free will. I would choose the Lord.

Ultimately God is in charge, but He has given the Devil to reign on the earth for the six days. whereas Christ will directly intervene, cast Satan into prison and reign for the remaining day. The Sabbath day of rest (the Millenium).

 

[Guest]

Who is reigning while we're still breathing on this earth. God the Father is the creator, Jesus is the intercessor and the devil tempts us through a sinful world. The definition of reign is dominating power or influence. We can say the Lord and the devil both have these, but it's up to the person to follow either the Lord or the devil based on free will. I would choose the Lord.

Ultimately God is in charge, but He has given the Devil to reign on the earth for the six days. whereas Christ will directly intervene, cast Satan into prison and reign for the remaining day. The Sabbath day of rest (the Millenium).

6 days?? No, I mean right now!

 

[Free]

I don't see how any of this addresses the idea that Jesus is reigning as king right now, as 1 Cor 15:24 and 25 clearly imply.

I think we see this differently. Perhaps we should agree to disagree. (Another way of saying you ain't changed my mind, LOL.)

Well, without bringing in any other passages, how do 1 Cor 15:24-25 not imply that Jesus is currently reigning?

Well, Christ begins His reign at the time of His return. He establishes the Kingdom, as I believe the previous parables show, at His return. He then reigns here on the earth for the Millenium. This is shown in Rev 20. At the end of the Millenium is the GWTJ and the judgment that condems to the Lake of Fire. After this is accomplished, He gives the Kingdom to the Father in Rev 21. He is not reigning on the earth currently but when He does we will see this..

I asked you to do it without bringing in other passages. Regardless, none of them show that Jesus isn't currently reigning as king. Looking again at the passage:

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. (ESV)

The "end," when Jesus "delivers the kingdom to God the Father," is at his return, when he comes in judgement, so that is not when his reign begins.