Shilohsfoal
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No ,thats not what I said.
Im talking about God's chosen people.A priestly nation.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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No ,thats not what I said.
Im talking about God's chosen people.A priestly nation.
Shilohsfoal
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If the 144,000 are the womans seed then it appears some of them got left behind here.
Rev 12;17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God,and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
If in fact those who shall rule with a rod of iron dont die then how are these that died the ones that are sitting on thrones?Ive always thought a throne is where one rules from. Perhaps you can school me on this little problem?
Rev 20;4
And I saw thrones,and they sat upon them,and Judgement was given unto them;and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus,and for the word of God,and which had not worshiped the beast,neither his image,neither had recieved his mark upon the foreheads,or in thier hands;and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20;6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first ressurection;on such the second death hath no power,but they shall be priests of God and of Christ,and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Shilohsfoal
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Has anyone noticed that the 144,000 are sealed in the foreheads AFTER the tribulation?
Shilohsfoal
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Below is the events in Rev 6 that are written to take place before the 144,000 are sealed.Compare that to the events Jesus said would take place after the tribulation in MAT 24.
Rev 6;12-13
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,and lo,there was a great earthquake;and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,and the moon became as blood;And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Mat 24;29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,and the moon shall not give her light,and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
Rev 6;12-13
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal,and lo,there was a great earthquake;and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair,and the moon became as blood;And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth,even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Mat 24;29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened,and the moon shall not give her light,and the stars shall fall from heaven,and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
. I don't really think you should be lashing out like that at me.Shilohsfoal said:
The remnant of Israel that did not flee from Judea into the wilderness when the mainbody of the nation does. They were not saved when the 144,000 are all translated as the manchild before this war on Israel (Rev.12:5; 14:1-5). Every one whose name is written in the book of life in Israel will go at that time (Rev.7:1-3; 14:1-5; Dan.12:1). These will have turned to God and believed on Jesus Christ after seeing the 144,000 Jewish Christians missing all of the sudden from the earth.
Shilohsfoal said:
Glad to, but don't get the wrong idea about me by the comments of others.
The thrones here are those that saints will have, proving that all saints will rule with Christ in some capacity as kings and priests (Rev.1:6; 2:26-27; 3:21; 5:10; 12:5; 20:4-6; 22:4-5). Look at the last phrase of Rev.20:4. "They"...(the tribulation saints) lived (were resurrected) and reigned with Christ 1,000 years.
Here's the answer to your next question. The great multitude of tribulation saints who are saved after the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, and during the whole of Daniel's 70th week (Rev.6:1-19:21). The first martyrs of this period are told to rest until the rest of them are killed (Rev.6:9-11) when vengeance will be taken and all raptured in time for the marriage supper (Rev.7:9-17; 15:2-4; 20:4-6). Even those killed by the beast in the last 3 1/2 years of the week will have part in the first resurrection (Rev.20:4-6). This proves their rapture in time for the marriage supper (Rev.19:1-10) and in time to come back with Christ (Rev.19:11-21; Jude 14; Zech.14:5).
Shilohsfoal said:
Rev.6:12-13 and Mat.24:29 are roughly 7 years apart. 5 times the sun is darkened in the 70th week.
1) During the 6th seal in the early part of the week (Rev.6:12)
2) During the 4th trumpet (Rev.8:12).
3) During the 5th trumpet (Rev.9:2).
4) During the 5th vial at the end of the week (Rev.16:10).
5) Immediately after the Tribulation at the Second Advent (Mat.24:29; Isa.13:10; Eze.32:7-8; Joel 2:31; 3:15; Acts 2:16-21
The moon will also be affected 5 times, which corresponds to the sun darkening.
Rev 4:1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.
This verse is a "time indicator"
It tells us that everything after this verse is in the future. Rev 12 is in the future of this verse.
The woman cannot be national Israel. That understanding violates the whole rest of the chapter, which is talking about the antichrist beast of our time.
This verse is a "time indicator"
It tells us that everything after this verse is in the future. Rev 12 is in the future of this verse.
The woman cannot be national Israel. That understanding violates the whole rest of the chapter, which is talking about the antichrist beast of our time.
B
BatZion144
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Hi jsbdpmc,
What a comprehensive and very scriptural coverage you have given of the subject! I like your exegesis of the significant words :yes
A lot of reading in it. Ienjoyed it though but it's late here now so I'll be brief.
I'm going to have to read it again as to how you identify some of the groups. It isn't how I've understood them all so I'll have to think about it a bit.
In all a very uplifting post.
Blesings
BatZion144
What a comprehensive and very scriptural coverage you have given of the subject! I like your exegesis of the significant words :yes
A lot of reading in it. Ienjoyed it though but it's late here now so I'll be brief.
I'm going to have to read it again as to how you identify some of the groups. It isn't how I've understood them all so I'll have to think about it a bit.
In all a very uplifting post.
Blesings
BatZion144
Shilohsfoal
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XTruth said:
Only ONE time in Revelation will you find the sun being darkened as well as the moon and the stars falling from heaven unto the earth in the same sentence as Mat 24.
Only once. :yes
And that takes place after the tribulation.
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.jsbdpmc
Christian Forum Rookie
They are going to have to keep the works of Christ untill THE END.
"The end" is 2-fold; either the end of your life or the end of the age (Mat.10:22; 24:4-14). 5 TIMES the stars will become affected, corresponding with the sun being darkened and the moon darkening. Only twice are the stars spoken of as falling to the earth. 1st during the sixth seal (Rev.6:13), which is at the beginning part of the Tribulation, and then at the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns (Mat.24:29-31). You understand the wording of Mat.24 to be the end of the 7 year period, now read Rev.6 and understand the wording there that it is the beginning. This heavenly occurrance happens twice. Beginning of Trib starts in Rev.6:1 and the end is at the Second Coming of Rev.19. The seals, then the trumpets, then the vial judgments are in order.Shilohsfoal said:
Shilohsfoal
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I think me and you just have two different views of the word tribulation.
You see I believe the tribulation in Mat 24 is speaking of the persecution of the saints.
Wherein you believe God's wrath is the tribulation.
The persection of the saints will have ended when the 144,000 are sealed which is when the wrath begins.
Note the wrath of the Lamb mentioned just before the 144,000 are sealed.
Rev 6;17
For the great day of his wrath is come;and who shall be able to stand?
The book of Daniel speaks as this is a time of trouble when the people are deliverd.
Daniel 12;1
And at that time shall Michael stand up,the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people;and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time;and at that time thy people shall be deliverd,every one that shall be found written in the book.
As I understand it the tribulation begins when the armies of the gentiles enters Jerusalem in Dan 11;31.-Rev 6;8
The tribulation of the saints is actually mentioned in
Daniel 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil,many days.
And Rev 6;11
And white robes were given unto every one of them;and it was said unto them,that they should rest yet for a little season,untill thier fellow servants also and thier brethren,that should be killed as they were,should be forfilled
You see I believe the tribulation in Mat 24 is speaking of the persecution of the saints.
Wherein you believe God's wrath is the tribulation.
The persection of the saints will have ended when the 144,000 are sealed which is when the wrath begins.
Note the wrath of the Lamb mentioned just before the 144,000 are sealed.
Rev 6;17
For the great day of his wrath is come;and who shall be able to stand?
The book of Daniel speaks as this is a time of trouble when the people are deliverd.
Daniel 12;1
And at that time shall Michael stand up,the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people;and there shall be a time of trouble,such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time;and at that time thy people shall be deliverd,every one that shall be found written in the book.
As I understand it the tribulation begins when the armies of the gentiles enters Jerusalem in Dan 11;31.-Rev 6;8
The tribulation of the saints is actually mentioned in
Daniel 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil,many days.
And Rev 6;11
And white robes were given unto every one of them;and it was said unto them,that they should rest yet for a little season,untill thier fellow servants also and thier brethren,that should be killed as they were,should be forfilled
Quite possibly we are on different pages. When I say Tribulation time, I'm referring to the 7 years in between the time when Jesus comes back for the saints and when He comes back with the saints. I also see this as Daniel's 70th week. There will be people being born again after the Rapture of the church, so there will be saints alive through this period, but they were not saints when Christ came for His spottless church (Eph.5:27). This is how I see it.Shilohsfoal said:
I'm not following your thought process on what the later talk in Ch.12 of the beast has to do with proving the woman not to be national Israel, but I am always interested in your posts, so please explain...meanwhile, this is why I believe the woman of Rev.12:1 is national Israel who birthed 12,000 from 12 tribes to make the manchild the 144,000.Cornelius said:
Sun-Clothed Woman, The Identification of the
The Identification of the Woman
"And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars" (Rev. 12:1).
The word "appeared" would be better translated "was seen," for the Greek word horao meaning to perceive with the eyes, is used of bodily sight, and with special reference to the object looked at. The word "wonder" is from the Greek semeion, which means a sign, and should be so translated in every passage where it is used. It has regard to the significance of the work wrought, whether in itself, or in the reason, object, design and teaching intended to be conveyed by it. It occurs thirty-one times in Matthew, Mark, and Luke and is rendered "miracle" only once, Lk. 23:8. It occurs seventeen times in John and is quite wrongly translated "miracle" thirteen times and "sign" only four times. The word "wonder" should never be used for this word as the Greek word teras means "a wonder" and has regard to the effect produced on those who witness some mighty work. "There was seen a great sign in heaven" is the idea conveyed. The symbol was seen in heaven by John but what is symbolized by the woman is in the earth as is proven by the following:
1. The manchild will be caught up to heaven at its deliverance and such could not be true if the woman were in heaven, Rev. 12:5.
2. The woman will flee into the wilderness which is on earth, Rev. 12:6. (See point III on page 141.)
3. When the dragon is cast to the earth he will persecute the woman, Rev. 12:13.
4. The earth will help the woman and swallow the flood that is cast out of the dragon's mouth to devour her. This could not be said of her if she were in heaven, Rev. 12:15-16.
The woman is a symbol and we must deal with her as a symbol and clearly differentiate between her and the thing she symbolizes. Here the reader should review the interpretation on symbols in Chapter One. There is always, unless stated or clearly implied otherwise, only one central truth symbolized by a symbol and the details are not to be stressed. When details are given any attention at all they must harmonize with the main truth conveyed. This will eliminate all speculation on different parts of the symbol which are not stated or understood from other passages as having a separate meaning. That the woman could not be a symbol of the virgin Mary, the Church, or Christendom we shall see in the four theories on the manchild in the next chapter.
This woman symbolizes, we firmly believe, National Israel. By this term we mean all the Israelites who will be back in Palestine during the Seventieth Week and form the nation at that time, Joel 3; Zech. 9:10-16; 12:4-14; 13:8-9; 14:1-21; Mt. 24:15-26; Dan. 9:27. The Jews in all other lands will remain as they are today and will not be gathered back to their land until the second advent, Isa. 11:11-12; Ezek. 37:1-28; Mt. 24:31. Reasons why the woman symbolizes National Israel are:
1. Israel is often mentioned in the Old Testament as a married woman, Isa. 54:1-6; Jer. 3:1-14. The whole book of Hosea is devoted to show the marriage of Israel and God, her backslidings in playing the whore and leaving God, and her future humiliation and brokenness in the wilderness and return to her husband, Hos. 2:14-23; Rom. 11; Acts 15:13-18. Israel here is symbolized by a married woman to show the actions of the nation during the middle of the Week and on to the coming of Christ. Israel is the only company of people in Scripture that is spoken of as a married woman. The great religious system of the last days is symbolized by a "whore" and not by a married woman, Rev. 17.
2. The Bible recognizes only three classes of people in the world today: the Church, the Jews, and the Gentiles, 1 Cor. 10:32. At the time this woman travails, in the middle of the Week, the Church will have been removed from the earth leaving only the last two classes, as proven in chapters 6-8. The woman certainly could not be the Gentile world or the Jews in the Gentile world. She must be the Jews who have left the nations and returned to their own land to await their Messiah, as we shall see.
3. If the sun, moon, and twelve stars mean anything they can only symbolize the same as was seen in the dream of Joseph in Gen. 37:9-11, namely, the twelve tribal heads and their parents. Here the whole twelve tribes are seen in national restoration, in the symbol of the woman.
4. Israel is the only one dealt with in Scripture that could fulfill the statements concerning the woman as is clear from the following studies. (See Chapter Seven, point 6, for nineteen reasons why Israel is being dealt with in Rev. 6-19 instead of the Church, which prove the woman to be Israel.)
*(((â€â€Dake's Topics...from computer software of Dakes annotated Reference Bible.)))*
We believe that the manchild symbolizes the 144,000 Jews who are the "firstfruits" to God from Israel, after the rapture of all Jews of the church and the Old Testament Saints. The reasons for this belief are as follows:
1. It has been conclusively proved that the woman represents Israel. Since this is true, it follows logically that Israel could not bring forth a company of Gentiles. She is sure to bring forth a company and this company naturally will be from those or her own nationality, the Jews. She could not bring forth an individual person. Only an individual could do that. Thus, the manchild could only represent a company of Jews out of Israel. The woman represents a company of Jews. The "remnant" is a company of Jews, so the manchild necessarily must represent a company of Jews in order to fulfill the plain statements of Rev. 12. This alone would exclude the theory that Christ is the manchild. There is no other company of Jews definitely mentioned in the fulfillment of Rev. 4-19 in Daniel's Seventieth Week other than the 144,000. Then too, as the salvation and sealing of this company of Jews for protection through the trumpet judgments are the only ones described, it seems clear that these Jews are the ones to be caught up in the seventh trumpet as the manchild.
2. We have also seen that the woman cannot be the spirit of Christendom, or the church, and that the manchild cannot be the church, overcomers out of the church, or any Gentile Christians. Thus, by a process of elimination, we have left only one group of people, the Jews, from which to draw the personnel of the manchild. Therefore, what other company could be represented but the 144,000 Jews of Rev. 7 and 14? The manchild must be limited to one of the four companies of redeemed heavenly saints who are saved in the scope of redemption from Adam to the first resurrection, as enumerated in Point II, 1, above, which see. These companies are saved, dispensationally, in the order in which we give them. When one company is complete then the gathering of the succeeding one begins.
3. The manchild represents a company of living saints only, for the woman will travail and bring forth the complete manchild in the middle of the Week. She will not bring forth a partly dead and partly living child at this time. This seems clear from the very language of the chapter. The dragon will stand before the woman to devour her child as soon as it is born, but the child will be immediately "caught up to God and to his throne."
How could the dragon kill the manchild if it were composed of dead, or even resurrected people? Such a thing is an impossibility and therefore proves that the manchild must represent living people only, who will be living in their natural bodies and who will have the possibility of being killed. This eliminates the Old Testament Saints, the church saints, and the tribulation saints. The only remaining company of redeemed that has not been eliminated, and the only one composed wholly of living saints is the 144,000 Jews. They will be sealed to go through the first six trumpet judgments, and will be caught up under the seventh trumpet as the manchild. They are seen in Heaven throughout the last three and one-half years so they must be raptured in the middle of the Week (Rev. 14:1-5). By catching them up to his throne, God will supernaturally protect the manchild or 144,000 of Israel from the dragon and the Antichrist, when the latter breaks his covenant with Israel in the middle of the Week.
4. An examination of Rev. 7 and 14 proves that the 144,000 of Israel is the manchild. The main facts in these chapters are:
(1) The companies in both chapters are the same because both companies are sealed in their foreheads (Rev. 7:1-3,14:1), both are the same in number (Rev. 7:4; 14:1), and both have histories that are complete only when they are considered together. Chapters 7 and 14 of Revelation show the destiny, time of rapture, place or position in Heaven, and the occupation of the 144,000 Jews around the throne. There is nothing in these chapters or in any other Scripture that would lead us to believe that the 144,000 Jews of the two chapters are not the same; therefore, we naturally consider them the same.
(2) The destiny of the 144,000 Jews proves them to be the manchild (Rev. 14: 1-5). They will appear "before the throne" in Heaven and "before the four beasts and the elders" who are before the throne. It is expressly stated that they will be redeemed "from the earth" and "from among men." Therefore, they cannot be earthly people who will go through the last three and one-half years of tribulation, and who will form the nucleus around which the twelve tribes will be gathered in the Millennium. The fact that they will be in Heaven between the seventh trumpet and the first vial shows that they will have been raptured. Under these circumstances, if they are not raptured as the manchild in the middle of the Week, just when would they be raptured? The three messenger angels immediately following this vision of the 144,000 in Heaven, will proclaim their particular messages from the middle of the Week onward (Rev. 14: 6-l l), so it stands to reason that the vision will be fulfilled in the place it is given which is immediately after the manchild is caught up to God under the seventh trumpet, and before the vials and the ministry of the messenger angels.
(3) The time of the rapture of the 144,000 Jews shouts them to be represented by the manchild. If the 144,000 are seen on Earth up to the middle of the Week, and in Heaven immediately after the seventh trumpet which blows in the middle of the Week, then they are sure to be raptured as the manchild in the middle of the Week. We have seen that the Old Testament and the church saints will be caught up to Heaven before the Seventieth Week and that they will be with God in Heaven, represented by the elders. We have also seen that the tribulation saints will be martyred principally after the rapture of the manchild, but not caught up until about the end of the Week. The only other place for the insertion of the rapture of the 144,000 is in Rev. 12:5. Therefore, the manchild must be the 144,000 who will be caught up under the seventh trumpet, for, immediately after this trumpet they will be seen in Heaven before God (Rev. 14:1-5). In the circumstances, if the 144,000 are not to be raptured as the manchild, then how and when would it be possible for them to be raptured? Then too, where is the account of their rapture in the Bible? If the 144,000 are not the manchild, the history of the manchild is incomplete. Also if the catching up of the manchild is not the rapture of the 144,000, then mystery shrouds the rapture of the 144,000 as well as the destiny and position of the manchild around the throne. But when we once realize that the 144,000 and the manchild are the same, that John saw the 144,000 caught up to Heaven as the manchild in Rev. 12:5 and that the history of the manchild is completed in Rev. 14: 1-5, all mysteries and questions cease to be.
(4) The place in which John saw the 144,000 further proves that they will be in Heaven before the second advent of Christ to Earth, and necessarily must be raptured before then. When, if not as the manchild? John seemed to see this company at two places; namely, on Mount Zion, and in Heaven before God. Some argue that this Mount Zion is the earthly one and that the whole scene (Rev. 14:1-5) must be earthly, but we are convinced that Rev. 14:1 is heavenly, and refers to the heavenly Mount Zion because:
A. The rest of the verses refer to heavenly things. This cannot be disputed because the scenes in Heaven are pictured in such a plain language. The throne, the living creatures, and elders all show a heavenly setting. The throne referred to here does not come down to Earth from Heaven until after the Millennium, and then it is on the heavenly Mount Zion and in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:22; 22:3-5). If these verses (Rev. 14:2-5) picture heavenly things, then Rev. 14:1 does also.
B. The "Lamb" seen on Mount Zion with the 144,000 is never seen on Earth in the Revelation, but always in Heaven, as can be verified by the reader himself. When Christ comes to the Earth He will not be pictured as a lamb but as a mighty conqueror taking vengeance on the ungodly (Rev. 19:11-21).
C. All redeemed peoples who have part in the first resurrection will have their abode in the New Jerusalem, which is always spoken of in connection with heavenly, redeemed people (Heb. 11:10; 13:16; John 14:1-6; Rev. 21, 22). Paul states in Heb.12:18-24 that there is a heavenly Mount Zion, so if Rev. 14:2-5 speaks of heavenly things, the Mount Zion of Rev. 14:1 must be the heavenly one.
D. The earthly tabernacle, candlestick, table of shewbread, holy places, holy of holies, ark of the covenant, cherubims, mercy seat, etc., were all patterned after "things in heaven" (Heb. 8:1-5; 9:1-5, 23, 24). Is it unreasonable to believe that this Mount Zion is the heavenly one? Certainly the heavenly originals are just as real and literal as the earthly copies of things made from them. Moses was not the only one to see the heavenly originals, for John in the Revelation describes what he saw of them. They are enumerated as follows, but are studied in detail in Lesson Forty-one: the door to the heavenly tabernacle, throne, lamps, sea of glass, golden altar, golden censer, incense, temple, and ark of the covenant. Therefore, we conclude that the heavenly Mount Zion is the location of the temple of God in Heaven, as seen in Rev. 4:5; 11:19; 14:15, 17; 15:5-8; 16:1, 17; 21:2 - 22:7.
(5) The privileges of the 144,000 in Heaven show them to be a distinct company of redeemed from the Earth who will have part in the first resurrection. When, if not as the manchild? They will form one of the wonderful choirs of Heaven and sing a secret song that no man knows "but the hundred and forty and four thousand" (Rev. 14:1-3). The thought is not that others will not understand the words of the song but, not having had the particular experience it will describe, they will not be able to sing its particular message. The song will be accompanied by harps and sung before the throne and all heavenly inhabitants, but, apart from this, we know nothing about it. This is the only mention made of a song and no reference is made to the words or the nature of it. It is to be a new song, by a new company and with a new theme, which further indicates that those who sing it are saved and translated as a living company after the rapture of the church. They will have undergone the same trials, will have been protected from the same judgments, and will have been translated from the wrath of the dragon at the time that the woman travails, in the middle of the Week. Therefore, only the 144,000 will be able to sing this song.
It is further stated of the 144,000 that they will "follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth." This indicates their fellowship with Christ and the ability to follow Him anywhere in the universe as special "servants" of God and therefore they must become heavenly people in order to do this (Rev. 7:3; 14:1-5).
(6) The character of the 144,000 further shows them to be a special company of redeemed saints, saved and translated after the rapture of the church, and before the dragon is cast out of Heaven, in the middle of the Week, for the first three and one-half years is the only time they are seen on the Earth. Whenever they are seen after this, they are seen in Heaven before the throne of God. They "were not defiled with women: for they are virgins" (Rev. 14:4). This has no reference to celibacy, but to the pollutions connected with the great religious system dominating the nations of Revised Rome during the first three and one-half years, until the Antichrist rises to absolute power over the ten kings who together destroy Mystery Babylon in the middle of the Week (Rev. 17:14-18). The 144,000 will not be a company of natural virgins, but having abstained from fornication of Mystery Babylon, will be recognized as pure virgins and chaste in the same sense as in 2 Cor. 11:2. They are not mentioned in connection with Antichrist or anything that he does in the last three and one-half years, which seems to indicate that they will be translated before the Antichrist makes war on the saints.
"In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:5). This passage shows that the 144,000 must abide by the same rule of conduct to which the church and all other redeemed have been subjected (Eph. 5: 26, 27; Phil. 4:8; Col. 3:5, 16, etc.). This verse (Rev. 14:5) can be taken literally while Rev. 14:4 cannot possibly be taken so. This is true because Rev. 14:5 shows that the 144,000 have not been defiled with woman (indicating, if literal that the 144,000 were all men). On the other hand, Rev. 14:4 cannot be taken literally for this passage says the 144,000 are virgins (indicating, if literal, that they are women). Both meanings cannot be true. Hence, we take both passages to mean purity of life and conduct.
(7) The 144,000 are "firstfruits unto God and the Lamb" (Rev. 14:14). This definitely proves their salvation and translation after the rapture of the church. The "firstfruits" were always mentioned in connection with Israel in the Old Testament, speaking of the first gathering of the harvest, whether corn, wheat, or any other crop. Such "firstfruits" were offered to the Lord together with the tithes, as a recognition of earthly blessings from the hand of the Lord (Num. 15:20; 18:12; Neh. 10:35-37; Prov. 3:9, 10). In the New Testament the first converts are spoken of as "firstfruits" (1 Cor. 16:15). James, in writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, says "that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:1, 18). Christ is referred to as the "firstfruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20-23). From all these passages in both Testaments we gather that the "firstfruits" mean the first of the harvest gathered, or the first of mankind saved in any particular period. The 144,000 will be "firstfruits" and "of all the tribes of the children of Israel"; that is, the first Jews saved after the rapture of all Jews and Gentiles in Christ when the church is caught up (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23).
Now the question arises as to how the 144,000 will be firstfruits to God from Israel. It has already been proved that they will be saved and sealed after the rapture of the church and the Old Testament Saints who will be caught up in Rev. 4:1, as we have already proved in Lesson Forty-three. It cannot be denied that they will be living Jews all sealed in their foreheads after the sixth seal and before the first trumpet in the first three and one-half years as plainly stated in Rev. 7:1-8. If this is true, then they cannot be the firstfruits to God from Israel of the Old Testament period or of the church saints of this age, for the first Jews saved in these companies died centuries before and will have been raptured at Christ's coming in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-17). These 144,000 will be the first Jews saved between the rapture and the first trumpet, after all saved Jews are caught up in the rapture of the church. The awful wars, bloody persecutions, devastating famines and noisome pestilences in the first six seals, together with the closer knowledge of God and of the fulfillment of the rapture, will serve as powerful incentives in converting thousands of Jews and Gentiles. Hence the 144,000 Jews and the great multitude, which will be two different bodies of people, are seen in Rev. 7 between the sixth and seventh seals. The 144,000 will be sealed for protection through the trumpet judgments, and the great multitude will suffer martyrdom in the tribulation.
If the manchild, which represents a company of Israelites, as is now clear, were to be raptured before the 144,000, which is a company of Israelites, then the manchild would be the "firstfruits" to God from Israel and not the 144,000. But such cannot be true, for it is the 144,000 who are firstfruits to God from Israel. This proves that the 144,000 are the ones symbolized by the manchild, for the manchild will be the first company raptured after the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1.There is only one company of believers raptured after the church, until the rapture of the tribulation saints, which occurs about the end of the tribulation, and that company is symbolized by the manchild. Therefore, as the manchild and the 144,000 are both Israelites, and there is but one rapture for both, and since they are both seen in Heaven before the throne immediately after the seventh trumpet, they must be identical.
The 144,000 will be the firstfruits to God from Israel whereas the real harvest of Israel will be at the end of the tribulation when the nation is born at one time (Isa. 66:7,8; Rom. 11:26, 27). Since the firstfruits of the harvest in the Old Testament belonged to God and were used at His discretion, so these firstfruits of all Israel are dedicated especially to God and His service. In the harvest of grain after the gathering of the firstfruits, what remained was left to sustain natural life. In this manner, God will leave the harvest of Israel as an earthly people to continue their own nation and to help replenish the Earth with natural people forever (Isa. 9:6, 7; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 21, 22).
Thus all the facts mentioned above concerning the 144,000 in Rev. 7 and 14 seem to prove unquestionably their oneness with the manchild. If they are to be caught up before the manchild they must be translated after the fifth and sixth trumpets, for they will still be on Earth and protected during their fulfillment (Rev. 9:4). If they are not the same, then there are two translations and the first or 144,000 is not seen while the other is. The history of the 144,000 is resumed while the other is not. Thus mystery after mystery appears unless the 144,000 are recognized as the manchild.
5. The 144,000 will be sealed for the purpose of being protected through the trumpet judgment only, for immediately after the seventh trumpet, which includes the last verse of Rev. 13, we see them in Heaven as in the first five years of Rev. 14. It was said to the first four trumpet angels, who are to hurt the Earth, trees, and seas, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of cur God [144,000 Jews] in their foreheads" (Rev. 7:1-3). After the 144,000 are sealed the trumpets will begin. They will be immune from the first four plagues. They are not mentioned in connection with that time, but in the fifth trumpet, or first woe, a special directive is given to the demons of that woe not to hurt the 144,000 (Rev. 9:4). This protection also plainly applies to the demons of the sixth trumpet, or second woe, which immediately follows. The way God will protect the 144,000 under the seventh trumpet, or third woe, when Satan is cast out of Heaven, will be by translating them and thereby thwart the dragon in his purpose of devouring the manchild "as it is born." The dragon will be full of wrath because God will have protected them from the first six trumpet plagues so he will try to destroy them. But he will be defeated by God, who will translate the 144,000 to His throne. Then the dragon will turn on the woman who will have brought forth the manchild, but God will defeat him in all his machinations, as we have already seen. We find no mention of the 144,000 on Earth after the trumpet and after the catching up of the manchild. The very next view places them in Heaven (Rev. 14:1-5). Therefore, they are the company symbolized by the manchild who will be protected from the wrath of the dragon, Antichrist, and the vial plagues of the last three and one-half years of the Week by being translated.
6. It seems clear from the previous studies that the woman, manchild, and the remnant of the woman are all Jewish, and that these three are the only companies in Revelation that are Jewish. If this is true then the 144,000 must be one of the three companies since they are also Jewish. That the 144,000 are Jewish is clearly stated in Rev. 7:1-8; 14:1-5. Since they are Jewish and must be one of the three Jewish companies referred to by the woman, manchild, and remnant, which ones are they? They cannot be symbolized by the woman and they cannot be the remnant because of the following contrasts:
(1) The woman will be national Israel or all the Jews in Judea in the last days, while the 144,000 will form a group sealed out of Israel.
(2) The woman and the remnant will be earthly peoples while the 144,000 will be heavenly.
(3) The woman and remnant will be in travail while the 144,000 will not be.
(4) The woman will bring forth the manchild, while the 144,000 will not.
(5) A company will be taken out of the woman but not out of the 144,000 for they themselves are a company taken out of the woman.
(6) The woman will flee to the wilderness and the remnant will be left in Judea, while the 144,000 will be caught up to Heaven before the throne.
(7) The remnant will be left on Earth after the flight of the woman, while the 144,000 will be taken to Heaven as "firstfruits" of the woman before she flees. They will be the first of Israel to be translated to Heaven during this period.
(8) Neither is the number of the woman nor of the remnant given, while it is given in the case of the 144,000.
(9) Neither the woman nor the remnant will be sealed for protection while the 144,000 will be (Rev. 7:1-8; 9:4).
Now therefore, since the woman or the remnant cannot be the 144,000, or the manchild, the 144,000 and the manchild must be identical. The 144,000 form the only company that can possibly fill the requirements of the language of Rev. 12. The manchild represents a small company of Israelites out of all Israel. The 144,000 are a company from all Israel (Rev. 7:3). The manchild is caught up to the throne (Rev. 12:5) So are the 144,000 (Rev.14:1-5). The manchild is delivered from the dragon at the time of the travail of the woman (Rev. 12:1-6). So are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is the object of the vengeance of the dragon (Rev. 12:1-6). So are the 144,000, for otherwise they would not be protected by God from the demons (Rev. 9:4). The manchild is not mentioned on Earth after the seventh trumpet; neither are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is to rule the nations (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 as well as all saints, as we have seen in Point II, 1, above. The manchild is a heavenly company (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is a baby in size compared to the woman (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 compared to all Israel (Rev. 7:1-8). These and other correspondences prove that the manchild and the 144,000 are the same.
7. Daniel also pictured the rapture of the manchild saying, "At that time [beginning of the great tribulation] shall Michael stand up [as in Rev. 12:7-12 when the manchild is delivered], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Israel] and there shall be a time of trouble [three and one-half years of Dan. 12:7-13; Rev. 11:1-3; 12:5, 6, 14-16; 13:1-7], such as never was since there was a nation [Matt. 24:15-26; Jer. 30:7] even to that same time; and at that time [that Michael stands up to cast out Satan and deliver the manchild] thy people [Israel] shall be delivered [from Hebrew malat meaning to escape or to be rescued, implying a translation of Israel], every one [144,000] that shall be found written in the book" (Dan. 12:1). Such passages as Ex. 32:32, 33; Psalms 56:8; 69:28; Isa. 4:3; Ezek. 13:9; Luke 10:20, Rev. 3:5; 13:8, 17:8; 20:11-15 show that the reference in Dan. 12:1 refers to those found written in the book of life among Daniel's people at the middle of the Week who will escape the great tribulation. Christ plainly reveals to John that there will be 144,000 written in the book of life at that time (Rev. 7:1-8).
8. In Isa. 66:7, 8 we have another definite passage showing that Israel is to bring forth a manchild before she herself is delivered at the end of the week. This passage reads, "Before she [Israel] travailed for her own deliverance at the end of the week, Zech. 12:10-14], she was delivered of a manchild" (Isa. 66:7). That the pain and travail of Israel here is the one which results in her own deliverance at the end of the Week is the one referred to is clear from verse 8, which reads, "Who hath heard such a thing? . . . shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." But before this birth of a nation in one day "she brought forth a manchild" (Isa. 66:7-8). This is also made clear in Rom. 11:25-27. Who is the manchild that Israel is to bring forth before her own deliverance if it is not the 144,000 or "every one found written in the book" among Israel in the middle of the Week as is referred to in the above passages in Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 7:1-8; 12:5, 14:1-5? The manchild in Isaiah must be the same as the one in Revelation, for both passages are fulfilled at the same time and concern the same class of people. Because both passages refer to Israel as a whole and to the manchild as being a smaller group out of Israel and because neither the woman nor the remnant of the woman can be the manchild, the only others left to make up the manchild are the 144,000 Jews out of Israel. Therefore, we conclude that the manchild referred to in Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation is a symbol of the 144,000 Jews who are caught up to God as an heavenly people in the middle of the Week.
***â€â€Dake's Topics from computer software that goes w/ Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.***
1. It has been conclusively proved that the woman represents Israel. Since this is true, it follows logically that Israel could not bring forth a company of Gentiles. She is sure to bring forth a company and this company naturally will be from those or her own nationality, the Jews. She could not bring forth an individual person. Only an individual could do that. Thus, the manchild could only represent a company of Jews out of Israel. The woman represents a company of Jews. The "remnant" is a company of Jews, so the manchild necessarily must represent a company of Jews in order to fulfill the plain statements of Rev. 12. This alone would exclude the theory that Christ is the manchild. There is no other company of Jews definitely mentioned in the fulfillment of Rev. 4-19 in Daniel's Seventieth Week other than the 144,000. Then too, as the salvation and sealing of this company of Jews for protection through the trumpet judgments are the only ones described, it seems clear that these Jews are the ones to be caught up in the seventh trumpet as the manchild.
2. We have also seen that the woman cannot be the spirit of Christendom, or the church, and that the manchild cannot be the church, overcomers out of the church, or any Gentile Christians. Thus, by a process of elimination, we have left only one group of people, the Jews, from which to draw the personnel of the manchild. Therefore, what other company could be represented but the 144,000 Jews of Rev. 7 and 14? The manchild must be limited to one of the four companies of redeemed heavenly saints who are saved in the scope of redemption from Adam to the first resurrection, as enumerated in Point II, 1, above, which see. These companies are saved, dispensationally, in the order in which we give them. When one company is complete then the gathering of the succeeding one begins.
3. The manchild represents a company of living saints only, for the woman will travail and bring forth the complete manchild in the middle of the Week. She will not bring forth a partly dead and partly living child at this time. This seems clear from the very language of the chapter. The dragon will stand before the woman to devour her child as soon as it is born, but the child will be immediately "caught up to God and to his throne."
How could the dragon kill the manchild if it were composed of dead, or even resurrected people? Such a thing is an impossibility and therefore proves that the manchild must represent living people only, who will be living in their natural bodies and who will have the possibility of being killed. This eliminates the Old Testament Saints, the church saints, and the tribulation saints. The only remaining company of redeemed that has not been eliminated, and the only one composed wholly of living saints is the 144,000 Jews. They will be sealed to go through the first six trumpet judgments, and will be caught up under the seventh trumpet as the manchild. They are seen in Heaven throughout the last three and one-half years so they must be raptured in the middle of the Week (Rev. 14:1-5). By catching them up to his throne, God will supernaturally protect the manchild or 144,000 of Israel from the dragon and the Antichrist, when the latter breaks his covenant with Israel in the middle of the Week.
4. An examination of Rev. 7 and 14 proves that the 144,000 of Israel is the manchild. The main facts in these chapters are:
(1) The companies in both chapters are the same because both companies are sealed in their foreheads (Rev. 7:1-3,14:1), both are the same in number (Rev. 7:4; 14:1), and both have histories that are complete only when they are considered together. Chapters 7 and 14 of Revelation show the destiny, time of rapture, place or position in Heaven, and the occupation of the 144,000 Jews around the throne. There is nothing in these chapters or in any other Scripture that would lead us to believe that the 144,000 Jews of the two chapters are not the same; therefore, we naturally consider them the same.
(2) The destiny of the 144,000 Jews proves them to be the manchild (Rev. 14: 1-5). They will appear "before the throne" in Heaven and "before the four beasts and the elders" who are before the throne. It is expressly stated that they will be redeemed "from the earth" and "from among men." Therefore, they cannot be earthly people who will go through the last three and one-half years of tribulation, and who will form the nucleus around which the twelve tribes will be gathered in the Millennium. The fact that they will be in Heaven between the seventh trumpet and the first vial shows that they will have been raptured. Under these circumstances, if they are not raptured as the manchild in the middle of the Week, just when would they be raptured? The three messenger angels immediately following this vision of the 144,000 in Heaven, will proclaim their particular messages from the middle of the Week onward (Rev. 14: 6-l l), so it stands to reason that the vision will be fulfilled in the place it is given which is immediately after the manchild is caught up to God under the seventh trumpet, and before the vials and the ministry of the messenger angels.
(3) The time of the rapture of the 144,000 Jews shouts them to be represented by the manchild. If the 144,000 are seen on Earth up to the middle of the Week, and in Heaven immediately after the seventh trumpet which blows in the middle of the Week, then they are sure to be raptured as the manchild in the middle of the Week. We have seen that the Old Testament and the church saints will be caught up to Heaven before the Seventieth Week and that they will be with God in Heaven, represented by the elders. We have also seen that the tribulation saints will be martyred principally after the rapture of the manchild, but not caught up until about the end of the Week. The only other place for the insertion of the rapture of the 144,000 is in Rev. 12:5. Therefore, the manchild must be the 144,000 who will be caught up under the seventh trumpet, for, immediately after this trumpet they will be seen in Heaven before God (Rev. 14:1-5). In the circumstances, if the 144,000 are not to be raptured as the manchild, then how and when would it be possible for them to be raptured? Then too, where is the account of their rapture in the Bible? If the 144,000 are not the manchild, the history of the manchild is incomplete. Also if the catching up of the manchild is not the rapture of the 144,000, then mystery shrouds the rapture of the 144,000 as well as the destiny and position of the manchild around the throne. But when we once realize that the 144,000 and the manchild are the same, that John saw the 144,000 caught up to Heaven as the manchild in Rev. 12:5 and that the history of the manchild is completed in Rev. 14: 1-5, all mysteries and questions cease to be.
(4) The place in which John saw the 144,000 further proves that they will be in Heaven before the second advent of Christ to Earth, and necessarily must be raptured before then. When, if not as the manchild? John seemed to see this company at two places; namely, on Mount Zion, and in Heaven before God. Some argue that this Mount Zion is the earthly one and that the whole scene (Rev. 14:1-5) must be earthly, but we are convinced that Rev. 14:1 is heavenly, and refers to the heavenly Mount Zion because:
A. The rest of the verses refer to heavenly things. This cannot be disputed because the scenes in Heaven are pictured in such a plain language. The throne, the living creatures, and elders all show a heavenly setting. The throne referred to here does not come down to Earth from Heaven until after the Millennium, and then it is on the heavenly Mount Zion and in the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:22; 22:3-5). If these verses (Rev. 14:2-5) picture heavenly things, then Rev. 14:1 does also.
B. The "Lamb" seen on Mount Zion with the 144,000 is never seen on Earth in the Revelation, but always in Heaven, as can be verified by the reader himself. When Christ comes to the Earth He will not be pictured as a lamb but as a mighty conqueror taking vengeance on the ungodly (Rev. 19:11-21).
C. All redeemed peoples who have part in the first resurrection will have their abode in the New Jerusalem, which is always spoken of in connection with heavenly, redeemed people (Heb. 11:10; 13:16; John 14:1-6; Rev. 21, 22). Paul states in Heb.12:18-24 that there is a heavenly Mount Zion, so if Rev. 14:2-5 speaks of heavenly things, the Mount Zion of Rev. 14:1 must be the heavenly one.
D. The earthly tabernacle, candlestick, table of shewbread, holy places, holy of holies, ark of the covenant, cherubims, mercy seat, etc., were all patterned after "things in heaven" (Heb. 8:1-5; 9:1-5, 23, 24). Is it unreasonable to believe that this Mount Zion is the heavenly one? Certainly the heavenly originals are just as real and literal as the earthly copies of things made from them. Moses was not the only one to see the heavenly originals, for John in the Revelation describes what he saw of them. They are enumerated as follows, but are studied in detail in Lesson Forty-one: the door to the heavenly tabernacle, throne, lamps, sea of glass, golden altar, golden censer, incense, temple, and ark of the covenant. Therefore, we conclude that the heavenly Mount Zion is the location of the temple of God in Heaven, as seen in Rev. 4:5; 11:19; 14:15, 17; 15:5-8; 16:1, 17; 21:2 - 22:7.
(5) The privileges of the 144,000 in Heaven show them to be a distinct company of redeemed from the Earth who will have part in the first resurrection. When, if not as the manchild? They will form one of the wonderful choirs of Heaven and sing a secret song that no man knows "but the hundred and forty and four thousand" (Rev. 14:1-3). The thought is not that others will not understand the words of the song but, not having had the particular experience it will describe, they will not be able to sing its particular message. The song will be accompanied by harps and sung before the throne and all heavenly inhabitants, but, apart from this, we know nothing about it. This is the only mention made of a song and no reference is made to the words or the nature of it. It is to be a new song, by a new company and with a new theme, which further indicates that those who sing it are saved and translated as a living company after the rapture of the church. They will have undergone the same trials, will have been protected from the same judgments, and will have been translated from the wrath of the dragon at the time that the woman travails, in the middle of the Week. Therefore, only the 144,000 will be able to sing this song.
It is further stated of the 144,000 that they will "follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth." This indicates their fellowship with Christ and the ability to follow Him anywhere in the universe as special "servants" of God and therefore they must become heavenly people in order to do this (Rev. 7:3; 14:1-5).
(6) The character of the 144,000 further shows them to be a special company of redeemed saints, saved and translated after the rapture of the church, and before the dragon is cast out of Heaven, in the middle of the Week, for the first three and one-half years is the only time they are seen on the Earth. Whenever they are seen after this, they are seen in Heaven before the throne of God. They "were not defiled with women: for they are virgins" (Rev. 14:4). This has no reference to celibacy, but to the pollutions connected with the great religious system dominating the nations of Revised Rome during the first three and one-half years, until the Antichrist rises to absolute power over the ten kings who together destroy Mystery Babylon in the middle of the Week (Rev. 17:14-18). The 144,000 will not be a company of natural virgins, but having abstained from fornication of Mystery Babylon, will be recognized as pure virgins and chaste in the same sense as in 2 Cor. 11:2. They are not mentioned in connection with Antichrist or anything that he does in the last three and one-half years, which seems to indicate that they will be translated before the Antichrist makes war on the saints.
"In their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:5). This passage shows that the 144,000 must abide by the same rule of conduct to which the church and all other redeemed have been subjected (Eph. 5: 26, 27; Phil. 4:8; Col. 3:5, 16, etc.). This verse (Rev. 14:5) can be taken literally while Rev. 14:4 cannot possibly be taken so. This is true because Rev. 14:5 shows that the 144,000 have not been defiled with woman (indicating, if literal that the 144,000 were all men). On the other hand, Rev. 14:4 cannot be taken literally for this passage says the 144,000 are virgins (indicating, if literal, that they are women). Both meanings cannot be true. Hence, we take both passages to mean purity of life and conduct.
(7) The 144,000 are "firstfruits unto God and the Lamb" (Rev. 14:14). This definitely proves their salvation and translation after the rapture of the church. The "firstfruits" were always mentioned in connection with Israel in the Old Testament, speaking of the first gathering of the harvest, whether corn, wheat, or any other crop. Such "firstfruits" were offered to the Lord together with the tithes, as a recognition of earthly blessings from the hand of the Lord (Num. 15:20; 18:12; Neh. 10:35-37; Prov. 3:9, 10). In the New Testament the first converts are spoken of as "firstfruits" (1 Cor. 16:15). James, in writing to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, says "that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:1, 18). Christ is referred to as the "firstfruits" of the resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20-23). From all these passages in both Testaments we gather that the "firstfruits" mean the first of the harvest gathered, or the first of mankind saved in any particular period. The 144,000 will be "firstfruits" and "of all the tribes of the children of Israel"; that is, the first Jews saved after the rapture of all Jews and Gentiles in Christ when the church is caught up (1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Cor. 15:23).
Now the question arises as to how the 144,000 will be firstfruits to God from Israel. It has already been proved that they will be saved and sealed after the rapture of the church and the Old Testament Saints who will be caught up in Rev. 4:1, as we have already proved in Lesson Forty-three. It cannot be denied that they will be living Jews all sealed in their foreheads after the sixth seal and before the first trumpet in the first three and one-half years as plainly stated in Rev. 7:1-8. If this is true, then they cannot be the firstfruits to God from Israel of the Old Testament period or of the church saints of this age, for the first Jews saved in these companies died centuries before and will have been raptured at Christ's coming in the air (1 Thess. 4:13-17). These 144,000 will be the first Jews saved between the rapture and the first trumpet, after all saved Jews are caught up in the rapture of the church. The awful wars, bloody persecutions, devastating famines and noisome pestilences in the first six seals, together with the closer knowledge of God and of the fulfillment of the rapture, will serve as powerful incentives in converting thousands of Jews and Gentiles. Hence the 144,000 Jews and the great multitude, which will be two different bodies of people, are seen in Rev. 7 between the sixth and seventh seals. The 144,000 will be sealed for protection through the trumpet judgments, and the great multitude will suffer martyrdom in the tribulation.
If the manchild, which represents a company of Israelites, as is now clear, were to be raptured before the 144,000, which is a company of Israelites, then the manchild would be the "firstfruits" to God from Israel and not the 144,000. But such cannot be true, for it is the 144,000 who are firstfruits to God from Israel. This proves that the 144,000 are the ones symbolized by the manchild, for the manchild will be the first company raptured after the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1.There is only one company of believers raptured after the church, until the rapture of the tribulation saints, which occurs about the end of the tribulation, and that company is symbolized by the manchild. Therefore, as the manchild and the 144,000 are both Israelites, and there is but one rapture for both, and since they are both seen in Heaven before the throne immediately after the seventh trumpet, they must be identical.
The 144,000 will be the firstfruits to God from Israel whereas the real harvest of Israel will be at the end of the tribulation when the nation is born at one time (Isa. 66:7,8; Rom. 11:26, 27). Since the firstfruits of the harvest in the Old Testament belonged to God and were used at His discretion, so these firstfruits of all Israel are dedicated especially to God and His service. In the harvest of grain after the gathering of the firstfruits, what remained was left to sustain natural life. In this manner, God will leave the harvest of Israel as an earthly people to continue their own nation and to help replenish the Earth with natural people forever (Isa. 9:6, 7; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 21, 22).
Thus all the facts mentioned above concerning the 144,000 in Rev. 7 and 14 seem to prove unquestionably their oneness with the manchild. If they are to be caught up before the manchild they must be translated after the fifth and sixth trumpets, for they will still be on Earth and protected during their fulfillment (Rev. 9:4). If they are not the same, then there are two translations and the first or 144,000 is not seen while the other is. The history of the 144,000 is resumed while the other is not. Thus mystery after mystery appears unless the 144,000 are recognized as the manchild.
5. The 144,000 will be sealed for the purpose of being protected through the trumpet judgment only, for immediately after the seventh trumpet, which includes the last verse of Rev. 13, we see them in Heaven as in the first five years of Rev. 14. It was said to the first four trumpet angels, who are to hurt the Earth, trees, and seas, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of cur God [144,000 Jews] in their foreheads" (Rev. 7:1-3). After the 144,000 are sealed the trumpets will begin. They will be immune from the first four plagues. They are not mentioned in connection with that time, but in the fifth trumpet, or first woe, a special directive is given to the demons of that woe not to hurt the 144,000 (Rev. 9:4). This protection also plainly applies to the demons of the sixth trumpet, or second woe, which immediately follows. The way God will protect the 144,000 under the seventh trumpet, or third woe, when Satan is cast out of Heaven, will be by translating them and thereby thwart the dragon in his purpose of devouring the manchild "as it is born." The dragon will be full of wrath because God will have protected them from the first six trumpet plagues so he will try to destroy them. But he will be defeated by God, who will translate the 144,000 to His throne. Then the dragon will turn on the woman who will have brought forth the manchild, but God will defeat him in all his machinations, as we have already seen. We find no mention of the 144,000 on Earth after the trumpet and after the catching up of the manchild. The very next view places them in Heaven (Rev. 14:1-5). Therefore, they are the company symbolized by the manchild who will be protected from the wrath of the dragon, Antichrist, and the vial plagues of the last three and one-half years of the Week by being translated.
6. It seems clear from the previous studies that the woman, manchild, and the remnant of the woman are all Jewish, and that these three are the only companies in Revelation that are Jewish. If this is true then the 144,000 must be one of the three companies since they are also Jewish. That the 144,000 are Jewish is clearly stated in Rev. 7:1-8; 14:1-5. Since they are Jewish and must be one of the three Jewish companies referred to by the woman, manchild, and remnant, which ones are they? They cannot be symbolized by the woman and they cannot be the remnant because of the following contrasts:
(1) The woman will be national Israel or all the Jews in Judea in the last days, while the 144,000 will form a group sealed out of Israel.
(2) The woman and the remnant will be earthly peoples while the 144,000 will be heavenly.
(3) The woman and remnant will be in travail while the 144,000 will not be.
(4) The woman will bring forth the manchild, while the 144,000 will not.
(5) A company will be taken out of the woman but not out of the 144,000 for they themselves are a company taken out of the woman.
(6) The woman will flee to the wilderness and the remnant will be left in Judea, while the 144,000 will be caught up to Heaven before the throne.
(7) The remnant will be left on Earth after the flight of the woman, while the 144,000 will be taken to Heaven as "firstfruits" of the woman before she flees. They will be the first of Israel to be translated to Heaven during this period.
(8) Neither is the number of the woman nor of the remnant given, while it is given in the case of the 144,000.
(9) Neither the woman nor the remnant will be sealed for protection while the 144,000 will be (Rev. 7:1-8; 9:4).
Now therefore, since the woman or the remnant cannot be the 144,000, or the manchild, the 144,000 and the manchild must be identical. The 144,000 form the only company that can possibly fill the requirements of the language of Rev. 12. The manchild represents a small company of Israelites out of all Israel. The 144,000 are a company from all Israel (Rev. 7:3). The manchild is caught up to the throne (Rev. 12:5) So are the 144,000 (Rev.14:1-5). The manchild is delivered from the dragon at the time of the travail of the woman (Rev. 12:1-6). So are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is the object of the vengeance of the dragon (Rev. 12:1-6). So are the 144,000, for otherwise they would not be protected by God from the demons (Rev. 9:4). The manchild is not mentioned on Earth after the seventh trumpet; neither are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is to rule the nations (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 as well as all saints, as we have seen in Point II, 1, above. The manchild is a heavenly company (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). The manchild is a baby in size compared to the woman (Rev. 12:5). So are the 144,000 compared to all Israel (Rev. 7:1-8). These and other correspondences prove that the manchild and the 144,000 are the same.
7. Daniel also pictured the rapture of the manchild saying, "At that time [beginning of the great tribulation] shall Michael stand up [as in Rev. 12:7-12 when the manchild is delivered], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people [Israel] and there shall be a time of trouble [three and one-half years of Dan. 12:7-13; Rev. 11:1-3; 12:5, 6, 14-16; 13:1-7], such as never was since there was a nation [Matt. 24:15-26; Jer. 30:7] even to that same time; and at that time [that Michael stands up to cast out Satan and deliver the manchild] thy people [Israel] shall be delivered [from Hebrew malat meaning to escape or to be rescued, implying a translation of Israel], every one [144,000] that shall be found written in the book" (Dan. 12:1). Such passages as Ex. 32:32, 33; Psalms 56:8; 69:28; Isa. 4:3; Ezek. 13:9; Luke 10:20, Rev. 3:5; 13:8, 17:8; 20:11-15 show that the reference in Dan. 12:1 refers to those found written in the book of life among Daniel's people at the middle of the Week who will escape the great tribulation. Christ plainly reveals to John that there will be 144,000 written in the book of life at that time (Rev. 7:1-8).
8. In Isa. 66:7, 8 we have another definite passage showing that Israel is to bring forth a manchild before she herself is delivered at the end of the week. This passage reads, "Before she [Israel] travailed for her own deliverance at the end of the week, Zech. 12:10-14], she was delivered of a manchild" (Isa. 66:7). That the pain and travail of Israel here is the one which results in her own deliverance at the end of the Week is the one referred to is clear from verse 8, which reads, "Who hath heard such a thing? . . . shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." But before this birth of a nation in one day "she brought forth a manchild" (Isa. 66:7-8). This is also made clear in Rom. 11:25-27. Who is the manchild that Israel is to bring forth before her own deliverance if it is not the 144,000 or "every one found written in the book" among Israel in the middle of the Week as is referred to in the above passages in Dan. 12:1 and Rev. 7:1-8; 12:5, 14:1-5? The manchild in Isaiah must be the same as the one in Revelation, for both passages are fulfilled at the same time and concern the same class of people. Because both passages refer to Israel as a whole and to the manchild as being a smaller group out of Israel and because neither the woman nor the remnant of the woman can be the manchild, the only others left to make up the manchild are the 144,000 Jews out of Israel. Therefore, we conclude that the manchild referred to in Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation is a symbol of the 144,000 Jews who are caught up to God as an heavenly people in the middle of the Week.
***â€â€Dake's Topics from computer software that goes w/ Dake's Annotated Reference Bible.***
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BatZion144
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Xtruth you have linked up the manchild with the 144,000 which the original poster confused. :yes
In the original post on this thread, the 2 witnesses were said to be of the laodecian church and the "remnant" of Revelation 12:17.
I would like to present to the forum that this is not possible as although they were clothed in sackcloth which was interpreted as them repenting during the time of the Tribulation, they also had the authority to "strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire" (Rev.11:6)
That says to me that they had authority with Yahweh God and a ministry that paralleled Moses' and Elijah's ministry.
Actually the symbols used for them link back to Zechariah Ch.4 - they are "olive trees" and "anointed ones" who stand in a privileged position before the Lord of the whole earth as did Zechariah and the High priest Joshua. So it is completely inconsistent that they are the "remnant" of Rev.12;17.
In the original post on this thread, the 2 witnesses were said to be of the laodecian church and the "remnant" of Revelation 12:17.
I would like to present to the forum that this is not possible as although they were clothed in sackcloth which was interpreted as them repenting during the time of the Tribulation, they also had the authority to "strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire" (Rev.11:6)
That says to me that they had authority with Yahweh God and a ministry that paralleled Moses' and Elijah's ministry.
Actually the symbols used for them link back to Zechariah Ch.4 - they are "olive trees" and "anointed ones" who stand in a privileged position before the Lord of the whole earth as did Zechariah and the High priest Joshua. So it is completely inconsistent that they are the "remnant" of Rev.12;17.
I believe the woman is New Jerusalem, who Paul says is the ''mother of us all''.
Remember when Joseph saw the sun as his father and the moon as his mother? Well she stands on the moon (mother) and clothed with the sun (Father).
This, I believe is Messiah son of Joseph, who redeems heaven by fulfilling Atonement in heaven (in Spirit). It is the blood of a calf and the blood of a goat that is sprinkled on the mercy seat (in heaven). Because Jesus did away with the carnal obligation of the Law the end timne feasts could only be fulfilled in the spirit.
The robe of Joseph was dipped in the blood of a kid goat, and Moises called Joseph a bullock of the first year (calf). When the manchild is taken up to heaven then a war breaks out. Jesus overcome Satan in Heaven just like He overcame Satan on earth in His physical death and resurrection.
But Jesus also had to overcome spiritual death (atonement) the second death...
And when Satan is cast down to earth he then makes war with the rest of the remnant (the resurrected saints). So I believe the manchild to be one person who bares the attacks of Satan and then Satan goes after the others...After he is cast out of heaven.
Remember when Joseph saw the sun as his father and the moon as his mother? Well she stands on the moon (mother) and clothed with the sun (Father).
This, I believe is Messiah son of Joseph, who redeems heaven by fulfilling Atonement in heaven (in Spirit). It is the blood of a calf and the blood of a goat that is sprinkled on the mercy seat (in heaven). Because Jesus did away with the carnal obligation of the Law the end timne feasts could only be fulfilled in the spirit.
The robe of Joseph was dipped in the blood of a kid goat, and Moises called Joseph a bullock of the first year (calf). When the manchild is taken up to heaven then a war breaks out. Jesus overcome Satan in Heaven just like He overcame Satan on earth in His physical death and resurrection.
But Jesus also had to overcome spiritual death (atonement) the second death...
And when Satan is cast down to earth he then makes war with the rest of the remnant (the resurrected saints). So I believe the manchild to be one person who bares the attacks of Satan and then Satan goes after the others...After he is cast out of heaven.
The Bible tells of two groups of 144000
1) From Israel
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:
2) From all mankind. (these are the first fruits)
Rev 14:4 ..........These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.
1) From Israel
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:
2) From all mankind. (these are the first fruits)
Rev 14:4 ..........These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.