Who Is The Root We're Grafted Into?

[D-D-W]

Have you considered God speaks in many ways?

1 Corinthians 14:21 kjv
21. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Romans1:20

eddif

I am aware of that. I am also aware that God raises the dead, but it does not happen very often.

BTW, 1 Corinthians 14:21 in context is talking about the gift of tongues, not really relevant to this discussion.

 

[eddif]

I am aware of that. I am also aware that God raises the dead, but it does not happen very often.

BTW, 1 Corinthians 14:21 in context is talking about the gift of tongues, not really relevant to this discussion.

1 Corinthians 14:21
Mentions the law

Isaiah 28:9 kjv
9. Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11. For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Deuteronomy 28:49
Jeremiah 5:15
…..
Sometimes in the OT the captors would tell that they were sent by The God of the Jews to punish them.
Sometimes it is prophecy about NT things to come.

Acts 2:12 kjv
12. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13. Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15. For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel

The good guys listened, but the bad guys rejected.

We all struggle while wearing our welding helmet. One day we will see clearly,

eddif

 

[Blade]

Gonna have to look in to this "root" I think a year or so ago asking Him about do you love me as much as some Jewish person.. lol I know.. but was listening to Jewish stories of how they came to Christ and how people like me had THEIR God. Their God? At first the stories made me cry but.. their God? So I just asked Him do you love me just as much.. I see this hand come down with this tiny tree.. so beautiful. I have never seen a tree with so many branches. Yet every branch was in the shape of a "U".

I had tried to picture me and some Jewish person and then asked Him this. So He places the tree between us and says "show me a branch that was not originally of the vine. I am the vine you are the branches". I wanted to hear "I love you just as much". Yet this is how He answered it. Then took me over a year to understand what branches are "originally" of the vine? I had no clue what He meant.

I do see what your saying its just.. not going to touch it now.

 

[eddif]

D-D-W here is an Egyptian king speaking ( I have no idea of the language he sent , but I suppose he did most of his thinking in his native language order).

2 Chronicles 35:20 kjv
20. After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.
21. But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who iswith me, that he destroy thee not.

That instance has always kind of messed with my mind. A pagan king knew of the call of God (capital letter) .

eddif

 

[jaybo]

D-D-W here is an Egyptian king speaking ( I have no idea of the language he sent , but I suppose he did most of his thinking in his native language order).

2 Chronicles 35:20 kjv
20. After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.
21. But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who iswith me, that he destroy thee not.

That instance has always kind of messed with my mind. A pagan king knew of the call of God (capital letter) .

eddif

Why not? God can speak to anyone whom He chooses. If that wasn't the case none of us would be Christians.

 

[eddif]

Why not? God can speak to anyone whom He chooses. If that wasn't the case none of us would be Christians.

I know. But as you read Romans 3 and see the advantages of the Jew. And contrast it with:

Ephesians 2:12 kjv
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

And realizing Gentiles barley got in.

God just does not think like us. My little
Pea Brain is just blown way away.

eddif

 

[jaybo]

I know. But as you read Romans 3 and see the advantages of the Jew. And contrast it with:

Ephesians 2:12 kjv
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

And realizing Gentiles barley got in.

God just does not think like us. My little
Pea Brain is just blown way away.

eddif

Barely got in? That's like saying I barely got in the bath. You're either in or you're not.

 

[eddif]

Barely got in? That's like saying I barely got in the bath. You're either in or you're not.

Romans 11:17 kjv
17. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

20.Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear
21. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.

Just a call for humble thought. Which I thought (blow my mind) was.

We are in by grace.

eddif

 

[D-D-W]

D-D-W here is an Egyptian king speaking ( I have no idea of the language he sent , but I suppose he did most of his thinking in his native language order).

2 Chronicles 35:20 kjv
20. After all this, when Josiah had prepared the temple, Necho king of Egypt came up to fight against Carchemish by Euphrates: and Josiah went out against him.
21. But he sent ambassadors to him, saying, What have I to do with thee, thou king of Judah? I come not against thee this day, but against the house wherewith I have war: for God commanded me to make haste: forbear thee from meddling with God, who iswith me, that he destroy thee not.

That instance has always kind of messed with my mind. A pagan king knew of the call of God (capital letter) .

eddif

The capital G on god is the translator's commentary since the original language did not have upper or lower case letters. We do not know what "god" sent him against Carchemish. Maybe it was the God of the Jews, or maybe it was one of his Egyptian mythology "gods."

 

[eddif]

The capital G on god is the translator's commentary since the original language did not have upper or lower case letters. We do not know what "god" sent him against Carchemish. Maybe it was the God of the Jews, or maybe it was one of his Egyptian mythology "gods."

Verse 21 God is וֵאלֹהִ֖ים
Verse 22 God is אֱלֹהִ֑ים

I thought verse 22 was the God of Israel

Explain please without Jewish or Gentile side notes / Capitol letters

eddif

 

[D-D-W]

Verse 21 God is וֵאלֹהִ֖ים
Verse 22 God is אֱלֹהִ֑ים

I thought verse 22 was the God of Israel
Explain please without Jewish or Gentile side notes / Capitol letters

Both are the same word. Elohim. It means literally "gods," and can refer to the God of Israel, but can also refer to the other gods of the nations.

The difference in spelling, the prefix v'- in verse 21, is simply an "and."

 

[eddif]

Both are the same word. Elohim. It means literally "gods," and can refer to the God of Israel, but can also refer to the other gods of the nations.

The difference in spelling, the prefix v'- in verse 21, is simply an "and."

Now using PaRDeS
Does the (and) expand the word for God?

Ok really I am asking: does the Father, Son, Holy Spirit appear with the use of and?

Gentile side notes can wreck scripture or in some rare cases maybe help. Jewish traditions from the inspiration of God may help. I am trying to find out which side notes to believe. Ultimately probably the spiritual gift is discerning good from evil is the way to tell.

Your post number 21 is the cause of this discussion.

I can not ask any more questions. I am just curious how you decide who is right and who is wrong. That can include eddif,

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

The ground the root grows in.

Was it originally some granite. Granite weathered and broken down in the undefined long first day. Or did the seperation of land from water erode and release minerals.

The law written in stone releases dust as the letters are carved in stone that gives ground for roots to get nourishment from. Our stony heart has to be broken to allow the seed of the Word to grow.

The sun sends light for photosynthesis to have energy. Nuclear fission and fusion would destroy plants but the softer light gives life.
The sacrifice of Jesus gives us life.

Enough

eddif

 

[D-D-W]

Now using PaRDeS
Does the (and) expand the word for God?

No.

Ok really I am asking: does the Father, Son, Holy Spirit appear with the use of and?

No.

Gentile side notes can wreck scripture or in some rare cases maybe help. Jewish traditions from the inspiration of God may help. I am trying to find out which side notes to believe. Ultimately probably the spiritual gift is discerning good from evil is the way to tell.

Jewish tradition from the Talmuds and various authors can definitely help. And prayer and listening to the voice of the Spirit is vital.

Your post number 21 is the cause of this discussion.

OK. I realize that is a HUGE challenge to anyone not used to that approach of scripture.

 

[Randy]

No takers?

Keep in mind, how one answers this question will have deep implications on their theology, and how they view end-times prophecy.

Not sure what your looking for as it in Christ through whom we live.

“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God has called a people from among the gentiles that will also bare His name.

The only covenant that exists between God and man is the one Jesus introduced by His blood.

The world calls those who practice Judaism Jews. God calls those who are born of God His Children.

And Paul asked and answered these questions. Perhaps those who think they are Jews should do the same even though without the inward cirumcision of the Spirit they are not Jews.
Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I.

I think in the end of days for the sake of His holy name God will turn godlessness away from Jacob and many will come to believe in Jesus through the signs given in Rev 11 while many in the world who take joy in the killing of Gods witnesses will be cut off through the powerful delusion sent into the world through the lies of the beast because they refuse to repent and unbelief.

In the end Jesus will destroy all the nations who attack Israel and Israel will be saved. And the kingdoms of the whole world shall become the kingdom of God and His Christ.

His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Ask me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
You will break them with a rod of iron
you will dash them to pieces like pottery.”

 

[eddif]

God usually gives us the Truth through the scriptures and teachers. There is a lot of symbology used in these scriptures and He surely intends for us to seek out those truths through study and prayer. (otherwise He wouldn't have bothered to leave us the scriptures.) We study hoping to learn the meaning of these symbols.

Finally I feel I can show what I am trying to convey.

Romans 1:18 kjv
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21.Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Verse 20 “ so that they are without excuse:” who is they?

The they IMHO are any who observe creation. Not just those who study scripture. Mark 4 and Matthew 13 tell parables are used so that hearing they hear not and seeing they see not. Creation hides / reveals knowledge enough that man can cry out what is meant by creation. The disciples asked what the parable of the sower meant.

Any man that cries out to know what is going on will hear. IMHO God if necessary will send the information to any man who asks:
A book
A preacher
A missionary
A knowledgeable person
A bible
Other

Whoever seeks shall find: Reader, non reader, Jew, Gentile, bond, free, male, female.

He alerts his messengers by: dream, vision, during prayer, by conviction, or as Jonah by coercion.

James 1:5 kjv
5. If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

All men

Do I believe in scripture study? Absolutely. Should the hints you get from nature agree with scripture? Absolutely.

The disciples asked what the parable of the sower meant. They did not know. Jesus told them. The Holy Spirit is here now. Jesus became a quickening spirit, knocking on the door speaking: through creation, the law, the prophets, finally through his Son.

eddif

 

[Butch5]

Who is the "root" Paul said the Gentiles were being grafted into in Romans 11? The following is just a thread I'm creating without having fully formulated my conclusion yet, though I do believe I know based on the context. But I thought I would posit it as food for thought while mulling it over.

Blessings in Christ to all who respond,
Hidden In Him

Here is the context in Romans:

16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump also; and if the root is holy, so the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. (Romans 11:16-28)

In this context the root is Israel, ultimately Abraham.

 

[eddif]

The root is the part that provides nutrients for the plant. God the Father and Jesus the Son are one. Underneath the ground is the root. I guess it depends on a tree or grape vine the next part.
God the father is the root and since his offspring is Jesus and the quickening spirit Jesus becomes is the morning star.

All of the Godhead provides our nutrients: both for the body, soul, and spirit. The Jewish branch came first (as people and later born of spirit). The gentiles were grafted in later. Both branches should give the nutrient source the praise as long as they abide in Him. Sin removes us from our life supply (Adam and Eve from tree of life - Israel for sins - Gentiles if they become to high minded).

God gets the credit not us. God is our root.

Mississippi redneck
eddif