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Who Manifested Who?

G

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Do you think..

a) the son manifested himself into flesh or
b) god the father manifested the son into flesh

Blessings - Dave
 
I've never thought of "manifest" as something someone does but rather something that happens. Here's an example to illustrate what I mean, I hope. I am born with the ability to get angry but it is not until I actually do get angry that the emotion is manifest.

And God said, "Let there be light." He didn't create light as it always existed but he did allow it to manifest into reality. Well, reality is not the right word but maybe into being? or presence? or essence? or consciousness? or spirit? Am I making sense?
 
@WIP It's a complex thread so, we should tread lightly. Was Jesus always a baby before he was born. Did Jesus manifest himself into a baby, or did God the Father use his omnipotence to manifest his son into a baby. I think in order for something to happen, someone has to do something. In this case, God thought so it appeared. Thinking it, is doing something. It's an interesting topic. :)
 
Maybe we need to come to grips with whether or not Jesus was created in order to answer this question. The way I am reading your use of the word 'manifest' seems to suggest that God manifested or created Jesus or Jesus manifested or created himself. I don't think either of us believes Jesus was created, right? That's where my understanding of 'manifest' might be a little different. I see it as allowing what is already present into presence. That sounds weird but I don't know how else to express it.
 
I use to think that God thought the Messiah into existence but now I'm not so sure.

I use to think that only God can save us, and the Messiah is God, and the Messiah saves us but now I'm not so sure.

I use to think that God and the Messiah were one, somehow melded together but now I'm not so sure.

Now if somehow God and the Messiah are two separate persons that somehow come together to make one God, well, I'm not so sure about that either.

Something tells me we don't really understand the makeup of God.
 
It's a question of accepting the revelation of the Scriptures regarding Who the Lord Jesus is.

John 1.1-2

John 1.14

1 Timothy 3.16

etc.
 
I think my understanding is the same as [MENTION=45432]WIP[/MENTION].

Already in the spiritual realm, manifested in the earthly realm.

In the flesh as a baby who would grow up to a full sized man.
 
Maybe we need to come to grips with whether or not Jesus was created in order to answer this question.

Before Jesus entered into Mary's womb, he was not always a baby so..is it safe to say he was created into a baby? Hard questions.
 
[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:

When John chapter 1 is read publicly, it has sometimes been customary for it to be prefaced by the words:

'John unfolds the mystery of the Incarnation.'

I think the words 'unfolds' and 'mystery' are operative here.

Blessings.
 
Maybe we need to come to grips with whether or not Jesus was created in order to answer this question.

Before Jesus entered into Mary's womb, he was not always a baby so..is it safe to say he was created into a baby? Hard questions.

Not created.

'God of God,
Light of light,
Lo, He abhors not the virgin's womb,
Verily God,
Begotten, not created,
O come, let us adore Him, Christ the Lord!'
 
[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] Ty for scripture. Oh how it is a mystery. Was Jesus always a baby before Mary's womb. What exactly is the structure of Jesus before Mary's womb. Was he a baby, a full grown man, or did he dwell in the spirit realm as "son"? Is there scripture. Blessings.
 
[MENTION=41474]farouk[/MENTION] Ty for scripture. Oh how it is a mystery. Was Jesus always a baby before Mary's womb. What exactly is the structure of Jesus before Mary's womb. Was he a baby, a full grown man, or did he dwell in the spirit realm as "son"? Is there scripture. Blessings.

YW.

God is spirit, and the Lord Jesus 'was in the beginning with God', as John 1 says.

At the Incarnation, He gloriously 'became what He had never been before, while remaining what He always was'.
 
When I look up the word 'manifest' in various dictionaries I get a similar synonym...awareness. This is why I used my analogy of anger to try an explain my line of thinking. The emotion of anger is part of us from birth but may not become manifest until later in life. We make a choice to let ourselves be angry but we don't create the emotion of anger. Jesus (the Word) was with God and was God in the beginning. God said, "Let there be light and there was light." Did He create the light or just let the light, which already existed within, shine or manifest if you will?

This could become a real brain teaser couldn't it?
 
When I look up the word 'manifest' in various dictionaries I get a similar synonym...awareness. This is why I used my analogy of anger to try an explain my line of thinking. The emotion of anger is part of us from birth but may not become manifest until later in life. We make a choice to let ourselves be angry but we don't create the emotion of anger. Jesus (the Word) was with God and was God in the beginning. God said, "Let there be light and there was light." Did He create the light or just let the light, which already existed within, shine or manifest if you will?

This could become a real brain teaser couldn't it?

This is actually a really good post. I'm starting to understand. So it all comes back to his glory, but what about the creation of the universe. Was the universe created or manifested.
 
When I look up the word 'manifest' in various dictionaries I get a similar synonym...awareness. This is why I used my analogy of anger to try an explain my line of thinking. The emotion of anger is part of us from birth but may not become manifest until later in life. We make a choice to let ourselves be angry but we don't create the emotion of anger. Jesus (the Word) was with God and was God in the beginning. God said, "Let there be light and there was light." Did He create the light or just let the light, which already existed within, shine or manifest if you will?

This could become a real brain teaser couldn't it?

This is actually a really good post. I'm starting to understand. So it all comes back to his glory, but what about the creation of the universe. Was the universe created or manifested.

Perhaps this applies?

Genesis 1:
6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.â€
7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appearâ€; and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

Genesis 2:
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown.
 
[MENTION=45432]WIP[/MENTION] Ok, so the universe and we as human beings were created. However, Jesus is the only one or thing that was manifested. Everything else was created. I can live with that. Jesus dwelled in the spirit realm before mary's womb with the name son. He did not have arms and legs until he was manifested into Mary's womb. That leaves the question. Did God the Father manifest his son into flesh using his omnipotence, or did the son manifest himself into flesh.
 
[MENTION=45432]WIP[/MENTION] Ok, so the universe and we as human beings were created. However, Jesus is the only one or thing that was manifested. Everything else was created. I can live with that. Jesus dwelled in the spirit realm before mary's womb with the name son. He did not have arms and legs until he was manifested into Mary's womb. That leaves the question. Did God the Father manifest his son into flesh using his omnipotence, or did the son manifest himself into flesh.

To your question, both.

One Question though, were is the Holy Spirit in this?
 
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