Who was FIRST in the Body of Christ ????

[glorydaz]

Matt 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Hi chesteronrules , The Body of Christ in NOT in the Gospels , and Paul is the ONLY one that mentions it !!!!

The church is the body of Christ.

Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

 

[Bent Radar]

I don't see how the tense of Romans 1:1 has any relevance to Paul being the first "member" of the body of Christ.

I also don't see relevance in the fact that Paul uses the illustration of the body of Christ to refer to the unity of the church. He's just making an analogy to the church(es).

Think about the significance of the Jewish Pentecost celebration and the purpose of the miraculous signs that accompanied it. Christ's kingdom was being ushered in and the old was being done away with.

It is true that Jesus did not send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) until after He ascended. It is by this Spirit that we are placed into the church. That is being born of the Spirit. Jesus promised it to His disciples and is that not what they got in Acts 2? The promise of the Father was then available to all.

 

[chestertonrules]

Matt 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Hi chesteronrules , The Body of Christ in NOT in the Gospels , and Paul is the ONLY one that mentions it !!!!

So you don't think that the Church is the body of Christ?

 

[chestertonrules]

The church is the body of Christ.

You beat me to it!

 

[dan p]

I don't see how the tense of Romans 1:1 has any relevance to Paul being the first "member" of the body of Christ.

I also don't see relevance in the fact that Paul uses the illustration of the body of Christ to refer to the unity of the church. He's just making an analogy to the church(es).

Think about the significance of the Jewish Pentecost celebration and the purpose of the miraculous signs that accompanied it. Christ's kingdom was being ushered in and the old was being done away with.

It is true that Jesus did not send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) until after He ascended. It is by this Spirit that we are placed into the church. That is being born of the Spirit. Jesus promised it to His disciples and is that not what they got in Acts 2? The promise of the Father was then available to all.

Hi Bent Radar , you need to speak to someone who know Greek to explain the Perfect tense and how important the verb tense is . You can refer to " A manuel Grammer of the Greek New Testament by Dana & Mantey , page 179 .

#1 , I see several issues , one is that I do not see the Body of Christ , mentioned in the Gospel ????

#2 , where do you see it FIRST mentioned ????

#3 , Where in the Gospels is the Holy Spirit impart to a believer like 1 Cor 12:13 ???

#4 , And here is what is not seen by those that say that the Body of Christ began in Acts 2 !!!!!

#5 , In 1 Cor 12:13 , PLEASE NOTICE that the Context is JEWS and GENTILES that are made part of the Body of Christ , see that ?????

#6 , And in Acts 2 it is all Jews by Context , Acts 2: 5 -11 ; 1:14 ; 2:22 ; 2:36 and the Day of Pentecost is JEWISH and was predicted by Joel 2:28-32 , so are you Jewish ?????

 

[Bent Radar]

Hi Bent Radar , you need to speak to someone who know Greek to explain the Perfect tense and how important the verb tense is . You can refer to " A manuel Grammer of the Greek New Testament by Dana & Mantey , page 179 .

Yes, I understand that. I don't see how it relates to the claim that Paul is the first one baptized into the body.

#1 , I see several issues , one is that I do not see the Body of Christ , mentioned in the Gospel ????

#2 , where do you see it FIRST mentioned ????

It doesn't matter if the body of Christ was not mentioned until 1987. Paul is just using the "body of Christ" as an analogy of the church.

#3 , Where in the Gospels is the Holy Spirit impart to a believer like 1 Cor 12:13 ???

I believe you are correct here, but how can you miss the Spirit being poured out in Acts 2? These believers were added to the church. They were baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Both John the Baptist and Jesus told them that they would receive it.

#5 , In 1 Cor 12:13 , PLEASE NOTICE that the Context is JEWS and GENTILES that are made part of the Body of Christ , see that ?????

#6 , And in Acts 2 it is all Jews by Context , Acts 2: 5 -11 ; 1:14 ; 2:22 ; 2:36 and the Day of Pentecost is JEWISH and was predicted by Joel 2:28-32 , so are you Jewish ?????

Yes, Acts 2 is for Jews. That's the initial receiving of the Spirit. To the Jews first. Then it was opened up for others (through Peter).

dan p, the believers in Acts 2 received the promise of the Spirit. That is the same thing Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 12.

 

[glorydaz]

[quote="dan p":3ivvv712]
Hi Bent Radar , you need to speak to someone who know Greek to explain the Perfect tense and how important the verb tense is . You can refer to " A manuel Grammer of the Greek New Testament by Dana & Mantey , page 179 .

Yes, I understand that. I don't see how it relates to the claim that Paul is the first one baptized into the body.

#1 , I see several issues , one is that I do not see the Body of Christ , mentioned in the Gospel ????

#2 , where do you see it FIRST mentioned ????

It doesn't matter if the body of Christ was not mentioned until 1987. Paul is just using the "body of Christ" as an analogy of the church.

#3 , Where in the Gospels is the Holy Spirit impart to a believer like 1 Cor 12:13 ???

I believe you are correct here, but how can you miss the Spirit being poured out in Acts 2? These believers were added to the church. They were baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ. Both John the Baptist and Jesus told them that they would receive it.

#5 , In 1 Cor 12:13 , PLEASE NOTICE that the Context is JEWS and GENTILES that are made part of the Body of Christ , see that ?????

#6 , And in Acts 2 it is all Jews by Context , Acts 2: 5 -11 ; 1:14 ; 2:22 ; 2:36 and the Day of Pentecost is JEWISH and was predicted by Joel 2:28-32 , so are you Jewish ?????

Yes, Acts 2 is for Jews. That's the initial receiving of the Spirit. To the Jews first. Then it was opened up for others (through Peter).

dan p, the believers in Acts 2 received the promise of the Spirit. That is the same thing Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 12.[/quote:3ivvv712]
Absolutely correct.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[Sinthesis]

#3 , FIRST , THE USE OF " CHIEF " in verse 15 , is not a good translation.

This is your opinion...

#4 , '" Chief " would imply that Paul was the worst sinner , and indeed he was a bad one , as he had stated in verse 13 and in other places , but this is NOT the emphasis in verses 15-17 , which is a complete paragraph in itself.

Incorrect, the paragraph is composed of verses 12-17.

• 1Ti 1:12 ¶ And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
  1Ti 1:13 - Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.
  1Ti 1:14 - And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
  1Ti 1:15 - This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
  1Ti 1:16 - Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
  1Ti 1:17 - Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, [be] honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

• Verse 12-'Thank you'
  Verse 13-establishes Paul as guilty of specific sins, yet he is shown mercy...
  Verse 14-from God in Jesus...
  Verse 15-who's purpose is to save sinners, including one as sinful as Paul.
  Verse 16-Links verse 15 (Jesus' cause=to save sinners) with verse 12 (sinner Paul=given mercy) thereby providing the best example for the rest of the world of Jesus' saving grace.
  Verse 17-'Amen'

#5 , PROTOS means First!!

We are talking about Strong's G4413 - pr?tos - ??????

#6 , PROTOS means Chief!!!

Sometimes...

#7 , The Greek word translated " chief " is PROTOS meaning " FIRST " and in a secondary sense " chief " when speaking of RANK or DIGNITY , which is not the case HERE.

Provably false...

#8 , PROTOS is the strongest of the 4 Greek words translated " FIRST " in the KJV . It is used 2 times in this passage , once in verse 15 and once in verse 16 for emphasis.

Strong's G4413 - pr?tos - ?????? - is an ADJECTIVE

#9 , What this passage REALLY is teaching is that Paul was the FIRST one to be SAVED in this Dispensation of grace , and the first member of the assembly , the Body of Christ.

False. Because Strong's G4413 is an adjective, it can not be applied to the verb 'SAVE' in verse 15, nor "SHEW' in verse 16. Instead, in verse 15 ?????? modifies 'I' referring back to 'SINNERS' as in 'chief sinner'; while in verse 16 ?????? modifies 'ME' referring forward to 'PATTERN' i.e. 'chief pattern'.

Strong's G4412 - pr?ton - ?????? - is an adverb, and would have had to have been used for your reinterpretation of scripture to be correct.