Who was the sacrificial son of Abraham Isaac or Ishmael?

[truth_will_prevail]

I have a question.

Who was the sacrificial son of Abraham Isaac or Ishmael? In Islam we believe it was Ismael.

 

[fcs25]

Edited for unnecessarily trolling with rude comment.
This is a gift next time a formal warning will be issued.

Solo

 

[truth_will_prevail]

No need for emotional outbursts. And Mr. fcs25 can you prove that Jesus is God? And Also who did the people use to worship before Jesus?

 

[Devekut]

Completely rude. An unfortunate element of the internet is that undeducated, disrespectful people get too many oppertunities to express their opinions.


Truth_will_prevail,

If it is true that you are from the Muslim tradition, you can be sure everyone here will regard Isaac as the son that Abraham was commanded to sacrifice. We respectfully disagree with the Islamic rendering of the tale, which came a millienia or more after the original Jewish telling of the story. Although I can understand why Muhammad would tell the story as the Qu'ran recounts it.

 

[truth_will_prevail]

If it is true that you are from the Muslim tradition, you can be sure everyone here will regard Isaac as the son that Abraham was commanded to sacrifice. We respectfully disagree with the Islamic rendering of the tale, which came a millienia or more after the original Jewish telling of the story. Although I can understand why Muhammad would tell the story as the Qu'ran recounts it.

Ok i have read a bit about this topic. I have one question to start with. Who was the first son of Abraham?

 

[Devekut]

It is true that Ishmael is the first son of Abraham, though biblically speaking he is not the son of promise.

Throughout the Bible we can see a consistent theme, that God actually defies the norms and expectations of human society and grants his favor and spirit to the unlikely and, often, the meek or seemingly worthless. God choosing Isaac over Ishmael is not the first time that he chooses to favor the second born , another astonishing example being Jacob over Esau. God acts distinctly according to his will and He makes a very clear point that communion with him involves an actual reversal of the values and assumptions that we take for granted. In this sense, it is actually important that Isaac is the second born son of Abraham because the inheritence that is his own and the promise that is to be accomplished though him is not accomplished through the norms or customs of society or traditions, but accomplished through God alone. The decision to choose Isaac highlights the transcendence of God over our societal customs and values and his ultimate omnipotence.

In the tribal society it is true that Ishmael, as the first born, was legally entitled to the inheritance of Abraham, but it is also true that Esau should have inherited what instead Jacob recieved. Instead, the Lord gives children to barren mothers in old age and entrusts his promises with those of no social standing, thus securing the power of his message and bringing to light that real worth, status and inheritence is found only through God and nothing else.

 

[truth_will_prevail]

It is true that Ishmael is the first son of Abraham, though biblically speaking he is not the son of promise.

Ok heres a quote from the NIV.

Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." Genesis 22:2

'your only son'

What does it mean by this. How could Isaac be the sacrificial son when he wasn't the first son? For it to be 'your only son' it must be ishmael because he was the first and being the first makes him 'your only son' at this moment in time. You do understand what i'm getting at don't you?

 

[jgredline]

1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest … and offer him there for a burnt offering. Obviously, Isaac was not Abraham’s only son (cf. Ishmael); but Ishmael never enjoyed the status of son, as Isaac did. The Code of Hammurabi (Laws 170–171) shows that a man’s offspring by a slave woman were not ordinarily given the rights that belong to the son born of his wife. Only if in the course of his lifetime the father had said to the male offspring of his slave woman (in public and in an official manner), “Thou art my son,†would the slave woman’s offspring be treated as a real son of the father. If so, then he was counted as an heir; if not, he was given gifts and separated from the household before the inheritance was divided. Isaac remained Abraham’s only son in the legal sense; though he had several other offspring (25:1–4), he had only one son in the unique sense, and he gave him his entire inheritance (25:5–6). Isaac was his unique son; and when the New Testament refers to Isaac (Heb 11:17), it calls him his only begotten (monogenēs). It is clear that the expression “only begotten†refers to status. Thus, when Christ is referred to as “the only begotten†it is a reference to his status as the unique Son of the Father; it does not signify that he had a beginning

(S. Herbert Bess, “The Ter ‘Son of God’ in the Light of Old Testament Idiom,†Grace Journal, Spring 1965).

 

[einstein]

God clearly establishes that His covenant with Abraham is through Sarah's son, Issac. (Gen 17:19) and not through the son of Abraham's servant.

 

[truth_will_prevail]

Sorry for the late reply but i have been a bit busy.

So what happened to Ishmael?

God clearly establishes that His covenant with Abraham is through Sarah's son, Issac. (Gen 17:19) and not through the son of Abraham's servant.

Ok but then how does that make Isaac his only son? This is not logical, it doesn't add up. Ishmael was the first son of Abraham.

 

[Solo]

Sorry for the late reply but i have been a bit busy.

So what happened to Ishmael?



Ok but then how does that make Isaac his only son? This is not logical, it doesn't add up. Ishmael was the first son of Abraham.

Ishmael was the illegitimate son of Abraham through Saras handmaiden who was conceived due to the unbelief of God providing a son in Abraham's and Sara's old age. Isaac is the son of Abraham with promise through which the Messiah would come.

 

[truth_will_prevail]

Ishmael was the illegitimate son of Abraham through Saras handmaiden who was conceived due to the unbelief of God providing a son in Abraham's and Sara's old age. Isaac is the son of Abraham with promise through which the Messiah would come.

What are you trying to say by 'illegitimate son?" Do you actually know what you are implying?

I seek refuge in god

 

[Arjy]

Does that mean out of wedlock maybe?

 

[Solo]

What are you trying to say by 'illegitimate son?" Do you actually know what you are implying?

I seek refuge in god

Almighty God was not involved in the birth of Ishmael. Ishmael was born of Sara's sinful decision to provide Abraham a son because she had unbelief that God could provide a son at her late age. Ishmael was illegitimate because his mother was not Abraham's wife. Abraham wife was Sara, and Abraham and Sara's son was Isaac.

 

[jgredline]

Almighty God was not involved in the birth of Ishmael. Ishmael was born of Sara's sinful decision to provide Abraham a son because she had unbelief that God could provide a son at her late age. Ishmael was illegitimate because his mother was not Abraham's wife. Abraham wife was Sara, and Abraham and Sara's son was Isaac.

Good answer Michael..I was going to respond, but could quite come up with the right words....Praise God that I did not, because your answer again was short, to the point and spot on..

 

[truth_will_prevail]

Almighty God was not involved in the birth of Ishmael. Ishmael was born of Sara's sinful decision to provide Abraham a son because she had unbelief that God could provide a son at her late age. Ishmael was illegitimate because his mother was not Abraham's wife. Abraham wife was Sara, and Abraham and Sara's son was Isaac.

This still doesn't make him not his son. What your saying makes Abraham also in the wrong, but as we know he was Prophet. Prophets are not sinful. They do not fall into the traps of the devils.

What do you say to this:

His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field Abraham had bought from the Hittites. [a] There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah. (Genesis 25:9-10)

So now Isaac and Ishmael are both his sons?

 

[Devekut]

Of course Ishmael is Isaac's son and God clearly cares for Ishmael as a tribute to Abraham's faith and in line with what Abraham would desire (and of course, in the nature of God's good mercy).

However, Ishmael is not the legitimate son of Abraham and therefore has no real social acknowledgment. His presence was somewhat of an embarassment. Abraham has him sent away, thus leaving Abraham with one son in the eyes of his servants and neighbours.

 

[Solo]

This still doesn't make him not his son. What your saying makes Abraham also in the wrong, but as we know he was Prophet. Prophets are not sinful. They do not fall into the traps of the devils.

What do you say to this:

His sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah near Mamre, in the field of Ephron son of Zohar the Hittite, 10 the field Abraham had bought from the Hittites. [a] There Abraham was buried with his wife Sarah. (Genesis 25:9-10)

So now Isaac and Ishmael are both his sons?

I say the following Scripture is true:

10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 16:10-12

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Genesis 21:12

5 And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac. 6 But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country. Genesis 25:5-6

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; F10 the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Galatians 4:22-31

 

[Rick W]

10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 16:10-12

Knew there was something like that concerning Ishmael and wanted to find it but every time I got home I'd forget about it. Needed it for another fellow at work who asked about it a while back.

Thanks Solo! :smt023

 

[Gary]

God gave His only Son for you.....

So lets think it through......

1) Why did God ask for this sacrifice from Abraham? Was it a test of Abraham's love for God?

If it was an expression of how much Abraham loved God i.e. he was willing to sacrifice his son to show that love, then the second question is:

2) How would God show His love for mankind?