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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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truth_will_prevail said:
Then please explain why most of the bible contains the description of the lives of the descendants of Isaac rather than Ishmael if Ishmael was the chosen one of God. :o His life is consipcuously unimportant for being the chosen one. So why is that, do you think? :o In fact, there is so little about Ishmael in the bible that one of the only comments made about him is that he and his descendants would always live in hostility with their neighbors, which, one can see on the news every single day. :wink:
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kal8
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I think that is is impossible to know which was which. Pick a side and stick to it.
kal8 said:
Sorry that's incorrect. If Ishmael was the chosen one of God, then to show who God is (which is what the bible is all about), the bible would have described Ishmael's descendants and not Isaac's. But Ishmael is hardly mentioned at all, except to say that he was born illegitimately of a slave woman and will live in hosility with all is neighbors, which his descendants prove true, even to this day.So the only side to pick is the side of the bible which always proves itself true. ;-)
Biblereader
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The sacrificial son of Abraham was Isaac. Just like the Bible says.
A ram in a thicket was provided, as a substitute, so Abraham did not have to
kill his only son, even though he would have, because Abraham's faith was so great.
The passages pointed to the Saviour, Jesus Christ, the only Son of the Living God, praise
be His Name, Hallelujah, glory to Jesus Christ, forever and ever, amen.
A ram in a thicket was provided, as a substitute, so Abraham did not have to
kill his only son, even though he would have, because Abraham's faith was so great.
The passages pointed to the Saviour, Jesus Christ, the only Son of the Living God, praise
be His Name, Hallelujah, glory to Jesus Christ, forever and ever, amen.
Biblereader
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Heidi said:
Heidi says the truth, and, I will add, the Bible, the KJV, is the one trustworthy preserved Holy Word of God Almighty. Worship Him forever and ever. Worship the Lamb, His Son, Jesus Christ, the Alpha and Omega. Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Read Romans 10:9-12
turnorburn
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There is only one sacrifice that matters, that of "Gods Only Begotten Son"
Biblereader
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Amen.
Biblereader
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Here, truth_will:
Some scriptures from the Truth, the Book of Holy Scriptures, the Bible:
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Some scriptures from the Truth, the Book of Holy Scriptures, the Bible:
22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
turnorburn
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Biblereader
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:-D :-D :-D
God shined a light on me, while I was reading my Holy Bible this morning,
and so, I posted this passage.
God shined a light on me, while I was reading my Holy Bible this morning,
and so, I posted this passage.
turnorburn
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Biblereader said:
Biblereader
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Why the question mark?
turnorburn
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Because I didn't read it proper, sorry, here God blesses you and I stick that in there. Doh!
:Biblereader
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TUESDAY DECEMBER 4, 2007 12:01 AM (PT) Imagine heading a group that was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal terror case. What would you do? Maybe you'd clean house. You'd find out who was in your organization and should a terror connection exist, you'd remove them and publicly denounce them. That's not what this group has done. Their first line of defense? Lobby congress to be removed. Nevermind they're a non-profit with directors including a convicted terrorist, and many with ties to know terror groups. And they might be successful! Details tonight at 10 ET / 7 PT.
CAIR called 'turnstile' for terrorist suspects
CAIR, which receives financial backing from Saudi and Emirati royalty, denies charges that it has a secret agenda to Islamize America. But a Muslim Brotherhood document declassified in the Holy Land case reveals that CAIR's parent was among Muslim organizations enlisted in a secret plot to destroy the American system from within and eventually take over the country.
CAIR called 'turnstile' for terrorist suspects
CAIR, which receives financial backing from Saudi and Emirati royalty, denies charges that it has a secret agenda to Islamize America. But a Muslim Brotherhood document declassified in the Holy Land case reveals that CAIR's parent was among Muslim organizations enlisted in a secret plot to destroy the American system from within and eventually take over the country.
G
Gary
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Isaac or Ishmael? Islam not sure!!
Abraham and the Child of Sacrifice - Isaac or Ishmael?
Muslims feel that Ishmael was the one offered up by Abraham. They believe that the Holy Bible supports this by its declaration that Abraham offered his only son. Ishmael was Abraham's only son for over 13 years, which would make it impossible for Isaac to be the chld of sacrifice. (Cf. Genesis 16:16, 21:5).
Muslims believe that scribes later corrupted the original reading from Ishmael to Isaac.
Since this idea stems from the Muslim misunderstanding of the phrase "only son", it becomes necessary to explain what this phrase exactly means in relation to Isaac. A careful reading of the Holy Bible shows that the phrase is used to affirm Isaac's unique status, a status based on the following:
Even more amazing is the fact that the Quran never mentions the name of the sacrificial child; amazing indeed considering how overzealous some Muslims have been in their attempts to prove that Ishmael, not Isaac, was that son.....
Muhammad H. Haykal, in his classic biography The Life of Muhammad, wrote:
read more: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/sacrifice.htm
Abraham and the Child of Sacrifice - Isaac or Ishmael?
Muslims feel that Ishmael was the one offered up by Abraham. They believe that the Holy Bible supports this by its declaration that Abraham offered his only son. Ishmael was Abraham's only son for over 13 years, which would make it impossible for Isaac to be the chld of sacrifice. (Cf. Genesis 16:16, 21:5).
Muslims believe that scribes later corrupted the original reading from Ishmael to Isaac.
Since this idea stems from the Muslim misunderstanding of the phrase "only son", it becomes necessary to explain what this phrase exactly means in relation to Isaac. A careful reading of the Holy Bible shows that the phrase is used to affirm Isaac's unique status, a status based on the following:
- Isaac was the only promised child of Abraham, a fact which the Quran agrees with (cf. Genesis 17:15-21; Surah 11:69-73, 37:112-113, 51:24-30). Ishmael was never a promised child.
Isaac was conceived miraculously to a barren mother and a very aged father, with the Quran likewise agreeing (cf. Genesis 17:15-17, 18:9-15, 21:1-7; Galatians 4:28-29; Surah 11:69-73, 51:24-30). Ishmael was conceived normally without the need of any miraculous intervention.
God promised that it would be Isaac's descendants who would inherit the land given to Abraham. (Genesis 13:14-18, 15:18-21, 28:13-14). Ishmael had no part in the inheritance and promise given to Isaac through Abraham.
Even more amazing is the fact that the Quran never mentions the name of the sacrificial child; amazing indeed considering how overzealous some Muslims have been in their attempts to prove that Ishmael, not Isaac, was that son.....
Muhammad H. Haykal, in his classic biography The Life of Muhammad, wrote:
- The Qur'an did not mention the name of the sacrificial son, and hence Muslim historians disagree in this regard.
read more: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/sacrifice.htm
I
Imagican
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Perhaps this is why this argument persists:
Gen 16
[11] And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
[12] And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
MEC
Gen 16
[11] And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
[12] And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
MEC
turnorburn
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Isaac Isaac Isaac That was a huge flub up by Abraham, "No patience" look at what one man can do,
take Adam as an example
take Adam as an example
Re:
Hey Truth. First of all Prophets are men and can sin and do the wrong thing. I never thought of Abraham as a prophet anyway.
You asked what happened to Ishmael. As the story goes he was sent away by Abraham with his mother. So he was not around at the time of the sacrifice. So Isaac was his only son via Sarah and the only son around at the time.
I also know no matter how many people say it you are going to go by your beliefs. The only one who can sway your heart is God. Nothing I say or write will suddenly make you abandon what you have been taught unless the Holy Spirit convicts you.
truth_will_prevail said:
Hey Truth. First of all Prophets are men and can sin and do the wrong thing. I never thought of Abraham as a prophet anyway.
You asked what happened to Ishmael. As the story goes he was sent away by Abraham with his mother. So he was not around at the time of the sacrifice. So Isaac was his only son via Sarah and the only son around at the time.
I also know no matter how many people say it you are going to go by your beliefs. The only one who can sway your heart is God. Nothing I say or write will suddenly make you abandon what you have been taught unless the Holy Spirit convicts you.
G
Gabe
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Another example of Muslims picking & choosing random verses from our Holy scripture, taking them out of context & quoting them as their truth when it suits their false beliefs. & what about the rest of our scripture that clearly goes against Islamic beliefs? Oh that's easy to explain away...our scriptures corrupted & distorted, if its so corrupted then why bother quoting from a corrupted source? Oh I remember, that's where Mo got his idea's from in the first place.