Bible Study Who/What is Death?

[Kathi]

without really looking at the bible on this, the grim reaper

I do not believe in a 'grim reaper".I think it would be best to refer to the Bible on this.

 

[jasonc]

I do not believe in a 'grim reaper".I think it would be best to refer to the Bible on this.

I did say that without looking at the bible

 

[Edward]

What would you describe the persona of death be?

Well, he does get thrown into the lake of fire...so there's that.

So he must be a bad guy.

 

[Chopper]

Its posts everyone, like Chopper's replies that God gives life and takes it again...

Remember when Lucifer and his angels sinned they were kicked out of heaven...

Re 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

But nobody had died yet....

God told Adam the day you eat of this wrong tree you will dying die...the Hebrew word muwth is repeated twice....

The first muwth is called in Scripture a sleep....

The second muwth, is known in Scripture as Sheol, a place of nonexistence....

Notice God demonstrates Himself what Sheol is when Adam and Eve first sinned...

He took animals and clothed them, this might assume they were killed for the very first time....Satan must have been amazed that creatures could die....

Ge 3:21 ¶ Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

So death is when GOD removes his life force from his creation....it's like Him switching off his power on that creation of His...

Notice a living being is dust + breath of God's life force
and a dead being is dust - the life force of God

We learn from scripture this life force is administrated by "ruwach" the wind of the Holy Spirit....

So think of death as a switching off of God's life force within you....

The wicked who experience the second death have the switching off of God's power for eternity, so for them they cease to exist, and so the second death or shoal is really a condition of non-existence.

Hope that helps
Shalom

Hi Rob, listen, I have a huge amount of respect for you and your website. I have always paid a lot of attention to what you have to say. Therefore, the question about the lost who suffer the second death has been a situation that I'm still in doubt as to what to believe. You say that the wicked "cease to exist", instead of being tormented "forever". Is that correct? I can't seem to come to a conclusion on the fate of the wicked that are cast into the lake of fire. Are they tormented for a while and then don't exist anymore of do they continue to be tormented on and on and on etc.

 

[jasonc]

Well, he does get thrown into the lake of fire...so there's that.

So he must be a bad guy.

I think you are over literalizing the personifications. does wisdom have a body and soul? no it doesn't. death as something part of the curse can be placed into that and its shown to be as all evil things or the curse itself being done away with and not tormented. sheol does have the idea of being alive and also have a will.

 

[rthom7]

Hi Rob, listen, I have a huge amount of respect for you and your website. I have always paid a lot of attention to what you have to say. Therefore, the question about the lost who suffer the second death has been a situation that I'm still in doubt as to what to believe. You say that the wicked "cease to exist", instead of being tormented "forever". Is that correct? I can't seem to come to a conclusion on the fate of the wicked that are cast into the lake of fire. Are they tormented for a while and then don't exist anymore of do they continue to be tormented on and on and on etc.

I appreciate your concern Chopper, and I will be more considerate of other theories of faith on this issue...
Here is more on my own theory of faith...

I always base Scripture on typologies, so a future typology should be shown in part by a previous typology. That's how we can judge prophecy or future events, otherwise we are making speculation of the meaning of the verses, as we read them. And nothing to base our interpretation of them on.

So what's the old typology I base the lake of fire experience on ?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom experienced an eternal fire... is it still burning today ? No, so the fire consumes, but the punishment is eternal. Not the punishing. Also I notice the tormenting was brimstone, and it rained down....brimstone is a flow of fire...intense heat with suffocating sulphur dioxide fumes...the people of Sodom were not tormented much during the ordeal, they would have died in seconds standing upon their feet, as the flow of fire turned the stone building into powdered ash. How much mercy God shows even for the wicked...

See Ron Wyatt pictures of Sodom remains to this day, including brimstone finds by the thousand.

Anyway that's the only old typology Scripture has.... in which to interpret the Scripture in Revelation.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice some key words fire and brimstone take us back to the older typology of Sodom.

Hope that helps
Shalom

 

[Chopper]

I appreciate your concern Chopper, and I will be more considerate of other theories of faith on this issue...
Here is more on my own theory of faith...

I always base Scripture on typologies, so a future typology should be shown in part by a previous typology. That's how we can judge prophecy or future events, otherwise we are making speculation of the meaning of the verses, as we read them. And nothing to base our interpretation of them on.

So what's the old typology I base the lake of fire experience on ?

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Sodom experienced an eternal fire... is it still burning today ? No, so the fire consumes, but the punishment is eternal. Not the punishing. Also I notice the tormenting was brimstone, and it rained down....brimstone is a flow of fire...intense heat with suffocating sulphur dioxide fumes...the people of Sodom were not tormented much during the ordeal, they would have died in seconds standing upon their feet, as the flow of fire turned the stone building into powdered ash. How much mercy God shows even for the wicked...

See Ron Wyatt pictures of Sodom remains to this day, including brimstone finds by the thousand.

Anyway that's the only old typology Scripture has.... in which to interpret the Scripture in Revelation.

Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice some key words fire and brimstone take us back to the older typology of Sodom.

Hope that helps
Shalom

Yes it helps. I needed to know what your position was and you explained it of which I give you thanks. Peace be to you as well.

 

[Edward]

I think you are over literalizing the personifications. does wisdom have a body and soul? no it doesn't. death as something part of the curse can be placed into that and its shown to be as all evil things or the curse itself being done away with and not tormented. sheol does have the idea of being alive and also have a will.

No, I don't know if Wisdom has a body and a soul (neither do you!). All we really know for sure, is that Wisdom was referenced in scripture as being female...and speaking.

So all I'm saying is, it sounds like Wisdom (and death) may be actual personalities. In Pilgrims Progress, Christian meets all sorts of characters also, like Charity, Discretion, Prudence, and a guy named knowledge, but I don't remember an actual Wisdom in PP. For as little as we know about the kingdom's realm, maybe these are actual beings? I don't know.

I read a cool book one time (the author escapes me at this moment, lol) called "On a Pale Horse" wherein Death was a being which came to collect the souls of the fence sitters. One guy who is contemplating suicide with a 45 in his hand...and Death walks through the door...he turns the gun on Death, and kills Death...but then has to assume Death's job duties. It was a good book.

It does make one wonder if they are actual beings, being referenced in scripture the way they are.

 

[Kathi]

To a Christian death is a good thing.You are going home.

 

[jasonc]

No, I don't know if Wisdom has a body and a soul (neither do you!). All we really know for sure, is that Wisdom was referenced in scripture as being female...and speaking.

So all I'm saying is, it sounds like Wisdom (and death) may be actual personalities. In Pilgrims Progress, Christian meets all sorts of characters also, like Charity, Discretion, Prudence, and a guy named knowledge, but I don't remember an actual Wisdom in PP. For as little as we know about the kingdom's realm, maybe these are actual beings? I don't know.

I read a cool book one time (the author escapes me at this moment, lol) called "On a Pale Horse" wherein Death was a being which came to collect the souls of the fence sitters. One guy who is contemplating suicide with a 45 in his hand...and Death walks through the door...he turns the gun on Death, and kills Death...but then has to assume Death's job duties. It was a good book.

It does make one wonder if they are actual beings, being referenced in scripture the way they are.

I don't think even the Jews say that.

 

[iLOVE]

I will not cause pain without allowing something new to be born says the Lord. Isaiah 66:9 New Century Version (NCV)

 

[TimothyW]

To a Christian death is a good thing.You are going home.

in a box.

 

[Chopper]

 

[rthom7]

Yes it helps. I needed to know what your position was and you explained it of which I give you thanks. Peace be to you as well.

Your very welcome, I realize there are many differences in Bible theories of faith between us, and in a way this does not matter, my website concentrates only on how to have a Bible based relationship with Jesus....

The Holy Spirit brings us into a community of love and fellowship, despite our differences, and sometimes we have to be patient with our brethren...love is a more important character trait to achieve than knowledge...

Shalom