Whole Word or Hole Word

[Gendou Ikari]

You know where you are at, at present. (not any of us) But I will say this, if anyone can be saved, the Lord will leave NO stone unturned to do so. He never forces, it must be our decision. But it matters little what that takes to get the job done, as long as the person has had every opportunity! See Jude 1:22 & 23 + Isaiah 5:4

Even the Jude verse might be misunderstood at present? The FEAR Word? But your original question asked how one could know Truth for sure? (bottomline) And here we see that God does not care why one surrenders, as long as they do. And it is then that the FEAR is a past/tense elment! LOVE IS 'THEN' RECREATED! And some are saved one way & others are saved in other methods!

I could post up a couple old posts about how God worked with me, but I won't unless asked to do so. Besides, they most likely would not fit the 'mods' policy of the thread.

--Elijah

So in summation, you believe the Holy Ghost has told you that the 66 books of the Protestant Bible are Holy Writ, and that there are saved Christians who might not believe this, but they are wrong?

 

[Elijah674]

So in summation, you believe the Holy Ghost has told you that the 66 books of the Protestant Bible are Holy Writ, and that there are saved Christians who might not believe this, but they are wrong?

We are saved upon only total surrender. Rom. 2:14-15 has God FOUND in His Nature even by some. Take note that the Holy Ghost WAS IN THEIR HEART. It was not that they did not believe this as we might, but that they lived & believed all that they had been given up to that time. There comes Hosea 4:6 + Dan. 12:4. Ask yourself when you read Rev. 17:1-5 if you think that these could all be possibly LED of the Holy Spirit? (not that they were not so at one time) Then see Gen. 6:3 STRIVING for 120 years. And the fault was not the K.J. Bible, huh? Also note David in Psalms 19:13's word of Great Transgression & Presumption.

And my positives? Yes, my Bible (K.J.) looks like a Christmas tree with all of my highlights & marginal cross referances. And Yes, I can speak only for myself before I surrendered to Christ & what has taken place after that. Let me say it this way... NEVER HAS THERE BEEN A DAY THAT I FIND MYSELF NOT KNOWING THAT I AM BEING LED! There is NO Christian at the start (Rom. 8:1 Acts 5:32 Rom. 8:14) that does not KNOW it when they sin. They ARE LED to correct it (mature forward) [[IF THEY WILL]]. But this has got to be the starting point of True Belief, that of Being Born Again. John 3:3

Over the years, one the bigest problems that I find in reaching people, is that they do not know how to study the Bible. Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16. And who wants to do that??? The WHOLE BOOK??!! Unless they are Born Again with a True Love for its author?

And yes, surely, many folks think that God is only dependant upon them, huh?

--Elijah

 

[Glowstique]

Ok, I beleive that the Bible was inspired by God. Can i then pretend that the opinions and beliefs of the writers did not influence its words in any way??? To make that assumption would go against logic. Take the way women were treated in the old testament. They were treated like property. However, Jesus came and said we should love and take care of our wives. Obviously, there is a difference in opinions here, and of course Jesus is God, so it is his 'opinion' that is correct. Christianity requires much more than just faith in God, it requires faith in fellow man.

 

[Elijah674]

Ok, I beleive that the Bible was inspired by God. Can i then pretend that the opinions and beliefs of the writers did not influence its words in any way??? To make that assumption would go against logic. Take the way women were treated in the old testament. They were treated like property. However, Jesus came and said we should love and take care of our wives. Obviously, there is a difference in opinions here, and of course Jesus is God, so it is his 'opinion' that is correct. Christianity requires much more than just faith in God, it requires faith in fellow man.

Are you talking of Inspiration or what we are told by Inspiration that Gods creation did, & was allowed 'free will' to do? Such as asking God not to talk in person any more to them at Mt Sinia, & in having a King to rule over them?

But yes, it is my belief that ones personality did shape their Inspired words discribing the Inspiration. That is one reason it is so crucial for understanding doctrine, we must have all of the TESTIMONY to fit the doctrinal picture together! (Matt. 4:4 & 2 Tim. 3:16) Also, God requires man to be involved as 'i' see it, with different personalities! The sin problem was with mankind. That is why we see Christ/man as the second Adam. (at least one main reason)

Is that what was being asked? And 'faith in fellow man' you say?? Are you talking of MATURE CHRISTIAN MAN, and one in the same Eph. 4:5 Church Fold? I am not sold on haveing 'FAITH' in man. At least not the kind that comes from only believe stuff?? Jer. 17:5

If you are meaning respect, & even honor, then that is quite different as I see it. Exod. 20:12 You can read 1 Tim. 5:17 of 'double honor' yet verse 19-21 ibide. finds that the meaning cannot be 'bottched'! Even to the.. 'without preferring one before another, doing [nothing] by partiality.'

--Elijah

 

[Glowstique]

Not what I meant. We have to have a lot of TRUST in man that the words written down were what God wanted.

Christians are people. People make mistakes, and christians are no exception. Do you really believe that in all the time it took, and with all the writers who wrote the Bible, that no ones unjustified 2 cents slipped in?

 

[Alabaster]

Christians are people. People make mistakes, and christians are no exception. Do you really believe that in all the time it took, and with all the writers who wrote the Bible, that no ones unjustified 2 cents slipped in?

I believe it completely. God is all-powerful and has only allowed that which He wants us to see and know.

 

[Sparkey]

Communication involves active listening. The Holy Spirit is the moving force for all Scripture. Paul uses an analogy that likens the process to the current and a boat, saying that he had no involvement (no more than a sailboat that harnesses the wind). We are told that all scripture is inspired and the word literally means God-Breathed. It is the only use of that particular word in the entire bible. We are also commanded to study to show ourselves approved, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. We need the Holy Spirit to be the moving force for our hearing also.

Even the title, "Word of Truth" conveys and carries meaning. Consider the argument that James puts for about a spring of water. Can this contain "a little poison" and still be fresh? Perhaps the spring is comparing "bitter" and "fresh" water but he was admonishing men, not God while instructing them to bridle their tongues. If it is not acceptable then for men to taint the truth in their speech, how much more would it be reprehensible for God to allow His Breath to be corrupted??? Can the Holy Spirit be holy and utterly apart from sin if we are left without light, blind and unable to be guided by God?

Surely, the Lord does allow "man's two-cents" to enter. I remember Moses making comments about the nature of the people that he was given responsibility over. We can see Paul asking for somebody to remember to send him his coat in certain passages. God did not expressly dictate each word but it was by His Holy Spirit that each word was given. When we listen and inquire of the Lord about HIS meaning, it is by the Holy Spirit that we are empowered to hear rightly. This is the guarantee: that we are able to be saved by the engrafted word. Is our salvation, (provided by God) ---> is the Logos of God corruptible? Saying that the bible contains errors is, in my opinion, tantamount to saying "Jesus is not God."

Some may come and say that I'm misrepresenting them and that they are merely saying that certain concepts were in error. They may stress that their belief is not as I say at all. If we look at a statement (like the famous, "Women can't speak in church" quote) and believe that Paul was speaking about women then conclude that he had a cultural bias, we may think that the bible was at least written partly "in error"? We can think, but can we understand? The Holy Spirit moved Paul to address a few specific situations in a specific body of believers, one that was under Paul's authority. The specific statement can be understood within the general context: Things need to be done in an orderly fashion; God is not the author of confusion.

If there were multiple things going on in that body of believers that contributed to the general din and were not conducive to worship then we can take them together and form our understanding from that. Does the mistake come from the author or does it belong to the listener who insists on forming doctrine? If we are to form doctrine, can we not say, "Don't be disruptive in church," and/or "Be considerate of others," or must we be literal-minded and insist that the controversy is maintained forever? Is there really a doctrine about speaking in church like that? What did Paul say about speaking in tongues, should it be prohibited? Because he did not specifically say, "Do not prohibit the speech of women," does that necessarily mean the opposite? No.

The Scripture, "There is now no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile," is fairly well accepted and understood in modern society and churches of today. Sure, there are still those who identify culturally with their roots and nobody wants to take that away. But regarding salvation there is no difference. Consider though, the scripture about Jews and Gentiles doesn't stop there but goes on to say that there is no longer any difference between male and female. There are still biological difference, just take a look around, but there is no difference in reality, just as there is no difference between Jew and Gentile. Let me admonish one and all (together with the author of the Bible) to study with the purpose of being able to show yourself approved.

Let us form our doctrine on a priority basis, shall we? First, God is not a liar. The rest follows.

Cordially,
~Sparrow

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Jesus told us that if we didn't share the Word of God with others, he would have the rocks cry out.
It makes sense that if the Bible as we have it was not the Word of God, he would have the rocks cry out.

 

[Pizzaguy]

Jesus told us that if we didn't share the Word of God with others, he would have the rocks cry out.
It makes sense that if the Bible as we have it was not the Word of God, he would have the rocks cry out.

Now THAT is an interesting point.