Why Adam and Eve sinned before eating the fruit.

[stovebolts]

Yes, one could say that....

Not wanting to get into the politics, but let me use this comparison:

Remember the whole "Bush lied" thing? The premise was that when W. told us that there were WMD's in Iraq, he lied.

Now, there are two possibilities of what is actually truth here:

A: Bush lied. Bush knew darn well there were no WMD's but wanted to go to war so he lied.

B: Bush was misled. The intelligence officers, whose job it is to give accurate and complete information to the president, didn't give accurate or complete information. But, Bush, trusting his IO's to be doing their job the way they were supposed to, believed them, because they are supposed to be telling the truth.

If A is true, then Bush is guilty of lying.

If B is true, then Bush is not guilty of lying.

Now, the serpent told Eve some things...and we know that she believed him, because the Scriptures tell us that she did so. There is no sin in believing someone is telling you the truth, if you do not know that they are lying. We know that the serpent was lying...and we know that Adam didn't believe him, but chose to disobey God. But, we know that Eve was deceived. She did not sin in her belief of the lie, but was led into transgression because of it.

Handy,
That's a great analogy with Bush, and please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't see that analogy working in this case simply because it doesn't factor in God telling Bush that there weren't any WMD, nor does it show a selfish motive for Bush.

In the case of Eve, it is clear that she understood what she was not to do. In the case of Bush, he was seeking the best approach and thus sought after council. In the case of the woman (pre-Eve), the catalyst was her desire for wisdom as to be on the same level as God, with Bush he was looking for peace.

More so, if a person lies, but does not know they are lying, they may not be a liar in their heart, but they still speak a lie. God addresses this in the sacrificial system and is found within the sin offering. Bush may have told a lie, but it was based on not knowing the truth and making his decision on the best information available. In short, he trusted his council. In the case of the woman, who would be called Eve, Mother of all living, it was also about trust. Does she trust what God says, or does she trust what she wants to hear through her own lustful desire for wisdom?

If I could, let me ask you a couple questions so at the very least you can see how I see this whole thing.

1. Why did God provision a sin offering for sins committed unknowingly?
2. In Mt. 19:6 it says, Therefore they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder.
Reflecting back to the words of Adam, "The woman you gave me". Does Adam refer to his wife as bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh? Do you see any significance here?
3. Did Levi pay tithes to Melchisedic and if so, how?
4. What is meant by Sin came through Adam?

And just to add food for thought, when Job lost his entire estate and his entire family, why was his wife spared?

I value your input and your insight. I am not trying to be mean or argumentative so I hope you don't take my words as such. I am simply being honest in how I view this portion of scripture and I respect your honestly in how you view the same portion.

 

[handy]

Jeff, I just got home and am checking over messages and such and so I've not really had time to delve into your post yet.

(For the first time ever, I was unable to get me and the kids home last night due to a killer snowstorm. It took me about 25 minutes just to drive about 7 miles, so we stayed in town last night.)

However, I do want to address this part for now...

In the case of Eve, it is clear that she understood what she was not to do.

I'm not so sure that Eve did understand what she wasn't to do. Eve's answer to the serpent was, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'"

I keep going back to the fact that God did not say that they were not to touch the fruit. God gave the commandment to Adam. It is inferred/assumed that Adam gave the commandment to Eve, but even if God gave the commandment to Eve, it is still clear that she is adding to what the commandment actually was. Most scholars infer that Adam taught Eve the commandment, as fitting to the head of the household, which is the way I lean as well. But, either Adam added to the commandment or Eve did, and when we are adding things to God's commandments, they get murky. Understanding isn't as clear.

Part of the deception of Eve is that she took of the fruit and did not die. If she had been taught, or at least understood that even touching the fruit would cause death, when she plucked it from the tree and nothing happened...that can truly confuse an issue now couldn't it.

While I study your post a bit further, will you give me your thoughts on the fact that Bible never says that Eve sinned (parabasis is usually translated as "transgression" and 1 Timothy 2 states that Eve was led into transgression due to deception), but yet condemns Adam for bringing sin (hamartano is translated as sin) and death into the world.


Asyncritus, Hi there :waving and welcome to the forum and to this discussion. I haven't had time to really delve into your study yet either, but when I do get the time I will most certainly read through it!


I do realize that "ignorance is no excuse for violating a law". Believe me, I once had to pay well over $100 dollars because we forgot to put the current tags on my car when they came in the mail. I honestly thought Steve did it, he thought I did, and the the representative of Idaho's finest didn't let us off just because of our "honest mistake". Eve most certainly shared in the consequences. She died. But, it was not through her that sin and death entered into this world. Romans makes this very, very clear, does it not?