Why Christians Fail to Receive Healing

[lesjude]

So thats a no to having read my post?

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I have read and answered all your posts. You have not answered my questions.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Les, are you Word of Faith?

 

[Grazer]

I have read and answered all your posts. You have not answered my questions.

I was referring to the one about medicine possibly being gods modern miracle

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[Gordon]

Lesjude I appreciate you sharing your faith about healing. You have given me something to think about. I was into the occult before I became ill and a lot of what you say I believe. I just have a hard time with how simple you make this. Like everyone who died of illness didn't have enough faith? Anything besides divine healing is evil? I am going to read over your threads and continue to pray about them.

 

[Deborah13]

I would like to see this discussion moved to the Apologetics/Theology forum where we can debate what the scripture says.
I do not feel like we can address the subject in detail in this General forum.

How about it Les???

 

[Pizzaguy]

No, I have questioned no ones faith. I simply posted reasons why Christians do not receive healing. Y'all did the rest.
All that is needed for any healing a Christian needs is a "mustard seed" of faith. EVERYONE gets at least that much. The issue becomes if they decide to use it or not because God will NEVER allow a trial which is too much for their faith.

Fine, then how do we "use it" properly?

I ask, since OBVIOUSLY millions of Christians the world over are ignorant of your great wisdom.

What should my sister do to be healed of M.S.? She has prayed, her church has prayed, I have prayed. She has fasted. She has called the elders of her church to her bedside and THEY prayed and anointed her with oil.

And yet, she continues to slide towards a horrible end-of-life and death itself. Oddly, her faith remains strong thru all of this.

Where is she going wrong?

 

[lesjude]

Les, are you Word of Faith?

No, I am not now nor have I ever been WOF. Most of them are in heresy on the atonement of Christ.

 

[reba]

I would like to see this discussion moved to the Apologetics/Theology forum where we can debate what the scripture says.
I do not feel like we can address the subject in detail in this General forum.

How about it Les???

done

 

[lesjude]

Thank you.

 

[Deborah13]

Thanks lesjude and Reba.

 

[lesjude]

Fine, then how do we "use it" properly?

I ask, since OBVIOUSLY millions of Christians the world over are ignorant of your great wisdom.

What should my sister do to be healed of M.S.? She has prayed, her church has prayed, I have prayed. She has fasted. She has called the elders of her church to her bedside and THEY prayed and anointed her with oil.


And yet, she continues to slide towards a horrible end-of-life and death itself. Oddly, her faith remains strong thru all of this.

Where is she going wrong?

We have the same battle with a family member. We are winning. Have you cast out any spirits of infirmity/MS because often that is necessary. Are you doing spiritual warfare on her behalf? Is she in the word constantly? What does she say about her condition? Does she believe 1 John 5:14-15? Does she understand Mark 11:24? Does she believe 2 Corinthians 2:20? Does she and people around her have the Acts 2:4 experience so Jude 20 is possible for her to do?
Is she trusting Jesus alone? If the elders believe the medical system is an alternative the prayer of faith required is not possible. Was James 5:14-15 her first and only choice for healing?
Here is a brief teaching on faith for healing. http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49107&highlight=

 

[lesjude]

I was referring to the one about medicine possibly being gods modern miracle

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I answered and said medicine is not modern nor a miracle.

 

[Deborah13]

The Bible clearly gives the reasons and that healing is promised.

Demon possession/oppression can be a cause of sickness. Jesus cast out many demons and the result was healing. See also 2 Corinthians 7:1 for Christians needing deliverance.

Sin is how sickness came into the world so it follows that if a believer sins and refuses all correction from God then He can chasten with sickness. Repentance brings healing.
The healing of the sickness, not the sickness, is for the glory of God. John 9:1-3

Christians can be ill and stay ill from ignorance of the healing Jesus provided in the atonement.

Everyone gets the measure of faith from God but it is the believers responsibility to grow and exercise that faith (Romans 10:17 and Jude 20). If that responsibility is not met healing can be elusive. God can allow it to send that message of our responsibility if all else fails.

They can stay ill because they do not know what Bible faith is Hebrews 11, or how to put it to work James 2:18-26 and Mark 11:24 to receive healing. No one gets ANYTHING from God unless they exercise Bible faith. The first step is coming to God in child like trust being positive of His will in the matter based on His word.

Sickness can simply be a trial to defeat the devil, glorify God, and refine the believer's faithfulness and character (see James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:6-7) which is why there is often a period of time between asking and receiving by faith and the manifestation of the healing (Mark 11:24).
Christians get sick and stay sick for abusing their bodies. Praying over ones food is VERY important for obvious reasons. It keeps us safe from all the "stuff" in it.
Disobedience, unforgiveness, the negative things we say about ourselves, wanting to be sick to use it for control, sympathy, a hobby, ect.; involvement in the occult by Christians i.e. horoscope, ouija board, "white" witchcraft, fortunetelling, magic practices, water witching (water divining), Eastern religion like yoga all can and do result in getting sick and staying sick.
There is a culture or climate of unbelief that is in the churches which hinders those who want to trust Jesus for healing by faith from doing so and hinders the work of healing miracles by the Holy Spirit.
James 5:14-15 requires the elders to pray the prayer of faith to see the sick healed. If they are not healed then the elders did not meet their responsibility. God did not fail. They did. It is the responsibility for the sick to call for them as their first resort for healing and after that prayer their only resort.
All these reasons for failing to receive healing are given in the Bible. We have had to deal with many of them in our own lives and in the lives of the numerous people we have ministered healing/deliverance to. After the issues were resolved by direction of the Holy Spirit, prayer, fasting and seeking God in His word healing came. Some sadly were not resolved, often because of pride.

Lesjude,

What can we agree on?

1. A believer is someone who is born again. One who believes all basic Christian doctrines of who Jesus - (God come in the flesh, raised from the dead, etc.) and is indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

2. Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


3. Romans 5:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

4. 2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (I didn't BOLD this it just copied over that way, sorry)

5. Definition of grace being - GK charis - the free, unmerited favor of God toward people who don't deserve it

I'm sure we can agree that the scriptures are true and that the definition of grace is an accurate one.

There are many things that I agree with you on about healing and what God says about it, however there are few things that I would like to have a discussion about.

 

[lesjude]

Lesjude,

What can we agree on?

1. A believer is someone who is born again. One who believes all basic Christian doctrines of who Jesus - (God come in the flesh, raised from the dead, etc.) and is indwelled by the Holy Spirit?

Salvation is a walk of obedience by grace through faith not to be saved but because one is saved. John 14:15, John 14:21. John 14:23-24. Those acts of obedience include the two things in Acts 19:1-6. See James 2:14-26

2. Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10

New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

3. Romans 5:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Read Romans 6:1-14 for why water baptism by immersion is a fundamental act of obedience a believer will do not to be saved but because he is.

4. 2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (I didn't BOLD this it just copied over that way, sorry)

I am assuming you believe Jesus was not a sinner on the cross but a sinless offering as our substitute. WOF believes Jesus became a sinner on the cross, did not complete the atonement on the cross but suffered for 3 days at the hands of Satan and had to be "born again" HERESY!!

5. Definition of grace being - GK charis - the free, unmerited favor of God toward people who don't deserve it

Only the predestined elect receive it.

I'm sure we can agree that the scriptures are true and that the definition of grace is an accurate one.

Yes

There are many things that I agree with you on about healing and what God says about it, however there are few things that I would like to have a discussion about.

If you believe what WOF believes about the atonement in #4 I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[Deborah13]

If you believe what WOF believes about the atonement in #4 I have nothing more to say to you.

Excuse me but I'm not WoF so I don't know what they believe or what you interpret they believe.
I don't believe things like hang a picture of what you want on the wall and Claim it, if that's what your talking about.
But I do believe what the Bible defines as faith, including for healing.

What do you believe this scripture says? Or don't you wish to discuss the interpretation of scripture at all. Do you Just want people to accept what you say without discuss?

 

[lesjude]

Excuse me but I'm not WoF so I don't know what they believe or what you interpret they believe.
I don't believe things like hang a picture of what you want on the wall and Claim it, if that's what your talking about.

I clearly explained what they believe on the atonement and said if you believe the same we have no more to discuss. Please read what I post and if you do not understand ask questions. You will save us both unnecessary key strokes.

But I do believe what the Bible defines as faith, including for healing.
What do you believe this scripture says? Or don't you wish to discuss the interpretation of scripture at all. Do you Just want people to accept what you say without discuss?

I clearly posted on each point and scripture you gave. You asked what I believed on each of your statements and I told you. You can continue the discussion or not. Your call.

 

[Deborah13]

I clearly posted on each point and scripture you gave. You asked what I believed on each of your statements and I told you. You can continue the discussion or not. Your call.I am assuming you believe Jesus was not a sinner on the cross but a sinless offering as our substitute. WOF believes Jesus became a sinner on the cross, did not complete the atonement on the cross but suffered for 3 days at the hands of Satan and had to be "born again" HERESY!!

Yikes, NO I do not believe that, yuke!

I believe we are only predistend elect are those who God knows through His foreknowledge of those who will receive. I believe this opportunity is given to each person by the drawing of the Holy Spirit who convicts of the world of sin because they do not believe on Him. They may accept or reject. I believe in free will.

 

[Vanguard]

Do I need to step in and tear it apart with contextual Scripture, or just call it drivel and stay out?

 

[Gordon]

I would like to hear your view vanguard. I am trying to determine if this is what scripture teaches in regards to relying on God alone. No need for this to get ugly though.

 

[Vanguard]

I would like to hear your view vanguard. I am trying to determine if this is what scripture teaches in regards to relying on God alone. No need for this to get ugly though.

I'll keep it civil...but factual with everything referenced and in context. Heading to bed right now. I'll break it down tomorrow.