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Why did God create humans with the freewill to sin only to re-create glorified humans without the ability to sin?

chessman said:
Then why not create Eden without any deception in it?
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Because that would not be a faithful, fair, and true representation of reality. God is Faithful and True, so creation had to be also, otherwise it would misrepresent Him.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil doesn't represent deception, nor does it represent "knowledge" the way we use the word today. It represents evil, confined to a tiny speck of existence, in a dormant state.

Our reborn nature intuitively knows this is how our world should be, and we groan for it to be so. We also groan (in a different sense) when we 'open Pandora's box' via sin.

This evil will remain in sight, as long as we live in these bodies. For that potential to be removed in the future escapes the comprehension of our natural minds, but it is revealed to us by the Spirit ...
 
I didnt read all the posts, but I assume humans know what happened to the angels who fell, so thats a real good deterent.
 
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There was war in heaven. Now it's on earth. The new earth will be free from war as heaven is now.
 
Razeontherock said:
The reason we have widespread violence now is the loss of exactly this deterrent value.
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Respectfully, that's like saying people are violent because there's no fear of punishment. And that is indicative of a reasoning that proposes that it's wrong to steal from others because you'll go to jail, which in reality is not why it's wrong to steal.

Believe it or not, the reason why people are violent against one another, is because they have a false image of god which corrupts their reasoning. The use of violence is oftentimes a means of enforcing those values that can only be manifested through a Holy Image of God. Therefore the person who is possessed of God's Spirit would not steal, because they love others as themselves and therefore it makes no sense to steal.
 
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Stealing and violence are not synonyms. Violence by Professors, and by their students who are encouraged by their Professors to be violent, is in no way connected to anyone trying to promote a healthy set of values.

What you allude to can certainly happen and sadly Church history is riddled with it, but the current US epidemic in the US has a different cause. And yes, such poor behavior being reinforced rather than punished absolutely fuels the fire.
 
Razeontherock said:
Stealing and violence are not synonyms.
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I would tend to agree, but even though murder is not exactly stealing, it does steal someone's life from them. I therefore also realize that violence can indeed steal from other people in some aspect.
Violence by Professors, and by their students who are encouraged by their Professors to be violent, is in no way connected to anyone trying to promote a healthy set of values.
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You need to qualify the semantics of what you're saying since good and bad connotations reverse according to one's perspective.

What you allude to can certainly happen and sadly Church history is riddled with it, but the current US epidemic in the US has a different cause. And yes, such poor behavior being reinforced rather than punished absolutely fuels the fire.
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I'm sorry, but I cannot be sure to what you are referring to when you say "epidemic", other than perhaps professors telling their students to use violence. And again, what appears as poor behavior by some, is probably considered a valid means of deterrent against some other perceived poor behavior that is seen as being condoned. Either way, the initial impetus is always the same, there is a deceiver at work in mankind playing the ends against the middle, for which reason the enlightened can understand why we must turn the other cheek and return good for evil.
 
JohnDB said:
Here's the "cleaned up" question.
If God was complete and not lonely and doesn't need mankind then why did He bother with us to begin with?

Because God is good.
If you are capable of something but have never done it...once you Know about it you are itching to try it.

Part of goodness is the ability to forgive. But God had no one to forgive. God is incapable of error. So that is why we exist.
But make no mistake in thinking that God needs anyone to help him exercise this. He has plenty of people already...and some really bad guys that asked for forgiveness already. We get to go along for the ride but the need isn't there.
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I respectfully disagree.

I know that you are upper echelon here but you have it wrong.
You're statement about God being incapable of wrong and we exist is soooo wrong.
 
Garion said:
I respectfully disagree.

I know that you are upper echelon here but you have it wrong.
You're statement about God being incapable of wrong and we exist is soooo wrong.
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I'm not sure what JohnDB is trying to say, so I can't say that I agree with him, but I am curious as to why you would imply that God is capable of being wrong.
 
childeye said:
I'm not sure what JohnDB is trying to say, so I can't say that I agree with him, but I am curious as to why you would imply that God is capable of being wrong.
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Everyday world life would be proof in most minds... And most minds don't believe so that's why they do what they do.
 
Garion said:
Everyday world life would be proof in most minds... And most minds don't believe so that's why they do what they do.
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This world doesn't represent God, it represents the absence of God which is why it is under darkness. 2 Corinthians 4:4. But again, how is God capable of wrong? What if He uses evil unto His own perfect ends?
 
Garion said:
So I live in darkness even though I've given my life to God?
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No, if you believe in the Christ, then you are not of this world. But what did God do wrong if He has allowed what is evil to serve His own perfect ends? (See the prodigal son).
 
Garion said:
Please dumb it down
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There is a greater purpose being served by introducing the Light, (Christ), into a world of darkness. For example, no one can give value to a flashlight that is turned on under the midday sun, for it can only be truly appreciated when it shines in the midst of darkness.
2 Corinthians 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

This is why God is not wrong even though this world is wicked.
 
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