Why did God Create Us With Freedom of Choice?

[savedbygrace57]

Why did God Create Us With Freedom of Choice?

God did not Create anyone with the freedom of Choice, for none are not under His Sovereign Control to do whatever He purposed to mbe done. God Created Adam accountable to Him, and gave him a command not to do something, but God had already determined that Adam should die for disobedience because this orld was Created for an Redemptive Purpose centered in The Death of Christ for sin !

 

[Osgiliath]

God did not Create anyone with the freedom of Choice, for none are not under His Sovereign Control to do whatever He purposed to mbe done. God Created Adam accountable to Him, and gave him a command not to do something, but God had already determined that Adam should die for disobedience because this orld was Created for an Redemptive Purpose centered in The Death of Christ for sin !

I agree with you as far as God's total sovereignty is concerned. However, what then is the ultimate fate of these "expendable people" whom God did not choose to be redeemed? Did God bring them into existence for the sole purpose of torturing them forever.... or annihilating them?

All the same; be it Calvinism or Arminianism, all of the doctrines of Babylon are primitive and savage, which is probably why our culture can't get enough of them.

 

[savedbygrace57]

osg

However, what then is the ultimate fate of these "expendable people"
whom God did not choose to be redeemed?

Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Agape]

God did not Create anyone with the freedom of Choice, for none are not under His Sovereign Control to do whatever He purposed to mbe done. God Created Adam accountable to Him, and gave him a command not to do something, but God had already determined that Adam should die for disobedience because this orld was Created for an Redemptive Purpose centered in The Death of Christ for sin !

You're not suggesting that God ordained Adam's sin, are you?
Did God determine Adam would die for disobedience before or after he sinned?

 

[WIP]

Especially when you're threatened to be burned alive forever if you do not 'freely' 'choose' to 'love' Jesus.


If your "choice" is affected by such a threat that is beyond your control, is your choice really "free?" Or is that threat outside your control "the cause" of your so-called "free choice?"

I don't really see it this way exactly. The way I see it, mankind died with Adam (Gen. 2:17. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.). Our death is a given and is what awaits us unless we choose life in Jesus Christ. The only choice we can make is whether or not to accept Christ and live.

 

[Deborah13]

I think Bible explains why Bad things happen to good people or vice versa. I see the core message of Bible is Love and John clearly says God is Love.Prerequisite for Love is unlimited freedom or unconditional choice and no onecan argue with that. Grace to some extent is free choice with no binding. The problem with the free will is that it also allows evil things. It appears God had to restrain himself by not getting even with the evil; the very act wouldhave killed freedom. As we know Freedom is expensive but well worth it. God knew it well.

I agree with this.

 

[Aloysium]

one way of understanding is perhaps:

God made us in His image . . . we have a finite ability to create
we can bring good things or bad things into the world
doing good implies following God's will and acting in love, which is God
this is difficult because deep in mankind, is a selfish willfulness and ignorance

the battle is not so much between God and Satan as it is within us
who, what do we want to become? which will we choose?

i would imagine that God did not know how we would choose until He actually created us
(He is not the God of "could-be's", but of all creation)
however, man's sin enabled Him to manifest His glory through Jesus Christ

and we have a choice:
participating in His love and glory or
settling for our transient petty desires

 

[enlightened]

I don't really see it this way exactly. The way I see it, mankind died with Adam (Gen. 2:17. But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.). Our death is a given and is what awaits us unless we choose life in Jesus Christ. The only choice we can make is whether or not to accept Christ and live.

The death GOD promised Adam was a spiritual death because Adam lost his spirit the moment he sinned, whereby he lost the Likeness of the LORD he was created after, which is light (1Jn1:9). And it is for this reason that he and Eve could now see each others nakedness.

I do not believe GOD took Adam's physical life for eating the forbidden fruit; rather, i think GOD took Adam's life because he lied to Eve from the very Beginning, and thereby caused her to sin, which, in essence was murder.
Killing someone for eating fruit seems to be a very unjust act.

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

You're not suggesting that God ordained Adam's sin, are you?
Did God determine Adam would die for disobedience before or after he sinned?

Of course God ordained Adam's Sin, for this Earth was Created for a Redemptive Purpose. I go into details here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42962&highlight=

 

[Deborah13]

can man generate some good work of his own accord?

The OP assumes that God created us with "freedom of choice." Does this also assume that the doctrine that we are totally under the power of sin (total depravity) is false? If we are not totally under the sway of our sin nature, then why does Romans say we "cannot" please God? "Rom 8:8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

What do you mean by the term "free will?" and what is the difference between "Free will" and the term choice?

Choices are the decisions we make by our own free will.
We do see that people who are not saved do many good things. Feed the hungry, love their spouse and family, etc.
Then why can they not please God?
I think this is because they don't know Him so He does not know them. They are not His children, they have not accepted Jesus, therefore the things that they do they do for themselves as self-righteous acts. They are not doing them from a position of right standing with God.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Deborah13]

My thoughts are....there will be no rebellion from us because we will have been completely sanctified and have the perfect mind of Christ. We will " know even as we are known."

 

[Deborah13]

Especially when you're threatened to be burned alive forever if you do not 'freely' 'choose' to 'love' Jesus.


If your "choice" is affected by such a threat that is beyond your control, is your choice really "free?" Or is that threat outside your control "the cause" of your so-called "free choice?"

I don't believe a person can be truly saved if the only reason they "accept Christ" is because of this threat. To be saved one must recognize the love God has for them which He proved by giving His son for our redemption. If they do not come to this knowledge they will not be able to love God or their neighbor.

A child who is raised in an abusive home under the law of the parent but without love will eventually rebel. They will give up, leave, and many never return.

I had a friend insist that I should read a book written by a man who said he had a vision of hell. Why I asked. They thought I didn't have a healthy fear of hell. My answer was I don't need to know anymore than that I would be separated of God's love. I do my best to please Him because He really loves me not out of fear of what He could do to me if He so choose. I trust Him.

 

[Agape]

agape

Of course God ordained Adam's Sin, for this Earth was Created for a Redemptive Purpose. I go into details here:

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=42962&highlight=

No thanks! I've read enough on that gross and inexcusable caricature of the doctrine of predestination.

Scriptura Scripturae interpres. God did not ordain Adam's sin according to Genesis 6:6.
If you can reconcile your statement with that scripture, let me know.

Before the foundation of the world God chose certain people to be His children in order that He would be glorified (see Ephesians 1:4). It does not say that God chose people to damnation or predestined people to wrath. http://www.gotquestions.org/double-predestination.html​

 

[huntm282]

The battle between god and satan has already been decided in that satan fell prior to adam and eve. Now time is a matter of our battle with our own sinful flesh in that our decision to accept christ in full gives us instant victory as long as we hold our faith with him satan can only tempt but never defeat. Thank the lord for that and God bless.

 

[Grazer]

Mario Sepulveda. "I was with God and I was with the devil. They fought over me but God won. I think I had extraordinary luck."

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

No thanks!

Suite yourself !

God did not ordain Adam's sin according to Genesis
6:6.

Gen 6:6 does not read that God did not ordain adams sin !

 

[WIP]

The death GOD promised Adam was a spiritual death because Adam lost his spirit the moment he sinned, whereby he lost the Likeness of the LORD he was created after, which is light (1Jn1:9). And it is for this reason that he and Eve could now see each others nakedness.

I do not believe GOD took Adam's physical life for eating the forbidden fruit; rather, i think GOD took Adam's life because he lied to Eve from the very Beginning, and thereby caused her to sin, which, in essence was murder.
Killing someone for eating fruit seems to be a very unjust act.

I think you may have misunderstood me a little. The death I spoke of is our spiritual death (separation from God). We are under this curse unless we accept the payment made by our Lord, the Christ, Jesus. What I'm trying to say is that we don't choose death. We are already dead. But, through Christ, we can choose life.

 

[mondar]

Choices are the decisions we make by our own free will.
We do see that people who are not saved do many good things. Feed the hungry, love their spouse and family, etc.
Then why can they not please God?
I think this is because they don't know Him so He does not know them. They are not His children, they have not accepted Jesus, therefore the things that they do they do for themselves as self-righteous acts. They are not doing them from a position of right standing with God.

Just my thoughts.

Hello Deborah13,
Why do you add the number 13?

In any case, I think we agree. Mans works are filthy rags. This does not mean we are so evil that we kill everyone we come across. In the fall of man, we did not become so exceedingly evil, that mothers are incapable of loving their children. We, as fallen men are not as evil as we could be, but rather evil is a part of every part of our being. We corrupt our emotions and use them to be angry, and to hurt those we love. We corrupt our thinking and set up our own idols as in Romans 1. We corrupt our will by choosing to rebel against God. So then we are not as evil as we could be, but rather evil is in every part of our being. So then, even our love for our children is not perfect and pure enough to please God.

Of course as you also say, those who are of faith, those who trust in Christ for salvation, they are able to please God by their faith.
Heb 11:6 and without faith it is impossible to be well-pleasing unto him; for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that seek after him.
In Hebrews, pleasing God with works that come from faith is repeated over and over in that Chapter. One of the things I note about the works mentioned in Hebrews, is that they all have to do with works done because of Gods promises. It seems as if when we live in light of the promises of God, then those works are pleasing. Those works honor God and his word.

Certainly when a pagan woman loves her children, it is not related to works which are done in light of God and his promises. They do not bring God glory, but as you alluded to, they bring man glory.

Concerning mans "free will..." If our sin nature then corrupts our will, we then are free to choose whatever we want, but we will always want sin and rebellion. So then we can choose good, but we will never want to make that choice. It would be much like the cow I mentioned earlier. The cow can choose to eat fetid meat, but he will always desire the hay and soy beans. Why? Because it is his nature to choose such food.

What God does, then, is to change our nature. This is called regeneration. In the scripture, it is called the new birth. When God changes our nature, he changes what we want. After regeneration, we will want Christ. John 10 tells us that those sheep who are Christs will hear his voice. And they will follow him.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 When he hath put forth all his own, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Well, its good to talk to you. Later.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

God did not Create anyone with the freedom of Choice, for none are not under His Sovereign Control to do whatever He purposed to mbe done. God Created Adam accountable to Him, and gave him a command not to do something, but God had already determined that Adam should die for disobedience because this orld was Created for an Redemptive Purpose centered in The Death of Christ for sin !

Really?
No free will/
My oh my!