Bible Study Why did Jesus need to be Baptized ?

[greyfeather]

Why was Jesus baptized, he was without sin , but when he came to Jhon he said this. Matthew 3:13-15 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?†15 ( But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.â€Â) Then he allowed Him." Why do you think he had to be baptized? Since many think it is not nessasary for us to be baptized.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[James1979]

Jesus had to be baptized because it was a requirement of the law for a priest to cleanse himself with water before he can officially be qualified to declare, preach, publish the word of God to the people. If you read the old testament it shows what God wanted them to do before he sent them out. Its similiar in our situation as before we are saved, God has not sent us to do his work to preach the whole counsel of God to our neighbors. Once God saves us, cleanse with his word and give us a new heart/spirit then we are acceptable to God to do his will, preach the gospel. Read Exdous 30 slowly and carefully when God speaks to Moses about Aaron and his sons.

 

[wavy]

that's interesting, james, i will consider that.

 

[greyfeather]

Ok , but since God and Jesus are one personage why whould God need baptizim to teach ? Thats one big problem I have , I have been taught that God himself was in fact Jesus in human form , so this adds to my confusion. Also not to go off topic , but how could the devil tempt Jesus since Im sure that satan knew who he was .?



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Hello:

It is not Christ who needed to be baptized in the waters of purification, it was the waters that needed to be baptized by His holy body. Note that in the account of the Baptism, the Holy Spirit descended like a dove (peace). Also compare this with the Genesis account o creation, where the Spirit of God brooded over the deep (waters). Christ's baptism was the beginning of the recreation of the earth, the salvation of the cosmos.

John was rght- he needed to be baptized by Christ- and he was, for He stood in the same water that the Son of God descended into and purified from the fall of Adam.

It was not only man's spirit that was marred by Adam's fall, it was creation itself. This is why the entire creation "groans with anticipattion of the revelation of the sons of God."

 

[wavy]

That's interesting too, orthodox, but it seems a little too abstract, not particularly supported by scripture, and just the product of some one's imagination.

Not to be mean or offensive. Really, it's just that seems to get into to too much mysticism, when really, the scriptures don't seem to go down that path.

 

[greyfeather]

Orthodox Christian,

I don't realy understand what you have said about the waters because I have never read this in the Bible. Now as for Jhon the Baptise he had the Holy Spirit in him from his mothers womb LUKE 1:15, so since he did then Jesus whould have likewise right ?



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[stovebolts]

Greyfeather and Wavy,
As this does not directly address the subject matter, it does show how symbolism is in fact a part of scripture in many areas.
The only thing that comes to mind on how to explain... is when Paul (in 1st Cor. tells us of Isaac and Ishmael... The Promise and the Law and how her name, is the great mountain.
My friends, I urge you to read 1st Cor remembering all the time that Moses hid the Glory of God that shone upon his face by a veil.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthodox Christian,

I don't realy understand what you have said about the waters because I have never read this in the Bible. Now as for Jhon the Baptise he had the Holy Spirit in him from his mothers womb LUKE 1:15, so since he did then Jesus whould have likewise right ?



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

You've never read "Trinity" in the bible either, but it evident from the whole counsel of scripture.

Now ask yourself this: If the ground around the burning bush was holy, was not the water around Christ holy?

And if the first act of creation was the releasing of the Word into the waters (Genesis 1), then what would releasing the Word again into the waters do?

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."

Now Wavy has contended that this understanding of Christ's baptism is "mystical," and that the bible doesn't go there.

Yeah, except the entire book of Revelation, Daniel, and Ezekiel, not to mention the remaining prophetic scriptures that I shall not name. Christianity itself is a mystical understanding of the Hebrew scriptures, as any Jew will point out- and argue against.

But if you find it problematic to understand that the Pure One purifies that which He enters, then consider this: The Baptism of Christ was the beginning of His being revealed to the world
"Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world"
"This is my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased...listen to Him."

 

[thessalonian]

Thank you for that insight OC. I have heard about the purification of the water at Christ's baptism, but never expressed that eloquently. (don't let it go to your head). It is sad that the reformation left great spiritual understandings of scripture like this behind for the individualist centered doctrine of sola scriptura where there is little chance of learning such deep mysteries as your Orthodox and my Catholic faith have carried on. Very sad.

Blessings

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Thank you for that insight OC. I have heard about the purification of the water at Christ's baptism, but never expressed that eloquently. (don't let it go to your head). It is sad that the reformation left great spiritual understandings of scripture like this behind for the individualist centered doctrine of sola scriptura where there is little chance of learning such deep mysteries as your Orthodox and my Catholic faith have carried on. Very sad.

Blessings

Thanks Thess- you have stated quite succinctly the poblem that abandoning holy tradition has posed for Protestants. Those who have great insight and revelation become cults of personality for them. The beauty of our holy tradition is that our revelations cannot go to our head, so to speak, because we know that it is those who have gone before us who have given into our bosom, as it were, the oracles of God.

 

[thessalonian]

Thank you for that insight OC. I have heard about the purification of the water at Christ's baptism, but never expressed that eloquently. (don't let it go to your head). It is sad that the reformation left great spiritual understandings of scripture like this behind for the individualist centered doctrine of sola scriptura where there is little chance of learning such deep mysteries as your Orthodox and my Catholic faith have carried on. Very sad.

Blessings

Thanks Thess- you have stated quite succinctly the poblem that abandoning holy tradition has posed for Protestants. Those who have great insight and revelation become cults of personality for them. The beauty of our holy tradition is that our revelations cannot go to our head, so to speak, because we know that it is those who gave gone before us who have given into our bosom, as it were, the oracles of God.

Amen.

 

[Imagican]

greyfeather,

What does the scripture say without 'reading' anything 'into' it? Christ's ministry began with His Baptism. Jesus was Baptised in order to 'receive' the Spirit of God. Jesus was the 'Son of God', NOT GOD THE SON. Read it for yourself and you will plainly see that it's not YOU that are confused by the Word, but the confusing doctrine that others would teach you.

The Word plainly states that upon Jesus' Baptism that the Spirit of God descended upon Him like a dove. And not only this, but goes on to state that at that moment a 'voice' from heaven called out that "This is MY SON in whom I am well pleased".

Huh? God telling himself that He is pleased with Himself? Not likely. Only in someones twisted imagination.

Christ needed to be Baptised for the same purpose that we too must be Baptised; in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Although I don't believe that the symbolism of water is necessary to be Baptised in the Spirit, at the time, before the death of Christ, this was the symbolic ritual that was taught and carried over by some to this day.

And greyfeather, If you are curious about some of the history of 'trinity', read through 'Trinity' Biblically sound or Catholic baggage. There is much offered by both sides, but it is pretty in depth and a good place to find an understanding of it one way or the other.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

greyfeather,

What does the scripture say without 'reading' anything 'into' it?
Christ's ministry began with His Baptism. Jesus was Baptised in order to 'receive' the Spirit of God. Jesus was the 'Son of God', NOT GOD THE SON. Read it for yourself and you will plainly see that it's not YOU that are confused by the Word, but the confusing doctrine that others would teach you.
Why should anyone believe that it is not you who is indeed introducing a confusing doctrine?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Was with, and was. These two existential declarations contradict your word play/skullduggery.

The Word plainly states that upon Jesus' Baptism that the Spirit of God descended upon Him like a dove. And not only this, but goes on to state that at that moment a 'voice' from heaven called out that "This is MY SON in whom I am well pleased".

Huh? God telling himself that He is pleased with Himself? Not likely. Only in someones twisted imagination.
As it is written
Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom [is] a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Speaking to God about His God- right there in Psalm 45, wayyyyy before the time of Christ, aeons before the changes you fallaciously assert were wrought by the "Catholics."

Christ needed to be Baptised for the same purpose that we too must be Baptised; in order to receive the Holy Spirit. Although I don't believe that the symbolism of water is necessary to be Baptised in the Spirit, at the time, before the death of Christ, this was the symbolic ritual that was taught and carried over by some to this day.
So until the time of His baptism, He had not the Holy Spirit. That's a subject for another thread, to be sure. I wonder what He did up until the time He was filled with the Spirit... you know, back in the days before Avraham...as the as-yet-not-incarnated Logos awaited the chance to become Spirit-filled. You know, in those aeons before He spoke everything into existence. "Before Abraham was, I am ...waiting to be Spirit-filled."
Just doesn't read right, now does it?

And greyfeather, If you are curious about some of the history of 'trinity', read through 'Trinity' Biblically sound or Catholic baggage. There is much offered by both sides, but it is pretty in depth and a good place to find an understanding of it one way or the other.
And thus we come to the point, which would seem to be that you spoke up on this thread toward the purpose of spamming the anti-Trinity thread.

 

[greyfeather]

Imagician,

See there is a problem with what you have said , if God and Jesus are not one then what was God reffering to in Isaiah when he spoke of himself and the servent he chose. In verse 10 to me it looks as if he is saying that the servant is also refering to he himself. I will put the passages in . I have had others say it means something quite different , that God is saying. Read it and see what you think God means in these verse's.

9Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

12I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

13Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[greyfeather]

Orthodox Christian,

I have to agree that Jesus had the Holy Spirt , I mean as I have pointed out Jhon the baptise who was Jesus's cousin was given the Holy Spirit at birth or from his mothers womb. LUKE1:15 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Orthodox Christian,

I have to agree that Jesus had the Holy Spirt , I mean as I have pointed out Jhon the baptise who was Jesus's cousin was given the Holy Spirit at birth or from his mothers womb. LUKE1:15 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.


Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

Excellent point.

Now I wonder, Imagican, if John was filled with the Holy Spirit from the beginning of his life, but Jesus wasn't, why it isn't John the Forerunner that was caled Messiah?

And how does this relate to the baptism story, in your opinion.

 

[Brother Ian]

Jesus was baptised as an example for us. He did not need to be declared holy for He is holy. He defines holiness.

 

[James1979]

Jesus had to be baptized because that was required by God's law before officially taking on the role of a high priest.

 

[greyfeather]

James1979,

Your right about the priest thing I found it in Hebrews 4:15, I also think Jesus's baptism was an example to us of what we should do. He assuredly didn't need repentence as he never sinned. This is why we need to also follow his example.



blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.